[ssriram2791]

How on earth am I making a choice for others? So if I hype a product, I will be forcing you to buy it, and if I doubt a product, I will be forcing you not to buy it?

No. You have not listened to this product. You talk about you friends opinion who doesnt seem to be in this thread supporting your arguments. Lot of preconceived notions about a product that you have not listened to, is not going to make people trust your opinion. If you listen and you didnt like it, sure go ahead and provide reasons for that. But dont muddy the thread with your doubts. If I want to buy N8ii or any product, I will make an informed decision based on list of reviewers I perceive matching my tastes.

 

[bluestorm1992]

No. You have not listened to this product. You talk about you friends opinion who doesnt seem to be in this thread supporting your arguments. Lot of preconceived notions about a product that you have not listened to, is not going to make people trust your opinion. If you listen and you didnt like it, sure go ahead and provide reasons for that. But dont muddy the thread with your doubts. If I want to buy N8ii or any product, I will make an informed decision based on list of reviewers I perceive matching my tastes.

Checks out Kar’s comments above… he’s being quite nice here though.

I will trust reviewers more if they were not given a great discount upfront to buy it, or sometimes even a free product. Good luck with that.

 

[nickwerner]

Why do so many threads on here always come to these non-sense discussions.

Isn’t it rather simple? If anyone dislikes the n8ii on paper, without having heard it, fine. But why share this opinion?

By all means anyone who has heard the n8ii and doesn’t like it, please share, while always subjective this is important information to share.

I never understand these „on paper opinions“. It’s essentially the same with frequency response curves in headphones. If I had believed „on paper reviews“ in the past, boy would I have missed out on some awesome gear.

I am also suprised that this discussion is coming up now. Cayin/ Andy have been super transparent about the nutube implementation in the n8ii.

Maybe we should all wait for further actual impressions of people who have heard the n8ii. I habe pre-ordered from the distributor in Germany and should receive mine soon. If I like it: awesome!! If I don’t, also great. I will sell/return/exchange it.

 

[Nostoi]

No. You have not listened to this product. You talk about you friends opinion who doesnt seem to be in this thread supporting your arguments. Lot of preconceived notions about a product that you have not listened to, is not going to make people trust your opinion. If you listen and you didnt like it, sure go ahead and provide reasons for that. But dont muddy the thread with your doubts. If I want to buy N8ii or any product, I will make an informed decision based on list of reviewers I perceive matching my tastes.

Eh? The only thing muddy here is your response.

I can't speak for @bluestorm1992 , but he seems to me to merely be raising a series of questions about the design and use of the N8ii in a perfectly fair way.

You're an adult, you can make up your own mind on a product without being swayed by the "doubts" of others, surely.

 

[Andykong]

You can even tell this by NOS tubes, dynamic, more transparent tubes like some TeleFunken and Mazda are becoming extremely expensive and hard to find over Mullard or more syrupy tubes that used to be most popular. My last pair of Telefunken, bought 2 years ago for $450 a pair now Brent has are $1,799, crazy. My modern tube amp by amps and sound has a black quite background which allows the tube to be more transparent. I think with more people listening to high res there’s been more of a demand for more transparent tubes, even in the NOS collecting world.

As a consultant to Cayin, I admire their sharp and keen approach to product development. Since the N8 was well-received, they could have play safe and copy cat the N8 circuit design to C9 and N8ii. No they don't, they didn't stop at N8 and spend a lot of effort to explore Nutube. From what I know, Cayin have developed 70+ rounds of circuit prototype on Nutube already and they pick what they consider the best fit to current market. That fact is, the audiophile and headfier community value transparent and transient particularly in past few years, the Hi-Res streaming norm definitely play a very important role in this development. The dramatic improvement in high-end IEM also flavor a more crispy turning. I am sure we are all stuned when we compre the current TOTL IEMs to 2018 TOTL products. Cayin simply selected the best circuit option that facilitate all these requirements and yet retain the harmonic characteristic of tube amplification.

 

[Andykong]

Checks out Kar’s comments above… he’s being quite nice here though.

I will trust reviewers more if they were not given a great discount upfront to buy it, or sometimes even a free product. Good luck with that.

Please wait for more impression and reviews before you jump to a conclusion.

