[Andykong]

It is simple. If I buy a dap that highlights certain feature, I want it to deliver it.

If I buy a R2R dap, I will want that organic non-fatiguing sound. That’s the exact reason I did not buy Hiby RS6 because several of my trusted friends here said it is not really R2R sound at all.

If I buy N8ii, I will want it to have a good tube sound. I had C9 before and I thought its tube output does not do much. It is an excellent product nonetheless because the SS mode by itself is very good. So, I think it is fair to say that I am puzzled by the move to make N8ii even less tubey. In that spirit, many of my friends, and myself included, will likely not be able to to hear much (or any) difference between the tube and SS mode.

Guys, I own 3 tube amps, the C9, and I just bought the N8ii. Hybrid tube amps do not in any way sound close to as "tubey" as a full transformer couple or OTL tube amps. The WA8 sounds like a tube amp. I have never heard any hybrid tube amp that sounded like these tube amps. Neither the C9, nor the N8ii sound like tube amps in tube mode. At best it slightly warms up the sound and rounds off the sharper edges of bright IEMs or headphones. I think the N8ii implementation is better than the C9 implementation because there is great contrast in the tone when switching between modes. You will hear a more noticeable difference in sound with the N8ii than the C9. I would make sure you hear it before you get worked up about it.

One man's loss is another man's gain. Maybe bluestorm1992 should take HiFiHawaii808 shariing and consider WA8 instead of C9 or N8ii?

 

[Nostoi]

I have always praise the WA8 in different discussions. Woo Audio has created something very unique here. Please understand WA8 is a transformer coupled all-tube amplification design. Purely from tube amp implementaiton perspective, we have to give a lot of credcit to WA8.

N8, C9 and N8ii, on the other hand, are hybrid design with Nutube in first stage and a solid state headphone amplicaiton at the final output stage. They are less "tubey", if this is the word that we are all looking for tonight, than WA8 by design. Cayin knows transformer coupled design very well, they have designed hundreds of transformer coupled vacuum tube amplfieir for both speakers and headphones, but they opt for a hybrid design with DAP and portable headphone amplifier for practicality in portable application.

The point is, they are all excellent products with different priorities, and "level of tube flavour" is not the only criteria in comparing these fine products.

I agree. C9 and WA8 are complementary to one another - they each have a different presentation of a "tube" sound, and are both excellent products. Worth owning both, if you ask me.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Okay, I’ll bite. What the F is tubey? How will know what’s tubey perfect or tubey enough? Seriously curious.

Tubes add distortion to music. The distortion varies depending on the type of tube you use and the stage of amplification you put it. It ranges from a buzzy sound, to a warm and lush sound with expanded and 3-d sound stage. Some tubes actually sound more solid state and are sought after because of it. After you've heard what a tube amp sounds like with various tubes, you know what it is and it is very easy to pick out. For me, my preferred listening set up is with a transformer coupled tube amp. I love my music with the warm and lush sound of tubes.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

One man's loss is another man's gain. Maybe bluestorm1992 should take HiFiHawaii808 shariing and consider WA8 instead of C9 or N8ii?

Nothing wrong with buying N8ii and WA8. C9 would be best with midfi daps.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Then I am curious to see what justifies its price tag compared to other TOTL daps.

At $3500, it’d better have special selling points (such as tube), or it delivers superior sound quality that beats many other TOTL daps

I think I better understand what is going on with this discussion. It seems there are a number of posters who have preordered the N8ii in part because it has a tube feature and their anchor point is the N8. Now they are learning that the tube implementation on the N8ii may result in less of what they thought they were getting. I can see how such a person could be disappointed to hear that it might not be as good. The key word here is "might". Ease up and listen to it. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Now, take my situation. I had no intention of ever spending $3500 on a DAP. That is a ridiculous price and I have since learned that my favorite DAC is an R2R dac which is doens't have. I was fine with waiting until Cayin came out with another TOTL R2R DAP. So, you can imagine that I was completely predisposed to not wanting or not liking the N8ii. I went to Can Jam NYC expecting for it to sound good, but nothing special. But, instead what I got was one of the most positive experiences I have ever had with a DAP. To me, it is actually ground breaking sound. I didn't even care that it had tube support since I already own 3 tube amps and if anything I planned on pairing it with WA8 for tube sound. I just listened to the default configuration. Needless to say, I immediately bought it and I cannot wait to receive it later this month.

edited to note: The N8ii is my first TOTL DAP. It is definitely possible that other TOTL DAPs are as good as or better than N8ii. I wouldn't know, since I haven't heard them. The only other TOTL DAP I have heard is the DMP Z1, but that really isn't a DAP. It was the best DAP I had ever heard at that time and I would like to A/B test the N8ii with it.

