Chord Electronics - Blu Mk. 2 - The Official Thread
Mar 15, 2018 at 5:57 AM Post #2,956 of 4,904
Roy, you've got both a COLOR and a USER tag in your posting that's causing the formatting problems. Right at the start of the text they appear as a pair: color= and user=. At the very end of the text they appear again as /user and /color. Delete the whole of these at both ends, including the square brackets that hold these tags. The color tag is relatively harmless, but the user tag is creating the clickable link.


In my experiments with ferrites I've found that "not enough" of them can result in a sound quality that isn't harsh, bright or fatiguing, but has a kind of hyper-realism to it. It's almost like a sheen of explicitness has been added and can be heard as increased presence, air, hyper-detail and a sort of etched three-dimensionality that makes singers/instruments have a kind of "stand out" effect, separating them from the rest of the ambience in the recording.

It's very pleasing in the short term, but from time to time this presentational style will draw attention to itself as an effect.

A Chord DAC always does the same thing when you feed it with less RF: it sounds darker, the soundstage expands and transients get faster.

So when you hear these things you know it's working better.

It will often sound quieter, too. The quietest sounding of two systems is often a big clue as to which is working better. When one system urges you to turn it up louder, that's the one you want. Distortions from the lesser system, even when the volume control hasn't been changed, are causing a kind of low-level confusion which is heard as an unexplainable loudness, as if it were a minor irritant, not overtly perceptible but subtly wrong all the same.


It'll only take a few weeks to adjust.

Now playing: Radiohead - Dollars and Cents
I worked for an engineering manager years ago who had previously worked on video he said when they did their testing most people preferred the Video that they had added small amounts of noise to! Perhaps our senses are conditioned to like noise and distortions? I guess we should verify listening with corroborating measurements.
 
Mar 15, 2018 at 6:01 AM Post #2,957 of 4,904
Exactly what I’m thinking. I have always trusted my own ears as the only ones that count. If you trust the ears of other people more than your own, you run the risk of being very disappointed.
I’d trust the guy who can back up his listening with competent measurements. Not that your ear isn’t a state of the art microphone and your brain isn’t a state of the art spectrum analyzer but you have to calibrate your hearing to test measurements to be accurate.
 
Mar 15, 2018 at 6:06 AM Post #2,958 of 4,904
I’d trust the guy who can back up his listening with competent measurements. Not that your ear isn’t a state of the art microphone and your brain isn’t a state of the art spectrum analyzer but you have to calibrate your hearing to test measurements to be accurate.

Very true, but you have to live with and like the results. And to be clear, my original comment wasn’t really relating to Rob’s ears at all, more to the general situation regarding different people hearing different things anyway. You are unlikely to get absolute consensus on some of these things, so it’s arguably better to go with your own preference because you have to live with it.

I’d love a measuring device that can identify and measure the sort of things we’ve been discussing, but I doubt that it exists.
 
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Mar 15, 2018 at 6:23 AM Post #2,960 of 4,904
Very true, but you have to live with and like the results. And to be clear, my original comment wasn’t really relating to Rob’s ears at all, more to the general situation regarding different people hearing different things anyway. You are unlikely to get absolute consensus on some of these things, so it’s arguably better to go with your own preference because you have to live with it.
Understood and my feeling is if this is a hobby you’re welcome to like or dislike anything you want chocolate vanilla strawberry your personal preference. But if you are a designer your metric should be live music. As a speaker designer I have no control over the recording process but I can try as hard as possible to take the signal the recording engineer recorded and place that at your ears as accurately as possible! Overtime I did get good at correlating what I hear and what I measured, but not always, at those times I had to figure out what I was doing wrong in the testing! You are 100% correct about personal perceptions being different. I have blue eyes and prefer German camera lenses to Japanese lenses Orientals with brown eyes generally prefer Japanese lenses, the coatings are slightly different. I never liked the tone of Japanese guitars and pianos preferring American brands sounding more full bodied my Asian friends prefer the Japanese brands.
 
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Mar 15, 2018 at 6:32 AM Post #2,962 of 4,904
Understood and my feeling is if this is a hobby you’re welcome to like or dislike anything you want chocolate vanilla strawberry your personal preference. But if you are a designer your metric should be live music. As a speaker designer I have no control over the recording process but I can try as hard as possible to take the signal the recording engineer recorded and place that at your ears as accurately as possible! Overtime I did get good at correlating what I hear and what I measured, but not always, at those times I had to figure out what I was doing wrong in the testing!

Again, I agree. The point I was trying to make, seemingly not very well, was that people should never be overly swayed or even buy things based upon what other people say - they should listen and judge for themselves.

Fascinating point about camera lenses and eyes by the way. All of my guitars are American, though I do have two Japanese ones.
 
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Mar 15, 2018 at 6:41 AM Post #2,965 of 4,904
Ok, we got there!

I have 15 a side Fair Rites right now and will look further by adding the Wurthes. I know from when I did the exercise first time around with the Canare cables, I added one single ferrite at a time to each cable and there were definitely diminishing returns starting to kick in after the first half dozen, but I did end up having end to end ferrites which was about 16 a side from memory.

