[Whitigir]

No wonder why the differences between class A and class AB is not as distinctive as Cayin C9. However, the linearity of Class A is undeniable when switching between 2 classes. The “negative feedbacks” on the N8ii is pretty amazing, and that is perhaps why the N8ii is doing such a wonderful jobs on the sound quality. In my DIY project, the negative feedback is just a common negative feedbacks that is either being aggressively more or less, but the gains will be effected, because at the fundamental of NFB, some of the output is fed back to the input in order to correct and expand the bandwidth further. Hence, the gain Is effected

Cayin amazed me that they took all of the points from the consumers wishlists to produce the N8ii, and makes sure to addressed them all

+Desktop amp do better with Non-NFB, where as Portable gears is enjoyed more with NFB. Then Cayin went on and implemented their own Zero-Gain, NFB.
+Too much NFB would effect Tubes too differently than Solid States. So Cayin went on so far to make sure that Neither one do get degraded significantly. Cayin wanted both of the timbres to be equally High-quality. This explained why there is not so much different when switching from Tubes to SS, but the Tube timbres is obviously and definitely presented when turned on

For people who is of curious mind and want to read more about amplifications and it topology/principles. Here is a useful link
https://www.learnabout-electronics.org/Amplifiers/amplifiers31.php

My unit should arrive end of the week. Each post made by Andy and team just further solidifies my decision that buying N8ii over Sony walkman was the right idea.
If we are to turn back time to 4 years ago, N8ii was a dream DAP we never thought would be possible.
Cayin set the bar so high fro themselves that I dont think their next flagship will take a lot longer than the time it took between N8 and N8ii release.

Honestly, N8ii is so different to N8, they should have called it something else. It is in a group of this own.

Yes, and that is why I am loving the N8ii, and of-course nothing is perfect. On top of that, there is the “trade offs” that one need to learn to accept. I am glad to see both Andy and Cayin statements about “our products will satisfy a certain group”. You guys are amazing in both customers relations and product executions.

 

[Whitigir]

Without sounding like a troll, I am as much a Cayin fan as I am AK's, but I have to agree that the SP2K is a great, albeit outdated, DAP, suffering mainly from (1) a lack of power to drive today's more demanding IEMs, and (2) no true LO so I could at least amp it properly and resolve point (1) dammit! I've been searching for its replacement for a while now, something in the same form factor, feels as nice and solid in the hands and with a bucket or six more juice! No luck yet. I have tried the N8ii (twice) and, so far I'm the only one I know who was not all that wow'ed by it -- yes, it's me, all me, I admit. However, I will give it (and me) a third-time-lucky opportunity when a new amp I ordered arrives to power it externally, and hopefully in freeing it from powering its DAC, I get to finally hear what others are hearing.


My SP2K gets pretty hot; maybe I feel it cuz I ride bareback with all my DAPs, no case. May not fry an egg on it but definitely heats up, my friend.

I totally agreed, it just a matter of time and depends on whether the player is or not inside the pocket. I just bring in a comparison so people have a references point. It also amazed me that people don’t complain about “heat” from SP2k while it design is trapping the heat inside, but they do complain about the N8ii .

Yes, I don’t have the problem to charge my N8ii and playing simultaneously either. I just need to learn how to make it happened, rather than being stubborn and blaming it on the manufacturers. I aint Having a brain freeze with my ice cream and then blaming on the maker that the ice cream is too cold .

Both AKM4499EQ and ROHM are DAC chips of Desktop class....which means it is not advised to design and fit inside a portable form, where it can not cool down properly....well, at least on the SP2K, only 1 channel is working per chip instead of 4. On this matter, someone asked previously, and I hope @Andykong can chime in, does Both channels of ROHM work on each chip with the N8ii ?

 

[Andykong]

Ye i meant that the HOT unit sounded way better.

Regarding battery replacement - i know by heart all the shipping regulation as part of my business is Emergency LED lightning.

There is a way to overcome this ... and if battery replacement on DAP is not that difficult procedure i think every distributor/dealer should have a few spare ones for any case instead of sending the DAPs to the factory for battery replacement as this is supper expensive for all sides, the dealers/factory handling the shipments and for the customer is the waiting time.

