Cayin N7: A Voyager of Unexplored Frontier

[DaveStarWalker]

I apologies Dave - but don't agree with you...
As a lawyer i cant tell you what i tell my clients - Compromise is EVERYTHING in life, and it is not a matter of ANY price point.
Regarding adapters - i agree, there are some bad one but here are some very good one that dont alter sound.
Comparing Aune player with X amplification to a different product with Y amplification- why ??
There are thousands ways to make an AMP - and it will not suit ALL HP and IEMs, that is for sure, since as an "inventor" - i set my goal sound and then build the AMP.

A full million device (it was the example) = compromises ?

A 2, 3, 4k dollars daps = compromises ? (I am not thinking about this Cayin dap in particular)

The same with iems, cables....

No way, sorry.

Because by reasoning like that we are therefore ready to accept anything.

Obviously, if I drive in a country lane or in a field, a Ferrari will not be suitable despite its enormous road qualities.

But then it is not a question of compromise. It just isn't made for that.

But for the dap, the minimum is to be silent. For audio devices in general.

Otherwise, simple option : take back some audio tapes and a good old Walkman.

Afterwards, the rest of the world does as it pleases. But for me, the answer, my answer is a solid NO.

 

[DaveStarWalker]

To each their own to be honest.

He feels that he doesn’t want to pay 2000€ (which is a lot of money btw) and get a sub flagship music player which does not bode well with sensitive IEMs. Fair enough.

In my own case, exactly why I bought an iBasso Dx320. It’s a flagship and it satisfies my needs + it costs less than any other flagship DAP, except may be the Sony. But then I also bought a Sony Zx707 because I felt it’s more portable while commuting.

Take a phone for example. I want a phone with everything - fast performance, latest OS etc. There might be more than one that fits the bill. In the end if I’m buying the most expensive phone on the planet, I also expect that in some ways it stands out compared to all others for “me”.

Exactly. This is it.

That being said, this Cayin interests and intrigues me, a lot. For a lot of reasons. My second message here :

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...xplored-frontier.966860/page-27#post-17425078

The chip yes, but more the discret components... The output stages seems to be very advanced.

And maybe it will be silent with my current intras. Frankly ? I think.... Yes.

Andromeda (OG) or Zeus Xra are both extreme cases....

 

[Zeppo19]

Thanks for your update, I'll ask our service engineer to check SACD-ISO with N7 specifically.

Tried more ISO files, the popping occurs on all I tried, it is only when play/pausing, NOT when skipping a track.

 

[nioh]

Exactly. This is it.

That being said, this Cayin interests and intrigues me, a lot. For a lot of reasons. My second message here :

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...xplored-frontier.966860/page-27#post-17425078

The chip yes, but more the discret components... The output stages seems to be very advanced.

And maybe it will be silent with my current intras. Frankly ? I think.... Yes.

Andromeda (OG) or Zeus Xra are both extreme cases....

I totally understand what you mean.

Purchasing a 2k euros DAP and finding out that it doesn’t work well for you will be a shocker and a huge loss. So we have to discuss and argue until we convince ourselves that we control our urges and move on to another thread.

I almost bought the N7 on the release date because I was also intrigued by this DAP which like you said is not just another Nth Delta Sigma DAP. I went till the Paypal screen and I asked myself. What am I gaining by buying another DAP and not a cheap one at that. Will I use it every day. What will I do with my other 2 flagship DAPs. Finally I cancelled the purchase because it’s too big for me. I already have a big DAP sitting at home. Unless I can sell that one for a decent price it makes no sense for me to buy another one.

I keep checking this thread still only because I like reading Andy’s technical explanations. For a non-electronics guy like me, it’s easier to understand and very interesting. He’s also much more active and responsive compared to other DAP companies on this forum.

 

[ewppl]

Purchasing a 2k euros DAP and finding out that it doesn’t work well for you will be a shocker and a huge loss

yeah, it seems like i am learning this the hard way

unless of course they accept changing the N7 with an N8ii (which is in a way is even a harder lesson but at least usable for my case)

 

[searchingtom]

3rd day with the N7 impressions continue. It is growing its organic presentation and opening up a bit more. I find myself using the EQ from the Cayin player which is something I rarely do (but may evolve to drop it later).

Two small issues.

1) Bluetooth keeps dropping on the connection to my laptop. This is always frustrating. It connects for 5 seconds and then drops. Over and over. Could be on my end. I will keep trying.

2) Album art in the Cayin player album search takes a while to load when you scroll down. Might there be a way to reduce the picture size to eliminate this ?

Otherwise I am very pleased with the purchase. I like the sound at least (if not better) than the RS8 and it certainly is a lot lighter !

 

[Frabera]

What are the main differences with the RS8 ?

