Cayin N8 TOTL DAP: KORG Nutube, Dual AK4497, 4.4mm phone/line out
Apr 6, 2019 at 11:30 AM Post #1,741 of 3,873
I'm a metal, hip hop, rock, classical jazz kind of man. It will be for home use. Probably use some hifiman planars or fearless iems. I think the n8 is for me

If you have some hard to drive HPs, I would definitely prefer N8. Even the single ended tube output of N8 can drive Stellia perfectly fine with lowest gain and 50% volume. The WM1Z definitely needs balanced output for getting the full performance out of it and that simply annoys me. Soundwise they are both great but tube output of N8 is meaty and very fun. A little bit warmer but I think that helps with the high gain guitar sounds that they are with more body and easier to listen to for longer periods.
 
Apr 6, 2019 at 1:31 PM Post #1,742 of 3,873
For the look, YES

For the sound, I am not sure as I could not hear the difference for A/B listening between N8 SS and N8 BB during Canjam last week. Will need to audition those again when N8 BB to be released in the next 2 weeks or so

My N8 BB should be dispatched from Cayin on Monday to the UK courtesy of Audio Concierge (reseller in the UK). I will have the chance to compare the SS and BB versions
 
Apr 6, 2019 at 2:12 PM Post #1,743 of 3,873
Anyone notice this thing gets pretty darn hot after like 20-30 minutes? Also when playing music i notice the length in the song does not change ir move while playing. Only shows how long the song is, i.e. 00:00/04:27.
Going to ask this again, i hope this is normal? Wonder if the Black version being brass will be cooler?

Edit: I guess the BB is 2 degrees cooler.
 
Last edited:
Apr 6, 2019 at 6:34 PM Post #1,745 of 3,873
I'm a metal, hip hop, rock, classical jazz kind of man. It will be for home use. Probably use some hifiman planars or fearless iems. I think the n8 is for me
I like many different genres of music as well. I just ordered the BB N8. LPGT is awfully close and has a better OS, but I still felt the N8 sounded a bit better to me across many IEMs. I also felt it had a better Timbre then the A&K 1000, the Sony and the LPGT. My second choice would have been the LPGT. Listen to some music with strong bass and then also listen to Holly Cole’s album “Don’t Smoke In Bed” and you will hear where I am coming from. Enjoy.
 
Apr 6, 2019 at 6:55 PM Post #1,746 of 3,873
I'm tempted, could you please tell us how this match in heaven sounds?

I have tried that combo at Canjam, and it didn’t impress me. I would plug Stellia, Z7 MKII, Aiva, and Utopia or HD800 and 800S into N8. The problem isn’t the N8...it is the voicing of the Empyrean. I even tried Empyrean out of Dave, and then Quest Style as they were all in the same room. Empyrean isn’t my cup of tea, and for the price tag...Mehhzz, not even any positive lasting impressions. But that is me

With the stock cable, I'd agree with this. With the silver litz cable I have, it's a bit on the warm side side still, but more "easy listening" than anything.
 
Apr 6, 2019 at 10:26 PM Post #1,747 of 3,873
My N8 BB should be dispatched from Cayin on Monday to the UK courtesy of Audio Concierge (reseller in the UK). I will have the chance to compare the SS and BB versions
Great and congratulation as you are among the very 1st to own N8 BB. Looking forward to hearing your experience of N8 BB. This is in my hot list to pull trigger. Cheers,
 
Apr 7, 2019 at 8:04 AM Post #1,748 of 3,873
Hi everyone,

I have just posted some comparison impressions on the Sony IER-Z1R thread about source equipment (DAP) pairing. Since a big part of it was a direct comparison between Sony NW-WM1Z and the Cayin N8, thought it is relevant to share it in this thread too, please refer some extract:

Disclaimer: This is a subjective analysis based on personal preferences and experiences with equipment that I personally own, and does not mean that it is findings are applicable to other IEMs or headphones.