 

[mungster]

I think I better understand what is going on with this discussion. It seems there are a number of posters who have preordered the N8ii in part because it has a tube feature and their anchor point is the N8. Now they are learning that the tube implementation on the N8ii may result in less of what they thought they were getting. I can see how such a person could be disappointed to hear that it might not be as good. The key word here is "might". Ease up and listen to it. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Now, take my situation. I had no intention of ever spending $3500 on a DAP. That is a ridiculous price and I have since learned that my favorite DAC is an R2R dac which is doens't have. I was fine with waiting until Cayin came out with another TOTL R2R DAP. So, you can imagine that I was completely predisposed to not wanting or not liking the N8ii. I went to Can Jam NYC expecting for it to sound good, but nothing special. But, instead what I got was one of the most positive experiences I have ever had with a DAP. To me, it is actually ground breaking sound. I didn't even care that it had tube support since I already own 3 tube amps and if anything I planned on

LP6TI is another great dap, but no streaming though.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

You need to try the LP6TI as well. That is another great r2r dap.

That is what everyone in the Musicteck booth said and wanted me to do. I had to say no several times. I told them that I didn't want to do it because then I would want to buy it and that would require me to spend a lot of money buying music. I will be patient for some great DAP company to create a TOTL DAP with an R2R DAC that support Android.

 

[gLer]

That is what everyone in the Musicteck booth said and wanted me to do. I had to say no several times. I told them that I didn't want to do it because then I would want to buy it and that would require me to spend a lot of money buying music. I will be patient for some great DAP company to create a TOTL DAP with an R2R DAC that support Android.

So you don't want to hear it because if you like it you have to buy it? Don't you get a say in the matter?

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

So you don't want to hear it because if you like it you have to buy it? Don't you get a say in the matter?

You can't unhear something. I don't want to know what I am missing.

 

[gLer]

You can't unhear something. I don't want to know what I am missing.

I've heard plenty better than what I own. I've enjoyed cars far nicer than what I drive. I photograph homes far more luxurious than where I live.

True contentment can only come from wanting what you have, not having what you want.

Just my world view. 0.02 and all that.

 

[Doug2507]

Well, that's mine shipping end of next week apparently, seems like everyone who's ordered will get their hands on one soon!

I'm probably one of the minority here and haven't bought it specifically for tubes. I had N8 and thought it was excellent, not perfect by any means but pretty damn good at the time. So much so I invested in having Romi tinker with it to eek out a bit more. The result of that was letting go of Hugo 2.

I far preferred balanced / 4.4mm so that kind of ruled out tubes on N8 straight away but even in SE, tube use was largely dictated by what was playing. Anything from early AC/DC, Led Zep, Floyd era and some more modern mellow stuff and I'd whack the tubes on if the mood took me but as I've said, I gravitated more towards bal.

I'm keen to hear N8ii being an exclusive 4.4mm user as most of us are now anyway I'd imagine. Nu Tube will never emulate the big boy tube amps (or pre) but but it will add a flavour. More options to play with / changes to sound within one player is a bonus. Not all albums sound there best on the same source so being able to mix it up to suit what's being played is a win for me.

Tubes are a nice feature and obviously it's marketed heavily with that in mind but take them away and it's still one hell of a dap. New DAC'S are interesting as I'm an AKM fan boy all the way, ESS just doesn't work with my ears. Class A on N6ii was pretty good to my ears so more of the same but improved I also look forward to hearing. Build I know will be excellent and Cayin support I've found to be very good with active participation, not just drop the product then run. Ticks all of the boxes on paper for me, just need to get it burned in and see what it can do!

My only reservation is the bottom end, I felt N8 was a bit conservative and hope N8ii has a bit more authority. A leaner / cleaner MAX SS bottom maybe but retaining all of the weight / authority would be excellent. Having read the review with MEST MK.2, I'm hoping for good things paired with indigo....