And my CA are 1m - I thought I had ordered 1.2m, but it seems not. Perhaps my wallet intervened in the decision. No, I recall now that it was the fact that anything non-standard could not be subject to the 60 day trial period. I never buy anything that I am unable to return if I don’t like it. And certainly not just because you said it was good! :wink:
 
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Mar 15, 2018 at 10:00 AM Post #2,966 of 4,904
......when I first heard the DAVE, my initial impressions were that DAVE was "brighter" than my TotalDac although I attributed this brightness to DAVE's superior detail resolution coming forward. It is this more illuminated detail resolution that caused me to switch to the DAVE.......

I started wondering about this when I got the Blu II - hard to believe that that was almost a year ago now - and, whilst I found the BluDave to be less bright than the Dave, it was in comparing with the CD player that led me to identify issues with my streaming environment - I think I may have I said that before one time!! Yes, we had an additional element to consider courtesy of FPGA’s and ground planes in the cojoining of Blu into Dave, but that has proven relatively easy to address by using ferrites and, imo, the right cables. Each step taken has resulted in my system sounding progressively darker, smoother, less bright with greater depth and a very much deeper but more tightly controlled and strikingly accurate bass. There are more indicators, but I’ll ignore those for the sake of brevity and simply summarise it as seeming like a combination of the strengths of both analogue and digital without many of the weaknesses of either. All of these could be argued to be clear indicators of a progressive eradication of noise and, given that you and I have arrived at similar outcomes, mention of brightness and RF noise generators puzzles me.

My theory was, like you, that the BluDave is so transparent and revealing that I was hearing things that had hitherto not been apparent to me previously but, even then, I only became aware because these things were absent from the CD and so, stood out by comparison. I was never overly keen on the dual BNC connection because, for me, BNC is my least preferred option and I’m sure Rob will improve upon it for nexgen models of M Scaler technology. But whether that is USB or optical or something else entirely, it will only optimise the Blu Dave integration and will not obviate the need for a properly constructed digital streaming environment. I said, back in the days when we used to debate (criticise??) the decision to include the CD transport that an M Scaler version of my old DSX1000 would have been my preferred solution but, even with that, we shall still need to sort out our servers and the streaming side of the coin.
 
Mar 15, 2018 at 10:07 AM Post #2,967 of 4,904
Understood and my feeling is if this is a hobby you’re welcome to like or dislike anything you want chocolate vanilla strawberry your personal preference. But if you are a designer your metric should be live music. As a speaker designer I have no control over the recording process but I can try as hard as possible to take the signal the recording engineer recorded and place that at your ears as accurately as possible! Overtime I did get good at correlating what I hear and what I measured, but not always, at those times I had to figure out what I was doing wrong in the testing! You are 100% correct about personal perceptions being different. I have blue eyes and prefer German camera lenses to Japanese lenses Orientals with brown eyes generally prefer Japanese lenses, the coatings are slightly different. I never liked the tone of Japanese guitars and pianos preferring American brands sounding more full bodied my Asian friends prefer the Japanese brands.
I assume that you’re referring to electric guitars. Regarding pianos, you could be referring to either acoustic or digital pianos or both.

Roy Batty(played by the blond hair, blue eyed German, Rutger Hauer) speaking to a replicant eye designer(played by Asian actor James Hong) in the movie “Blade Runner”:

“If only you could see what I’ve seen through your eyes.”
 
Mar 15, 2018 at 11:56 AM Post #2,969 of 4,904
I assume that you’re referring to electric guitars. Regarding pianos, you could be referring to either acoustic or digital pianos or both.

Roy Batty(played by the blond hair, blue eyed German, Rutger Hauer) speaking to a replicant eye designer(played by Asian actor James Hong) in the movie “Blade Runner”:

“If only you could see what I’ve seen through your eyes.”
Actually both acoustic guitars and acoustic pianos and my asian friends preferences in speakers are less full bodied too
 
Mar 15, 2018 at 12:35 PM Post #2,970 of 4,904
That is what is so difficult about all of this. According to Rob, there is no meter and so his claims are based on his experience. For all the reasons I was drawn to DAVE, I am now being told many of these same qualities that I value represent RF noise when it comes to other components.

I apologize for crashing this thread, as I am not a Chord owner. Although - when these mystery prototypes come to market, who knows - that may change!

I respect Rob immensely, but I really struggle to characterize what we are hearing with the SE plus reference clock chain as RF noise. One of the key characteristics of noise is fatigue. As you and I have discussed on many occasions, Roy, the clock effect is the opposite of fatigue. What Ref 10 quality clocking in the digital chain preceding the DAC gives us is:
  • a bigger (in all dimensions), more holographic image
  • instruments that have body, texture, and a palpable physicality
  • Highly improved clarity and resolution, allowing one to hear far more deeply into the music
  • deeper, yet better articulated bass
  • startlingly more natural voices
  • and a fatigue-free treble.
How can that be RF noise? I am indeed glad that you could demonstrate to Rob that digital sources can at least affect - if not improve, to his ears - the sound quality. Perhaps that will inform his design process going forward.

Parting thought - I hope that some day, digital audio component designers, in general, will start paying the same attention to system clocks in their components (USB, ethernet, mobo) as they do to the data/word clocks. Until then, I don't see the black boxes and spaghetti going away!
 

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