Basis of comparison extract:


…First thing first below is the list of DAPs used for this comparison and the daunting task to volume match the equipment based on same “Pink Noise” track played from each DAP, through the IER-Z1R, to my mobile phone microphone using Sound Meter App to reach 60dB. Below are the results except for the AR-M2. List of DAPs by released year, in addition to volume matching findings:


- Sony NW-WM1Z – 2016 / 3.5mm and 4.4mm – vol. 73
- Cayin N8 – 2018 / 3.5mm – vol. 44 (on low gain) and 4.4mm – vol. 39 (on low gain)

I have used the following 3 tracks for this exercise, all in FLAC files (since not all of the above mentioned play native DSD), and the tracks (Album, Track / Artist) are:
- Hotel California, Hotel California / Eagles
- Time Out, Take Five / The Dave Brubeck Quartet
- Random Access Memories, Giorgio by Moroder / Daft Punk

Comparison analysis extract:
…Hotel California…
There are 3 “hidden sounds” on this track for me to measure detail retrieval throughout the track (hidden sound meaning that they are masked behind more prominent sounds in the track).

First, the guitar that start-off the track, slowly fades away when Don Henley starts his singing and drums playing, with the repeating tune for most of the track but still noticeable. … Second, bassist repeating tune again in lower center throughout the track, with the IER-Z1R those notes go deep giving a nice extension. The third, it is after the track is taken over by the instruments, from 5:39 to 6:03 the bassist plays a tune and the notes are hidden in between the electric guitar…

…This section is going to be a direct IER-Z1R pairing sound comparison between the Sony NW-WM1Z (firmware 3.1) and Cayin N8 (firmware 2.2), 4.4mm balanced solid state output vs 3.5 single ended solid state output vs 3.5 Korg Nutube; and it is not indicative of how they sound with all earphones and headphones.

Here we have 2 DAPs with noticeably multiple sound signature and presentation, personally I think the WM1Z has 2 while the N8 has 2.5, the 0.5 given to the Korg Nutube tuning because it is just a minimal tweak of the 3.5 single ended solid state output which in itself sounds already amazing (more to that shortly). I was expecting a more “tubey”/sweeter/warmer presentation on the Korg Nutube, but the direction Cayin took was to maintain the same level of accuracy, analyticality, balance and spaciousness by adding a minimal sprinkle of warmth, and I respect that decision.

General stage dimensions, tonality and sound signature pairing comparison with the IER-Z1R:
WM1Z (4.4) –
Height of sound stage fall slightly short to all other variations below except for N8 (tube), width come short to the N8 (3.5 and tube) only, and depth on this track is about the same with the N8 (3.5), which is deeper than the WM1Z (3.5) and N8 (4.4 and tube). Tonality is warm-laidback, mids are slightly recessed, treble is gentle and bass is tight.

N8 (4.4) – Width of the soundstage falls short to the WM1Z (4.4) and N8 (3.5 and tube), height is perceived to be tallest with WM1Z (3.5), depth fall slightly short to the WM1Z (4.4) and N8 (3.5 and tube). Tonality is neutral-transparent, mids are dynamic, treble is airy and bass is weighty.

WM1Z (3.5) – Height of sound stage is the tallest to all other variations with the N8 (4.4), width come slightly short to all other variations, and depth on this track seems about the same with the N8 (4.4), however, falling short against the N8 (3.5 and tube). Tonality is neutral-natural, mids are intimate, treble is smooth and bass is tight.

N8 (3.5) – Width is the longest with the N8 (tube), height fall short to all variations except for N8 (tube), and depth is about the same as WM1Z (4.4) and a tiny but deeper than the N8 (tube). Tonality and sound signature are similar to the N8 (4.4), however, because the sound stage characteristic the music is presented slightly more distant (concert hall).

N8 (Tube) – The only differences to the N8 (3.5) are perceived tiny bit shorter in sound stage height, as a result of minimal sprinkle of warmth added in the sound signature. Making the bass sounding tiny bit more reverberant, treble is smooth but instead of extending upward it extends sideways (pretty sweet J and “tubey” like), and the mids are dynamic but sounding tiny bit more forward compared to the N8 (3.5).

Verdict on Hotel California:
In terms of detail retrieval based on the 3 hidden sounds (mentioned in AR-M2 write up above), the WM1Z (3.5) will probably be my choice, even if it does not sound as transparent as the N8 (4.4), because the layering of the Y axis (Height), instruments placement are better separated. Hence, the 1st and 2nd hidden sounds are more identifiable; as for the 3rd hidden sound due to slightly better mids dynamics on the N8 (4.4) becomes more audible on the N8. However, in terms of listening experience point of view, I prefer the N8 (3.5), because of the better instrument separation through the X axis (width) and perceived deeper Z axis due to slightly recessed mids making it a “concert hall” like experience.