 

[jmills8]

Well, that's mine shipping end of next week apparently, seems like everyone who's ordered will get their hands on one soon!

I'm probably one of the minority here and haven't bought it specifically for tubes. I had N8 and thought it was excellent, not perfect by any means but pretty damn good at the time. So much so I invested in having Romi tinker with it to eek out a bit more. The result of that was letting go of Hugo 2.

I far preferred balanced / 4.4mm so that kind of ruled out tubes on N8 straight away but even in SE, tube use was largely dictated by what was playing. Anything from early AC/DC, Led Zep, Floyd era and some more modern mellow stuff and I'd whack the tubes on if the mood took me but as I've said, I gravitated more towards bal.

I'm keen to hear N8ii being an exclusive 4.4mm user as most of us are now anyway I'd imagine. Nu Tube will never emulate the big boy tube amps (or pre) but but it will add a flavour. More options to play with / changes to sound within one player is a bonus. Not all albums sound there best on the same source so being able to mix it up to suit what's being played is a win for me.

Tubes are a nice feature and obviously it's marketed heavily with that in mind but take them away and it's still one hell of a dap. New DAC'S are interesting as I'm an AKM fan boy all the way, ESS just doesn't work with my ears. Class A on N6ii was pretty good to my ears so more of the same but improved I also look forward to hearing. Build I know will be excellent and Cayin support I've found to be very good with active participation, not just drop the product then run. Ticks all of the boxes on paper for me, just need to get it burned in and see what it can do!

My only reservation is the bottom end, I felt N8 was a bit conservative and hope N8ii has a bit more authority. A leaner / cleaner MAX SS bottom maybe but retaining all of the weight / authority would be excellent. Having read the review with MEST MK.2, I'm hoping for good things paired with indigo....

N8 with th900 has bottom end.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

I've heard plenty better than what I own. I've enjoyed cars far nicer than what I drive. I photograph homes far more luxurious than where I live.

True contentment can only come from wanting what you have, not having what you want.

Just my world view. 0.02 and all that.

And my sister tells me that the grass is always greener in my front yard. I am truly a happy person. I have no desire to hear the LP6 because I can't buy it and I don't want to hear it for that reason. If you want to hear it, be my guest.

 

[Whitigir]

Well, after having different KORG tubes in different players. All I can say is that if anyone is looking to have a really typical “Tubes” sound from KORG is not going to happen. KORG tubes only give a touch of tubes-ness. It will not saturate or distort the way the typical tubes do. Then different manufacturers have different task to tackles, whether be dealing with it Ding-Ring by the mounting mechanism …. Or the hissing, the low output level….or stuck at being Single Ended….or being too Warmth….etc.

After all, it really do seem that Cayin have worked all the bugs out of the KORG tube in a DAP.

Nothing is perfect, especially for a limited space design that Cayin have on hand to design a Portable player. So compromises will have to take place. No one else out there can be as innovative as Cayin right at this moment.

I don’t think you have any other options in true balanced KORG tubes design in a portable player anyways. So, in the end, you will either like it, or hate it….depends on gears. You just need to take a dive and listen to it yourself.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Well, after having different KORG tubes in different players. All I can say is that if anyone is looking to have a really typical “Tubes” sound from KORG is not going to happen. KORG tubes only give a touch of tubes-ness. It will not saturate or distort the way the typical tubes do. Then different manufacturers have different task to tackles, whether be dealing with it Ding-Ring by the mounting mechanism …. Or the hissing, the low output level….or stuck at being Single Ended….or being too Warmth….etc.

After all, it really do seem that Cayin have worked all the bugs out of the KORG tube in a DAP.

Nothing is perfect, especially for a limited space design that Cayin have on hand to design a Portable player. So compromises will have to take place. No one else out there can be as innovative as Cayin right at this moment.

I don’t think you have any other options in true balanced KORG tubes design in a portable player anyways. So, in the end, you will either like it, or hate it….depends on gears. You just need to take a dive and listen to it yourself.

The N8ii is not light by any measure, but it is remarkably not heavy for a TOTL DAP and with tube sound. Just think it they took that out. It might sound like it does in solid state mode and weigh the same as an RS6. I would rather have that product.