 

[Levanter]

@Andykong
Thanks for the explanation. I think the general conception most people have is that tube = warm sounding. Which is partly true since most tubes are generally warm, thick and lush. But it’s true that there are tubes with a more neutral type sound as well, while retaining the tube essence which brings the organic timbre, layering, emotions.
If this is the direction that the N8ii is taking then I’m quite contented with that.
Although it would be nice to have a bigger sound signature difference with a neutral SS and a warmer, lush Tube option for versatility.

 

[ssriram2791]

Eh? The only thing muddy here is your response.

I can't speak for @bluestorm1992 , but he seems to me to merely be raising a series of questions about the design and use of the N8ii in a perfectly fair way.

You're an adult, you can make up your own mind on a product without being swayed by the "doubts" of others, surely.

I have one question to ask you and @bluestorm1992 and I need straight answer

Is it in your honest opinion that Cayin misled people about tube sound as per your own definition of tube sound?

 

[twister6]

Since I reviewed N8 almost 4 years ago and after that only heard it once for a few hours, I can't even attempt to compare it by memory (and not going to pull stuff out of my ...), but from my original notes the difference between its SS and Tube outputs were not that overly drastic either. It was always a refinement in sound, especially applicable to mids/vocals, making it less dry, adding more body, texture. Even back then, NuTube wasn't exactly what you get with traditional triode vacuum tubes. As many are familiar already, NuTubes implement vacuum fluorescent display tech to give the sound some harmonic distortion/saturation, operating similar to traditional vacuum tubes, but it's not a traditional vacuum tube. I don't have much experience with desktop equipment, but I'm sure many can attest to N8 w/NuTubes not being the same as warm tonality of desktop tube amps.

Then, we had AMP9 NuTube module for DX2x0 iBasso series of DAPs, also nothing like tube sound. M30 was warm and tubey, it wasn't just the NuTube but also their amplifier implementation and house sound tuning (just like M8 is quite warm in tonality even without tubes). Then, comes C9 with its dual NuTube implementation. Many people own or owned or heard it. So again, lots of familiarity of what these Korg modules can deliver, without any false expectations of traditional vacuum tubes.

N8ii is like a Frankenstein , possibly built on a mature fast Android platform of R8 with slightly modified solid state/dual NuTube of C9 and brand new pair of ROHM DACs. I don't think people should anticipate groundbreaking surprises here, especially if you are already familiar with hi-res performance of AK4499 (which I find ROHM to follow the footsteps of) and the performance of C9 dual timbre amp. I can't speak for Cayin and how they derived the price of N8ii, but if you look at $1.8k Hiby R8 and $2k C9 and two brand new pricey ROHM dacs, that's already over $3.5k. Or if you take non-android original $3.3k N8 and add Android platform and another NuTube, that's also over $3.5k. But anyway, I'm not here to sell the product and not affiliated with manufacturer. But I do enjoy analyzing things from a different perspective. I know, price questions were addressed to Andy, and hopefully I'm not overstepping my boundary, but that is how I see it from a reviewer perspective.

IMHO to summarize, NuTube in N8ii is not your traditional desktop tube, but rather NuTube everybody is already familiar with in C9. I find ROHM performance to be rather impressive and on a similar level as AK4499. N8ii is convenient as all-in-one solution especially when you are stacking your streaming android DAP with C9. And access to Solid State vs Tube, Class A vs Class AB, P vs P+ power mode, 3 levels of gain, and 2 digital filters (slow and fast roll off) - all give you a combination of various refinement tools to effectively fine tune the sound (and improve pair-up synergy) without yielding a drastic change like you would expect when switching between desktop solid state and vacuum tube amps.

Just my 2c.

 

[Nostoi]

I have one question to ask you and @bluestorm1992 and I need straight answer

Is it in your honest opinion that Cayin misled people about tube sound as per your own definition of tube sound?

He needs a straight answer.

LOL.

I've not heard the N8ii, but I've had the C9 since it was out and am unlikely to ever sell it. "Tube sound" is a wide-reaching term, which cannot be reduced to a definition. This is why I also have the WA8, to cater for the entre spectrum of variants in tube sound.

 

[Z_Showmaster]

Since I reviewed N8 almost 4 years ago and after that only heard it once for a few hours, I can't even attempt to compare it by memory (and not going to pull stuff out of my ...), but from my original notes the difference between its SS and Tube outputs were not that overly drastic either. It was always a refinement in sound, especially applicable to mids/vocals, making it less dry, adding more body, texture. Even back then, NuTube wasn't exactly what you get with traditional triode vacuum tubes. As many are familiar already, NuTubes implement vacuum fluorescent display tech to give the sound some harmonic distortion/saturation, operating similar to traditional vacuum tubes, but it's not a traditional vacuum tube. I don't have much experience with desktop equipment, but I'm sure many can attest to N8 w/NuTubes not being the same as warm tonality of desktop tube amps.