Verdict on Take Five:
Since it is a simple track (4 instruments playing a slow Jazz tune), sound stage dimensions does not play much of a role compared to the tonality and instrument positioning. After all, Jazz is about sultry, relaxing and romantic tune.

In most rendition of this track, due to its frequency response the saxophone sound does not come from center point of the sound stage (usually slightly higher than center point), and here comes the magic trick from the N8 (tube), as suddenly we have all instruments perceivably to be more aligned. The drums from the left, the saxophone in the center and the piano to the right, hence in listening experience term N8 (tube) is enlightening. On the other hand, the WM1Z (4.4) slightly warmer and analog like tonality characteristic marries Jazz music even better, also, the cymbal sounds really sweet and nicely extended on the NW1Z. Last but not least, both theN8 (tube) takes my breath away, “literally” when I am listening analytically to the saxophonist breathing through the instrument, subconsciously the timing of my breathing tries to match the saxophonist breathing.

Verdict on Giorgio by Moroder:
There is a lot going on in the track from 5:50, therefore, dynamics and soundstage dimension place the biggest role in making the music alive and perceiving that 3D imaging sense, more so than the tonality.

Frankly speaking, all the variations have more than sufficient dynamics and stage dimension to perceive the 3D imaging sense without sounding congested. Nonetheless, the two ends of the spectrum will be the NW1Z (4.4) and N8 (3.5), on the former although the stage width and height might fall slightly short compared to the N8 (3.5) the warm and laidback tonality makes it a more relaxing experience. On the latter, the slightly perceived shorter stage height is more than compensated from the stage width and due to a more neutral tonality the it sounds a little bit snappier.

Conclusion extract:
Overall, the IER-Z1R sounds good with most of the source equipment tested, except for the Sony NW-ZX1, it sounds great on DAPs which can showcase the IER-Z1R soundstage spaciousness capabilities, and it sounds even better when it is able to convey the DAP technical capabilities such as high resolution, details retrieval and dynamics.

… As for whether the IER-Z1R pairs better with the NW1Z or N8 from the comparison exercise performed. From sound fidelity point of view, without taking in consideration all other aspects that define DAPs, in my humble opinion it comes down to preference only, both brings different interpretation of sound presentation.

My personal opinion is that, the NW1Z might be better value for money in terms of having bigger margin of sound signature difference between 4.4 and 3.5 outputs. On the other hand, the N8 offers a bigger margin of stage dimension difference between the 3.5 and 4.4 outputs, while adding that sprinkle of warmth with the 3.5 (tube).

Cheers
Simon T.
 
Apr 7, 2019 at 10:56 AM Post #1,749 of 3,873
Hi everyone,

I have just posted some comparison impressions on the Sony IER-Z1R thread about source equipment (DAP) pairing. Since a big part of it was a direct comparison between Sony NW-WM1Z and the Cayin N8, thought it is relevant to share it in this thread too, please refer some extract:

Disclaimer: This is a subjective analysis based on personal preferences and experiences with equipment that I personally own, and does not mean that it is findings are applicable to other IEMs or headphones.

Basis of comparison extract:


…First thing first below is the list of DAPs used for this comparison and the daunting task to volume match the equipment based on same “Pink Noise” track played from each DAP, through the IER-Z1R, to my mobile phone microphone using Sound Meter App to reach 60dB. Below are the results except for the AR-M2. List of DAPs by released year, in addition to volume matching findings:


- Sony NW-WM1Z – 2016 / 3.5mm and 4.4mm – vol. 73
- Cayin N8 – 2018 / 3.5mm – vol. 44 (on low gain) and 4.4mm – vol. 39 (on low gain)

I have used the following 3 tracks for this exercise, all in FLAC files (since not all of the above mentioned play native DSD), and the tracks (Album, Track / Artist) are:
- Hotel California, Hotel California / Eagles
- Time Out, Take Five / The Dave Brubeck Quartet
- Random Access Memories, Giorgio by Moroder / Daft Punk

Comparison analysis extract:
…Hotel California…
There are 3 “hidden sounds” on this track for me to measure detail retrieval throughout the track (hidden sound meaning that they are masked behind more prominent sounds in the track).