We have yet to find a reliable channel to ship small quantity of batteries to our dealers all over the world. The problem is, dealers don't have the proper facilities or procedure to keep the batteries in good condition over a period of 2-4 years. They need to deal with a large variety of battery too becaseu each Li-On batter in DAP are custom make battery, we can't use standard size battery because of the inevitable requirements of longest battery duration in smallest possible chassis. As a result of that, a dealer selling 3-4 different brands of DAP might need to deal with with 20 different batteries already, and they probably don't want to keep more then several battery per type.

 

[Andykong]

Ye i meant that the HOT unit sounded way better.

Regarding battery replacement - i know by heart all the shipping regulation as part of my business is Emergency LED lightning.

There is a way to overcome this ... and if battery replacement on DAP is not that difficult procedure i think every distributor/dealer should have a few spare ones for any case instead of sending the DAPs to the factory for battery replacement as this is supper expensive for all sides, the dealers/factory handling the shipments and for the customer is the waiting time.

We have yet to find a reliable channel to ship small quantity of batteries to our dealers all over the world. The problem is, dealers don't have the proper facilities or procedure to keep the batteries in good condition over a period of 2-4 years. They need to deal with a large variety of battery too becaseu each Li-On batter in DAP are custom make battery, we can't use standard size battery because of the inevitable requirements of longest battery duration in smallest possible chassis. As a result of that, a dealer selling 3-4 different brands of DAP might need to deal with with 20 different batteries already, and they probably don't want to keep more then several battery per type.

 

[Andykong]

@Andykong any chance you will offer the demo case with the Velcro lid? I’d love the option to buy one.

Sorry, want is Velcro lid? Can't figure that out ....

But for the record, Cayin has ordered enough case to cover the entire N8ii product cycle already, so it is unlikely that we'll change the design because we need to forfiet our order completely. We'll try to work with other case manufactures to develop more options to our users.

 

[Whitigir]

Unfortunately I hadn't asked Cayin for that spec, only max operating voltage for both the balanced and single-ended.

Edit: turns out I did. 4.4PO P: ±4.7V, 4.4PO P+: ±5.7V as rails. As a BTL player, both hot and cold output, we double swing to 9.4V on P, and 11.4V on P+.

This is another great part. The P and P+ mode are staying closest to the Rails required by the DAC analog channels supplies (within 10%). 4.5-5.5V as the datasheets stated. Less conversions between the different stages. I could be wrong but the P sounds better than P+, specifically speaking in timbres balances...it could be that because I enjoy class A better as well LOL, but I suspect the DAC supplies is primarily on 4.5V. One thing I can’t grasp is why high-gain sounding better than low gain.

Anyone like me ? Enjoying high gain and P mode ?

 

[Andykong]

Tube always has been about giving more voltage, not sure if it's the same for Nutube.

That is true for all-tube designed amplifier, but N8ii is a hybrid. You can precieve (in smiplified terms) it as a tube driver stage with Solid State amplification after that, and the final output stage rules the current and voltage output.

 

[Andykong]

My unit should arrive end of the week. Each post made by Andy and team just further solidifies my decision that buying N8ii over Sony walkman was the right idea.
If we are to turn back time to 4 years ago, N8ii was a dream DAP we never thought would be possible.
Cayin set the bar so high fro themselves that I dont think their next flagship will take a lot longer than the time it took between N8 and N8ii release.

Honestly, N8ii is so different to N8, they should have called it something else. It is in a group of this own.

Well, teat this as a joke because I don't want it to develop into our Kompromat

I did suggest to call it N9, because the anem offers more room to ask for a higher price. Thomas ruled me down and want to keep the price at roughly the same as the original N8 with inflation adjustment only. I can't let him do that and call the new flagship N9 because I need to reserve that for another "creation" when the opportunity arise. Yes, marketing are all evil.

 

[wj18]

It is not uncommon when you hear more distortion from one tube than the other during the warm-up period. The warm up timing of vacuume tube, especicaly direct heated triode like Nutue, can be slightly different. Another potential reason was interferface introduced form placement of the tube. When the ciruitry is not 100% symmertric (definitely not the ase with DAP when everything is cramped in very limited space. one tube might be close to the source of inteference than the other, and the interference is more notieable when the tube is not comletely warmed up. In fact, if we are using traditional glass-type Triode vacuum tube, the different will be more significant when compare to N8ii.

That's reassuring, thanks for the feedback.