Then, we had AMP9 NuTube module for DX2x0 iBasso series of DAPs, also nothing like tube sound. M30 was warm and tubey, it wasn't just the NuTube but also their amplifier implementation and house sound tuning (just like M8 is quite warm in tonality even without tubes). Then, comes C9 with its dual NuTube implementation. Many people own or owned or heard it. So again, lots of familiarity of what these Korg modules can deliver, without any false expectations of traditional vacuum tubes.

N8ii is like a Frankenstein , possibly built on a mature fast Android platform of R8 with slightly modified solid state/dual NuTube of C9 and brand new pair of ROHM DACs. I don't think people should anticipate groundbreaking surprises here, especially if you are already familiar with hi-res performance of AK4499 (which I find ROHM to follow the footsteps of) and the performance of C9 dual timbre amp. I can't speak for Cayin and how they derived the price of N8ii, but if you look at $1.8k Hiby R8 and $2k C9 and two brand new pricey ROHM dacs, that's already over $3.5k. Or if you take non-android original $3.3k N8 and add Android platform and another NuTube, that's also over $3.5k But anyway, I'm not here to sell the product and not affiliated with manufacturer. But I do enjoy analyzing things from a different perspective. I know, price questions were addressed to Andy, and hopefully I'm not overstepping my boundary, but that is how I see it from a reviewer perspective.

IMHO to summarize, NuTube in N8ii is not your traditional desktop tube, but rather NuTube everybody is already familiar with in C9. I find ROHM performance to be rather impressive and on a similar level as AK4499. N8ii is convenient as all-in-one solution especially when you are stacking your streaming android DAP with C9. And access to Solid State vs Tube, Class A vs Class AB, P vs P+ power mode, 3 levels of gain, and 2 digital filters (slow and fast roll off) - all give you a combination of various refinement tools to effectively fine tune the sound (and improve pair-up synergy) without yielding a drastic change like you would expect when switching between desktop solid state and vacuum tube amps.

Just my 2c.

Thanks for speaking a lot of sense.

 

[John Blackshear]

Okay, I’ll bite. What the F is tubey? How will know what’s tubey perfect or tubey enough? Seriously curious.

 

[Andykong]

He needs a straight answer.

LOL.

I've not heard the N8ii, but I've had the C9 since it was out and am unlikely to ever sell it. "Tube sound" is a wide-reaching term, which cannot be reduced to a definition. This is why I also have the WA8, to cater for the entre spectrum of variants in tube sound.

I have always praise the WA8 in different discussions. Woo Audio has created something very unique here. Please understand WA8 is a transformer coupled all-tube amplification design. Purely from tube amp implementaiton perspective, we have to give a lot of credcit to WA8.

N8, C9 and N8ii, on the other hand, are hybrid design with Nutube in first stage and a solid state headphone amplicaiton at the final output stage. They are less "tubey", if this is the word that we are all looking for tonight, than WA8 by design. Cayin knows transformer coupled design very well, they have designed hundreds of transformer coupled vacuum tube amplfieir for both speakers and headphones, but they opt for a hybrid design with DAP and portable headphone amplifier for practicality in portable application.

The point is, they are all excellent products with different priorities, and "level of tube flavour" is not the only criteria in comparing these fine products.

 

[Andykong]

For the record, if someone is looking for a "real" all-tube sound signature from a portable DAP, something that didn't involve solid stage amplificaiton in the circuit and yet
small enough to hold in one hand on-the-go, and robust enough to run, shake or even knock on it during playback, Cayin don't have a product that fit these bills completely. N8, N3Pro and N8ii are all hybrid based.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Guys, I own 3 tube amps, the C9, and I just bought the N8ii. Hybrid tube amps do not in any way sound close to as "tubey" as a full transformer couple or OTL tube amps. The WA8 sounds like a tube amp. I have never heard any hybrid tube amp that sounded like these tube amps. Neither the C9, nor the N8ii sound like tube amps in tube mode. At best it slightly warms up the sound and rounds off the sharper edges of bright IEMs or headphones. I think the N8ii implementation is better than the C9 implementation because there is great contrast in the tone when switching between modes. You will hear a more noticeable difference in sound with the N8ii than the C9. I would make sure you hear it before you get worked up about it.