[Jawed]

Roy, you've got both a COLOR and a USER tag in your posting that's causing the formatting problems. Right at the start of the text they appear as a pair: color= and user=. At the very end of the text they appear again as /user and /color. Delete the whole of these at both ends, including the square brackets that hold these tags. The color tag is relatively harmless, but the user tag is creating the clickable link.

As we compared USB cables [...] It's no surprise that I found my Clarity Cables Natural USB to be my favorite USB cable and it is a cable I believe I could consistently pick out in a blind test. [...] It presents the most air and space while also layering detail better than any cable I have compared it to and yet, despite it's detail resolution, I find no harshness at all with this cable. It was also the most neutral sounding of all the cables to my ears. [...] It was the collective opinion of these three (Jay, Jim, and myself) that Rob's cheap USB cable came in last place. Speaking only for myself, Rob's cheap USB cable sounded dull and flat and the least engaging of the lot. Rob's opinion was different from the group. He felt his cheap USB cable sounded best to his ears and "dull" is how things can sound in the absence of RF noise. He described my Clarity Cables Natural USB cable as an "RF noise generator" and he thought it sounded the worst of the lot.

In my experiments with ferrites I've found that "not enough" of them can result in a sound quality that isn't harsh, bright or fatiguing, but has a kind of hyper-realism to it. It's almost like a sheen of explicitness has been added and can be heard as increased presence, air, hyper-detail and a sort of etched three-dimensionality that makes singers/instruments have a kind of "stand out" effect, separating them from the rest of the ambience in the recording.

It's very pleasing in the short term, but from time to time this presentational style will draw attention to itself as an effect.

A Chord DAC always does the same thing when you feed it with less RF: it sounds darker, the soundstage expands and transients get faster.

So when you hear these things you know it's working better.

It will often sound quieter, too. The quietest sounding of two systems is often a big clue as to which is working better. When one system urges you to turn it up louder, that's the one you want. Distortions from the lesser system, even when the volume control hasn't been changed, are causing a kind of low-level confusion which is heard as an unexplainable loudness, as if it were a minor irritant, not overtly perceptible but subtly wrong all the same.

At the same time, it is my ears and my sensitivities that I have to live with and so should I now subject myself to a sound that is not my preference? [...] Perhaps, over time, my definition of "better" will change and I will learn to hear things as Rob hears them.

It'll only take a few weeks to adjust.

Now playing: Radiohead - Dollars and Cents

 

[Beolab]

To be clear, we are referring to this https://www.cleareraudio.com/products/silver-line-optimus-75-reference-interconnect with the Oyaide SLSB BNCs?

Yes

 

[Beolab]

@romaz

I find this post very interesting to read as an ending almost of many questions and now when you knowing more on how Rob listen to a sound which differentiates clearly from the most of us in here if you and Jay represents the HiFi entusiasts side.
I think this is because the -45 years side are almost bourn and raised with RF noise, so some noise to us is = Air and resolution maybe.
It is also alot cheaper to go with Robś rout ( less is more) when it comes to equipment because of less interference and RF arial radiation potential.

When we are on the subject on ferrite magnets, what happend to your favourite magnetic brand High Fidelity Cables? Wouldn't that be the perfect pick to use between Dave and Blu II , have you tested it out?

Then i dont see why you have to say farewell for good, i think people perfectly understand if you just show up now and then when you got time instead.

 

[romaz]

Hi Roy,

I notice you didn’t mention clocks in your description of the listening tests. You and I have gone quite far down that path, and have heard the results. As I recall from our conversation with Rob at RMAF, he was skeptical, but willing to listen.

Your system is probably one of the best setups with clock optimizations. Based on your listening sessions, were you able to demonstrate to him the benefit of better system clocks? Is he convinced?

Hi Rajiv, while I didn't mention it, paired with the Zenith SE was my tX-USBultra powered by my Paul Hynes SR7. We had no discussion regarding clocks specifically as that is a taboo subject with Rob but he did get a chance to hear the impact of clocking with the Zenith SE. As stated, he felt the Zenith SE (and the tX-USBultra) was an RF noise generator.

 

[Triode User]

Hi Rajiv, while I didn't mention it, paired with the Zenith SE was my tX-USBultra powered by my Paul Hynes SR7. We had no discussion regarding clocks specifically as that is a taboo subject with Rob but he did get a chance to hear the impact of clocking with the Zenith SE. As stated, he felt the Zenith SE (and the tX-USBultra) was an RF noise generator.

On the subject of RF generation by components, is there a detector / meter that can be plugged into the component to check RF generation so that we don't have to use phrases such as 'felt it was an RF noise generator'?