First, the guitar that start-off the track, slowly fades away when Don Henley starts his singing and drums playing, with the repeating tune for most of the track but still noticeable. … Second, bassist repeating tune again in lower center throughout the track, with the IER-Z1R those notes go deep giving a nice extension. The third, it is after the track is taken over by the instruments, from 5:39 to 6:03 the bassist plays a tune and the notes are hidden in between the electric guitar…

…This section is going to be a direct IER-Z1R pairing sound comparison between the Sony NW-WM1Z (firmware 3.1) and Cayin N8 (firmware 2.2), 4.4mm balanced solid state output vs 3.5 single ended solid state output vs 3.5 Korg Nutube; and it is not indicative of how they sound with all earphones and headphones.

Here we have 2 DAPs with noticeably multiple sound signature and presentation, personally I think the WM1Z has 2 while the N8 has 2.5, the 0.5 given to the Korg Nutube tuning because it is just a minimal tweak of the 3.5 single ended solid state output which in itself sounds already amazing (more to that shortly). I was expecting a more “tubey”/sweeter/warmer presentation on the Korg Nutube, but the direction Cayin took was to maintain the same level of accuracy, analyticality, balance and spaciousness by adding a minimal sprinkle of warmth, and I respect that decision.

General stage dimensions, tonality and sound signature pairing comparison with the IER-Z1R:
WM1Z (4.4) –
Height of sound stage fall slightly short to all other variations below except for N8 (tube), width come short to the N8 (3.5 and tube) only, and depth on this track is about the same with the N8 (3.5), which is deeper than the WM1Z (3.5) and N8 (4.4 and tube). Tonality is warm-laidback, mids are slightly recessed, treble is gentle and bass is tight.

N8 (4.4) – Width of the soundstage falls short to the WM1Z (4.4) and N8 (3.5 and tube), height is perceived to be tallest with WM1Z (3.5), depth fall slightly short to the WM1Z (4.4) and N8 (3.5 and tube). Tonality is neutral-transparent, mids are dynamic, treble is airy and bass is weighty.

WM1Z (3.5) – Height of sound stage is the tallest to all other variations with the N8 (4.4), width come slightly short to all other variations, and depth on this track seems about the same with the N8 (4.4), however, falling short against the N8 (3.5 and tube). Tonality is neutral-natural, mids are intimate, treble is smooth and bass is tight.

N8 (3.5) – Width is the longest with the N8 (tube), height fall short to all variations except for N8 (tube), and depth is about the same as WM1Z (4.4) and a tiny but deeper than the N8 (tube). Tonality and sound signature are similar to the N8 (4.4), however, because the sound stage characteristic the music is presented slightly more distant (concert hall).

N8 (Tube) – The only differences to the N8 (3.5) are perceived tiny bit shorter in sound stage height, as a result of minimal sprinkle of warmth added in the sound signature. Making the bass sounding tiny bit more reverberant, treble is smooth but instead of extending upward it extends sideways (pretty sweet J and “tubey” like), and the mids are dynamic but sounding tiny bit more forward compared to the N8 (3.5).

Verdict on Hotel California:
In terms of detail retrieval based on the 3 hidden sounds (mentioned in AR-M2 write up above), the WM1Z (3.5) will probably be my choice, even if it does not sound as transparent as the N8 (4.4), because the layering of the Y axis (Height), instruments placement are better separated. Hence, the 1st and 2nd hidden sounds are more identifiable; as for the 3rd hidden sound due to slightly better mids dynamics on the N8 (4.4) becomes more audible on the N8. However, in terms of listening experience point of view, I prefer the N8 (3.5), because of the better instrument separation through the X axis (width) and perceived deeper Z axis due to slightly recessed mids making it a “concert hall” like experience.

Verdict on Take Five:
Since it is a simple track (4 instruments playing a slow Jazz tune), sound stage dimensions does not play much of a role compared to the tonality and instrument positioning. After all, Jazz is about sultry, relaxing and romantic tune.

In most rendition of this track, due to its frequency response the saxophone sound does not come from center point of the sound stage (usually slightly higher than center point), and here comes the magic trick from the N8 (tube), as suddenly we have all instruments perceivably to be more aligned. The drums from the left, the saxophone in the center and the piano to the right, hence in listening experience term N8 (tube) is enlightening. On the other hand, the WM1Z (4.4) slightly warmer and analog like tonality characteristic marries Jazz music even better, also, the cymbal sounds really sweet and nicely extended on the NW1Z. Last but not least, both theN8 (tube) takes my breath away, “literally” when I am listening analytically to the saxophonist breathing through the instrument, subconsciously the timing of my breathing tries to match the saxophonist breathing.