 

[glpsace]

I apologize for my ignorance but would love your feedback.

I usually listen to Apple Music and therefore would like to understand if that is suitable for the N7, considering the DAC technology and the way it works.

I´m thinking of something portable, for the house to pair with a Vorzamp Pure II Pro Amp that could also work as a desktop DAC to connect to a Tube amp (Tor Audio Roger).

Is it worth the investment if you "rule out" the Amp section of the N7, or should I look elsewhere for the same price range?

I cannot find nothing that really suits me. If I consider a good quality DAC like the Hugo 2 or something similar, then I will have to use the iPhone together with it and the Vorzamp and it seems too cumbersome. If I consider a DAP alone, ruling out the very expensive ones, I question the DAC and functions of the remaining ones.

No clue yet on what to do.

 

[Z_Showmaster]

Is it worth the investment if you "rule out" the Amp section of the N

Yes, I think N7 is worth the investment because you would be tapping two of the three elements making it sound as special as it sounds.

I feel bad omitting the power amp from the discussion here but to me it's the small-signal gain stage and the DAC that are truly amazing in N7.

It's discrete and bipolar with only 100ohms on the output, which means great current-ability among other things. It's not just a high current DAC output; it's a full-fledged pre-amp stage.

As something fully balanced it'll also be able to count on common-mode rejection which the Hugo 2 isn't able to.

Apple Music will work just fine on it given the DTA OS of N7. It's an Android device that will play you the full 24/192 ALAC file like on iOS or iPadOS, without resampling.

 

[glpsace]

Yes, I think N7 is worth the investment because you would be tapping two of the three elements making it sound as special as it sounds.

I feel bad omitting the power amp from the discussion here but to me it's the small-signal gain stage and the DAC that are truly amazing in N7.

It's discrete and bipolar with only 100ohms on the output, which means great current-ability among other things. It's not just a high current DAC output; it's a full-fledged pre-amp stage.

As something fully balanced it'll also be able to count on common-mode rejection which the Hugo 2 isn't able to.

Apple Music will work just fine on it given the DTA OS of N7. It's an Android device that will play you the full 24/192 ALAC file like on iOS or iPadOS, without resampling.

Thank you so much. I'm starting to believe this is the solution I may be looking for. Cheers.

 

[Z_Showmaster]

Thank you so much. I'm starting to believe this is the solution I may be looking for. Cheers.

Happy to help. If you're curious about the small-signal gain stage that will feed your amp, perhaps wait on Andy's next post, which will discuss N7's discrete LPF.

 

[dhc0329]

may i ask what EQ you’re using on N7 ?

i thought Andy made it clear to me that technically you cannot EQ a DSD (as all files are converted into this).

All my albums are encoded in flac (96khz/24bit) so wouldn't have any issue with EQ. I might have hit that sweet spot on EQ or caps are cooked nicely with burn-in but all I know is that it really opened up immensely with great transparency and excitement. All tunes are now well harmonized beyond just a treble extension. Definitely not a dull bedtime player.

 

[searchingtom]

What are the main differences with the RS8 ?

#1 - Size - the RS8 is a very large and heavy DAP
#2 - Speed of GUI - the RS8 is faster (better internal storage capacity and buffering size). The screen is also a bit better on the RS8.
#3 - The RS8 was a bit "drier" than I expected but I did not play it past 50 hours so break-in time may have affected the sound signature (please recall I mostly listen to string quartet music and that is where I draw my comparisons from)
#4 - Price - a significantly lower cost for the N7

I prefer the N7 sound not even considering the price disparity.

 

[dhc0329]

1) Bluetooth keeps dropping on the connection to my laptop. This is always frustrating. It connects for 5 seconds and then drops. Over and over. Could be on my end. I will keep trying.

2) Album art in the Cayin player album search takes a while to load when you scroll down. Might there be a way to reduce the picture size to eliminate this ?

Otherwise I am very pleased with the purchase. I like the sound at least (if not better) than the RS8 and it certainly is a lot lighter !

I am currently using a bluetooth remote to control the device and at times fast-forwarding (although rarely) stops the tracks but haven't experienced the connection drop yet. No issue with alburm art loading so far...

 

[FooFighter]

#1 - Size - the RS8 is a very large and heavy DAP
#2 - Speed of GUI - the RS8 is faster (better internal storage capacity and buffering size). The screen is also a bit better on the RS8.
#3 - The RS8 was a bit "drier" than I expected but I did not play it past 50 hours so break-in time may have affected the sound signature (please recall I mostly listen to string quartet music and that is where I draw my comparisons from)
#4 - Price - a significantly lower cost for the N7

I prefer the N7 sound not even considering the price disparity.

So you are selling RS8 now?