 

[romaz]

And do you still think that your Habst BNC cables sound better than any number of ferrites on the standard cable?

EDIT: I see that you've already answered this. Question withdrawn.

I will answer anyway to offer some elaboration. I do like the sound of the 2m cable with ferrites, however, I have a preference for the sound of my Habst cables for both tonal and resolution reasons. I would be interested to hear for myself the Clearer Audio BNCs that both Marc and Malc have but at this time, I have decided it's time to get off the merry-go-round and just enjoy what I have.

 

[romaz]

@romaz

I find this post very interesting to read as an ending almost of many questions and now when you knowing more on how Rob listen to a sound which differentiates clearly from the most of us in here if you and Jay represents the HiFi entusiasts side.
I think this is because the -45 years side are almost bourn and raised with RF noise, so some noise to us is = Air and resolution maybe.
It is also alot cheaper to go with Robś rout ( less is more) when it comes to equipment because of less interference and RF arial radiation potential.

When we are on the subject on ferrite magnets, what happend to your favourite magnetic brand High Fidelity Cables? Wouldn't that be the perfect pick to use between Dave and Blu II , have you tested it out?

Then i dont see why you have to say farewell for good, i think people perfectly understand if you just show up now and then when you got time instead.

Thanks, Fredrik. Your theories are interesting.

I use High Fidelity Cables everywhere that I can and during our listening sessions, all mains cables, analog interconnects and speaker cables were by HFC although we did also listen to the homemade speaker cables that Rob brought (which were excellent). Unfortunately, HFC doesn't make USB cables. While they do make digital cables that can be terminated in BNC, they do not presently measure a true 75 ohms (they measure 110 ohms). Having tried these cables between Blu2 and DAVE, I get only massively distorted sound output.

As far as signing off from forums, it's best that I do this at this time (plus the fact that I promised my wife I would do it). This hobby can become obsessive and given my penchant for wanting to hear new things, participating in forums only further fuels the obsession. I have become more involved in a non-profit medical volunteer organization that will require much of my time moving forward. In fact, I am heading to a small medically underserved island in Fiji next week to run a volunteer medical clinic and in May, I'll be doing it again in the Micronesia islands. Any free time leftover, I want to give to my family, especially my youngest son who will be heading to college next year.

As for my audio setup, I am more than pleased with what I have now. Aside from a few things in Rob's pipeline that I will wish to get once Chord begins production of these items, I am content to stay put and just enjoy the music. Maybe I'll return in the future to throw in a post here and there but at this time, I am not anticipating doing so. Best wishes.

 

[romaz]

On the subject of RF generation by components, is there a detector / meter that can be plugged into the component to check RF generation so that we don't have to use phrases such as 'felt it was an RF noise generator'?

That is what is so difficult about all of this. According to Rob, there is no meter and so his claims are based on his experience. For all the reasons I was drawn to DAVE, I am now being told many of these same qualities that I value represent RF noise when it comes to other components.

 

[romaz]

Roy, you've got both a COLOR and a USER tag in your posting that's causing the formatting problems. Right at the start of the text they appear as a pair: color= and user=. At the very end of the text they appear again as /user and /color. Delete the whole of these at both ends, including the square brackets that hold these tags. The color tag is relatively harmless, but the user tag is creating the clickable link.

Thanks, Jawed. I've fixed the problem.

In my experiments with ferrites I've found that "not enough" of them can result in a sound quality that isn't harsh, bright or fatiguing, but has a kind of hyper-realism to it. It's almost like a sheen of explicitness has been added and can be heard as increased presence, air, hyper-detail and a sort of etched three-dimensionality that makes singers/instruments have a kind of "stand out" effect, separating them from the rest of the ambience in the recording.

It's very pleasing in the short term, but from time to time this presentational style will draw attention to itself as an effect.

A Chord DAC always does the same thing when you feed it with less RF: it sounds darker, the soundstage expands and transients get faster.

So when you hear these things you know it's working better.

It will often sound quieter, too. The quietest sounding of two systems is often a big clue as to which is working better. When one system urges you to turn it up louder, that's the one you want. Distortions from the lesser system, even when the volume control hasn't been changed, are causing a kind of low-level confusion which is heard as an unexplainable loudness, as if it were a minor irritant, not overtly perceptible but subtly wrong all the same.

Well articulated and very helpful. Thanks again.

 

[Triode User]

Thanks but I just get this . . . . .

 

[Triode User]

For the few BluDAVE owners with the Innuous Zenith SE server, dropouts may be caused by the implementation of Roon for Linux OS. From what I'm gathering, it seems like ultraRendu and microRendu owners don't have this issue (could be wrong).