 

[Whitigir]

Well, teat this as a joke because I don't want it to develop into our Kompromat

I did suggest to call it N9, because the anem offers more room to ask for a higher price. Thomas ruled me down and want to keep the price at roughly the same as the original N8 with inflation adjustment only. I can't let him do that and call the new flagship N9 because I need to reserve that for another "creation" when the opportunity arise. Yes, marketing are all evil.

It should have been called N9, because the heat, and the dual Korg tubes, with DAO are all yelling C9 + DAC as a DAP....except it isn’t a stack, so the power output is just portable player and not a stack LOL. But I am thankful for Thomas pricing, while others are saying the N8ii is expensive, I think it is worth every cents, and some more.....however, pricing it higher than this and i wouldn’t be here as I am too poor to afford an N9 By Andy I am glad Andy isn’t one executive LoL!

that also means, I ain’t looking forward to the N9 with Quad Korg Tube either

 

[Whitigir]

For people that wonder, why does smartphones have no battery calibrations ? Well they do...just different than DAP. Here is an android note

 

[Currawong]

One thing I can’t grasp is why high-gain sounding better than low gain.

Illusion? Find volume levels in both gain modes that have the same output, then switch and adjust while the music is paused. Then you’ll know for sure if it is not just due to a change in loudness.

 

[Ichos]

@Andykong
Thank you very much for your time and detailed explanation.
I have bookmarked the answer.

 

[yaps66]

Whitigir has asked for details regarding heat dissipations design several time. Sorry for the delays, I was trying to stick with my writing schedule but got stucked on the dual line out and digital interface features, and heat dissipation was meant to cover interference control at the same article.

Anyway, 80% of the heat dissipation design was illustrated on the N8ii product page on Cayin website. As Thomas has explained, the heart of N8ii heat dispperation design if the CNC machined alumimum frame, which serve as an internal frame to provide three independent chambers for PCB, Nutube, and battery seperately.

Internal CNC machined Alumimium Frame​

External CNC machined Alumimium Chassis
​

The battery is one of the main heat generated components, so installing the battery in a seperate alumimum compartment helps to contain the heat and minimise it from affecting the circuitry. The heat from the battery will be transferred to alumimum frame through physical contact. It will transfer to the external chassis efficiently (which is also CNC machined alumimum) and spread over the N8ii externally.

On the other hand, the PCBA (aka, the N8ii circuitry) are installed in the main compartment as illutrated in the N8ii product page.



The overall design is identidal to the battery compartment. The heat from the compoents in N8ii ciruitry will be absorbed by alumimum frame, directed to the external alumimum chassis and finally spread over the N8ii externally. There are three heat dissipations related feature in this compartment:

• The Nicket Silver Heat Shield: to protect the PCBA from the heat dissipated by battery
• Graphite Thermal Sheet: since the heat generated components cannot transfer their heat to the aluminum frame through physical contact, we attached Panasonic PGS (Pyrolytic Graphite Sheet) to enahnce heat dissipation. The graphite sheet is mounted to the Aluminum frame directly (i.e., with physical contact) and transfer the heat to the fram efficiently
• Brass conductive plate. to tame the heat from the hottest components, we installed a brass conductive plate between the comonetns and the graphite sheet further enchance heat transfer.

The objective of these designs is to provide a stable and optimised operation environment to N8ii circutry. Directing heat away from the circuitry is the primary objective and we used the chassis as a heat sink for this purpose. As Thomas has put it, the chassis of N8ii DAP will warm up because of these designs, and users might precieve that N8ii is poorly designed for heat dissipation because of that. On the contrary, if you feel the warmth (or heat) of N8ii during regular operation, that means the engineering of N8ii is functioning.

Unfortunately, the issue is complicated when you charge and listen to N8ii at the same time. We have explained these in previous discussion, but if further explanation can resovle your concern, I am more than happy to go through this problem again.

Welcome back Andy. You were missed!

 

[Doug2507]

Illusion? Find volume levels in both gain modes that have the same output, then switch and adjust while the music is paused. Then you’ll know for sure if it is not just due to a change in loudness.

I actually came across an album the other night that sounded better on low gain. Far and few between though. Low gain does feel quite flat generally and even though it's from memory, I could swear there's far bigger difference between low through to high on n8ii than n8.