Verdict on Giorgio by Moroder:
There is a lot going on in the track from 5:50, therefore, dynamics and soundstage dimension place the biggest role in making the music alive and perceiving that 3D imaging sense, more so than the tonality.

Frankly speaking, all the variations have more than sufficient dynamics and stage dimension to perceive the 3D imaging sense without sounding congested. Nonetheless, the two ends of the spectrum will be the NW1Z (4.4) and N8 (3.5), on the former although the stage width and height might fall slightly short compared to the N8 (3.5) the warm and laidback tonality makes it a more relaxing experience. On the latter, the slightly perceived shorter stage height is more than compensated from the stage width and due to a more neutral tonality the it sounds a little bit snappier.

Conclusion extract:
Overall, the IER-Z1R sounds good with most of the source equipment tested, except for the Sony NW-ZX1, it sounds great on DAPs which can showcase the IER-Z1R soundstage spaciousness capabilities, and it sounds even better when it is able to convey the DAP technical capabilities such as high resolution, details retrieval and dynamics.

… As for whether the IER-Z1R pairs better with the NW1Z or N8 from the comparison exercise performed. From sound fidelity point of view, without taking in consideration all other aspects that define DAPs, in my humble opinion it comes down to preference only, both brings different interpretation of sound presentation.

My personal opinion is that, the NW1Z might be better value for money in terms of having bigger margin of sound signature difference between 4.4 and 3.5 outputs. On the other hand, the N8 offers a bigger margin of stage dimension difference between the 3.5 and 4.4 outputs, while adding that sprinkle of warmth with the 3.5 (tube).

Cheers
Simon T.

Great comparison bro! I really love How you referenced multiple songs and interpreted parts of the song to help us follow along. I mentioned this here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/king-of-daps.895618/page-7

Hopefully i can hear it for myself one if these days with the z1r’s. Right now I’m paired with the ex1000’s on the n8 & it’s really a great match. In the next couple months my plan is to test at least 3-4 other headphones/iems to find that perfect combo.
 
Apr 7, 2019 at 11:48 AM Post #1,750 of 3,873
:beerchug:
Great comparison bro! I really love How you referenced multiple songs and interpreted parts of the song to help us follow along. I mentioned this here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/king-of-daps.895618/page-7

Hopefully i can hear it for myself one if these days with the z1r’s. Right now I’m paired with the ex1000’s on the n8 & it’s really a great match. In the next couple months my plan is to test at least 3-4 other headphones/iems to find that perfect combo.

Cheers 21qz, and thanks for the message.

Totally agree with your linked post.

Reviews, impressions and opinions on something as abstract as hearing sound are highly subjective, for multiple reasons. Describing some basis for comparisons and referencing it to songs interpretation does not remove such subjectivity, however, it does help the reader in trying to understand how the basis of conclusion is arrived.

It does not mean that people will agree, because, we probably hear things differently and/or have different standards; but at least, it tries to reduce some level of subjectivity.

By the way, I am a proud EX1000 owner too :beerchug:.
 
Apr 7, 2019 at 1:44 PM Post #1,751 of 3,873
:beerchug:

Cheers 21qz, and thanks for the message.

Totally agree with your linked post.

Reviews, impressions and opinions on something as abstract as hearing sound are highly subjective, for multiple reasons. Describing some basis for comparisons and referencing it to songs interpretation does not remove such subjectivity, however, it does help the reader in trying to understand how the basis of conclusion is arrived.

It does not mean that people will agree, because, we probably hear things differently and/or have different standards; but at least, it tries to reduce some level of subjectivity.

By the way, I am a proud EX1000 owner too :beerchug:.
Awesome, so i have to ask if you can please do a comparison between z1r vs ex1000 on the n8.
 
Apr 7, 2019 at 11:04 PM Post #1,753 of 3,873
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http://en.cayin.cn/
Apr 7, 2019 at 11:06 PM Post #1,754 of 3,873
Apr 8, 2019 at 12:20 AM Post #1,755 of 3,873
Is the BB version lighter?

The BB version is 5g heavier then the SS version. So to simplified the packaging and custom handling, we have adjusted the specification of N8 to 380g +/- 10g and this will work for both SS and BB versions.
 
Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
http://en.cayin.cn/

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