I've found that as long as files/streams from Roon are a multiple of 48 kHz, it'll play fine. So if you have an 88.1 kHz file, upsampling to 96 kHz will prevent dropouts. For 44.1 kHz files, upsample to 48 kHz. This upsampling could be done in Roon's DSP management. Of course, this isn't optimal but it's an easy solution with no audible consequences from my listening tests.

When going USB direct from laptop via Foobar or using a Squeezebox app, I haven't experienced any dropouts from Zenith SE. Also, any originals at 48/96/192 kHz rates aren't affected.

Sorry but I am not following what you are saying. I have an Innuos Zenith SE which I plug direct into Blu2 which in turn is connected to Dave. I play mostly 44.1kHz files ripped to the SE hard drive but with occasional higher res downloaded files such as 96 and 192kHz. I have not had a single drop out or connection issue yet I think you are saying 44.1 files are the biggest culprits for dropouts. Is that what you are saying? Also, what do you mean about connecting your laptop to the SE?

Thanks.

 

[TheAttorney]

Another lesson that this exercise has reinforced for me is that don't assume that just because Rob likes something or that I like something or Jay likes something, that you'll like it, too. I'm sure many will read this post and wonder who's right and who's wrong? Listen for yourself and make up your own mind.

That listening session has helped clear up some of the confusion I've had about Rob's subjective preferences. For example, I could never understand how he was seemingly satisfied with a basic, un-modded laptop as source in such a transparent system. Little chance of, say, a microRendu or SOtM trifecta appearing in his system. I now realise that I cannot rely on Rob's subjective viewpoint to guide me to what I will prefer myself. Whilst the mantra "if it sounds brighter it must be noiser" has some mileage, and maybe even critical in some design situations, I don't think it should be quite so dogmatic in the overall end result.

Maybe my preferences will change with time. They've already shifted once, from preferring a warmer presentation in the past, to now one of greater clarity and transparency. There's "good detail" caused by more accurate reproduction, and "bad detail" typically caused by noise. I think I can tell the difference in most cases, but if I'm wrong it doesn't matter as long as I end up with greater musical enjoyment. That won't stop me from listening very carefully to Rob's subjective viewpoint in the future, becuase I always learn something that way

 

[bacon333]

Sorry but I am not following what you are saying. I have an Innuos Zenith SE which I plug direct into Blu2 which in turn is connected to Dave. I play mostly 44.1kHz files ripped to the SE hard drive but with occasional higher res downloaded files such as 96 and 192kHz. I have not had a single drop out or connection issue yet I think you are saying 44.1 files are the biggest culprits for dropouts. Is that what you are saying? Also, what do you mean about connecting your laptop to the SE?

Thanks.

I should mention this is a very rare case (seemingly only for a few SE owners) so if it isn't a problem for you, keep calm & carry on. Connecting the laptop via USB (playing 44.1/16) to BluDAVE and testing via Squeeze apps was just to confirm the problem might be due to the Linux Roon implementation and not a problem with BluDAVE.

 

[Malcyg]

That listening session has helped clear up some of the confusion I've had about Rob's subjective preferences. For example, I could never understand how he was seemingly satisfied with a basic, un-modded laptop as source in such a transparent system. Little chance of, say, a microRendu or SOtM trifecta appearing in his system. I now realise that I cannot rely on Rob's subjective viewpoint to guide me to what I will prefer myself. Whilst the mantra "if it sounds brighter it must be noiser" has some mileage, and maybe even critical in some design situations, I don't think it should be quite so dogmatic in the overall end result.

Maybe my preferences will change with time. They've already shifted once, from preferring a warmer presentation in the past, to now one of greater clarity and transparency. There's "good detail" caused by more accurate reproduction, and "bad detail" typically caused by noise. I think I can tell the difference in most cases, but if I'm wrong it doesn't matter as long as I end up with greater musical enjoyment. That won't stop me from listening very carefully to Rob's subjective viewpoint in the future, becuase I always learn something that way

Exactly what I’m thinking. I have always trusted my own ears as the only ones that count. If you trust the ears of other people more than your own, you run the risk of being very disappointed. I say this not in relation to Rob’s ears, but as a general principle about people needing to hear and judge for themselves. It is the only way, especially given the prices involved with some of the stuff we are talking about.

Some people seem to want certainty of outcome, but this is often not possible due to variable local factors, not least the ears that are doing the listening.

 

[Triode User]

I should mention this is a very rare case (seemingly only for a few SE owners) so if it isn't a problem for you, keep calm & carry on. Connecting the laptop via USB (playing 44.1/16) to BluDAVE and testing via Squeeze apps was just to confirm the problem might be due to the Linux Roon implementation and not a problem with BluDAVE.

Thanks.