Cayin N7: A Voyager of Unexplored Frontier
Mar 2, 2023 at 9:16 PM Post #541 of 1,852
Well, you are talking about 6yr old entry level non-touch screen limited functionality DAP with lo-fi ES9018 dac which does the job for you, pure black background and no need to worry about Android updates or app updates, just keep using it until battery dies. And you are happy using it with your high sensitivity IEMs while other higher res DAPs yield waterfall type of hissing. I had N7 for a very short period of time, and totally forgot to try it with Andro or Solaris, but others mentioning that it could have some low level of waterfall hissing with very sensitive IEMs. If that is #1 priority for you, which is reasonable, then cross N7 off your list and move on, trying other DAPs. For example, RS8 was dead quiet with CFA iems. Maybe that one will work for you?
When he said he doesn't really care about dynamic, all he wants is pitch black with highly sensitive IEM, I know I should try to steer him away from Cayin DAP because we always aim at the best possible dynamic and transient. I've done my part to explain why we couldn't meet his requirement, and we don't intend to. All points has make and he doesn't get it, so I rest my case.

RS8 is quieter than SP2000/SP3000 with CFA iems? Good to know, that's quite an achievement.
 
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Mar 2, 2023 at 10:04 PM Post #542 of 1,852
Ok but a 250 dollars brand new Aune m1s is dead quiet with everything....

That's my point 😭

And about one million dollars sound systems, it is just not understandable to speak of "compromise".

Then it is more a matter of compro... mission.

Inadmissible.

I listened to a few (so to speak...) "high end" said systems in this case : it really isn't glorious. 😴😪

Out of Christian charity, I'm not going to talk about Magico and Constellation for example....

Thankfully, I do have a few friends that have no compromised systems... (Full Pass class A, the very big ones, or full Mark Levinson Reference serie, Madrigal era, the very best... Period) : and there are absolutely... no compromise. Not even a tiny, tiny one.

However, we are far from the million (but still at the price of a beautiful apartment 😇).
Have you tried using the full Mark Levinson Reference series driving a pair of 100+dB sensitiveity horn speaker? Or using a pair of Audio Note Quest 8Wpc SETA to drive the Magico M6 or M9? Absolutely no compromise?

TBH, using a 500mW per channel DAP driving a pair of 115db BA IEM is not significantly different.
 
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Mar 2, 2023 at 10:19 PM Post #543 of 1,852
Have you tried using the full Mark Levinson Reference series driving a pair of 100+dB sensitiveity horn speaker? Or using a pair of Audio Note Quest 8Wpc SETA to drive the Magico M6 or M9?

😱

Quite the synergy nightmare!

Edit: And dangerous. You'd probably end up breaking the amp, or the speaker, or both, in each of those cases 🤣
 
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Mar 2, 2023 at 10:45 PM Post #544 of 1,852
What an interesting DAP.
It does staging/coherence/depth better than any DAP I’ve tried, and has addicting bass and meaty mids. Highs, general resolution and sub-bass extension is lacking compared to flagship DAPs, but I can listen to the N7 longer than any of the others. Both Class A and AB have their uses based on what IEM you use. A very unique DAP, which I’m sure some will love and some will hate.
 
Mar 2, 2023 at 11:07 PM Post #545 of 1,852
What an interesting DAP.
It does staging/coherence/depth better than any DAP I’ve tried, and has addicting bass and meaty mids. Highs, general resolution and sub-bass extension is lacking compared to flagship DAPs, but I can listen to the N7 longer than any of the others. Both Class A and AB have their uses based on what IEM you use. A very unique DAP, which I’m sure some will love and some will hate.
What's to hate? Or what do you think there might be to hate as I'm not seeing it.

At the same time, I have N6ii R01 and A01 and feel no need to upgrade.
 
Mar 2, 2023 at 11:24 PM Post #546 of 1,852
What's to hate? Or what do you think there might be to hate as I'm not seeing it.

At the same time, I have N6ii R01 and A01 and feel no need to upgrade.
I have N6ii-RO1, E02, N8ii and now N7 and it's my current best Sounding in every category... but I will see when it finally breaks-in full.
 
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Mar 2, 2023 at 11:55 PM Post #547 of 1,852
What's to hate? Or what do you think there might be to hate as I'm not seeing it.

At the same time, I have N6ii R01 and A01 and feel no need to upgrade.
I can see people saying it’s too dark or lacking resolution. I know guys that say that about the A01 compared to the Ibasso and Fiio counterparts, but for me I quite enjoy the A01 and other N6ii modules.
 
Mar 3, 2023 at 12:58 AM Post #548 of 1,852
Have you tried using the full Mark Levinson Reference series driving a pair of 100+dB sensitiveity horn speaker? Or using a pair of Audio Note Quest 8Wpc SETA to drive the Magico M6 or M9? Absolutely no compromise?

TBH, using a 500mW per channel DAP driving a pair of 115db BA IEM is not significantly different.
Lol 😂

Your examples are nonsense. Obviously, we need products that are adapted to each other. But the basis of a dap, of a (digital or analogue) source, and generally of electronics, is not to produce induced noise, as little as possible, and ideally to be dead quiet.

The full Mark Levinson Reference of my friend is connected with the Revel Salon v1. The "real" Salon. The v2 are like toys, compared to.

Here is why : the 33 and 33h amps (bi-amp) amps were specifically designed for these speakers, and vice versa. It's a very difficult electric load (83db/w/m), with an impedance that can drop to 0.5 ohm.

In addition, my friend has a ultra rare 1.2 version, notably equiped with a modified filter and modified membranes and mobile equipage : there are only 5 pairs in the world which were produced. He possesses the light grey colour. 🥰

That's why they then released the Revel Salon v2 (There were 2 development teams at the time; that's when Harman bought out Mark Levinson)... much less demanding... but compromised. 🥺

Amps 33 and 33h are designated for very high electrical output (power and current, and they are perfectly clean, fully regulated).

It's him :

https://www.murmure-audio.com/

Conversely, I have another friend equipped with JBL Everest loudspeakers (very high sensitivity), and full Audionote amplification... Mark Levinson source too (30 dac and 31 transport).

And another's with a couple of Pass XA300 amps, XP-32 preamp system and the best Esoteric digital ensemble (power, dual dac, transport, clock...). Loudspeakers are Focal STELLA Utopia III EM.

Myself, I do have a "not too bad" little system.

Etc.

But hey, it's not a c*ck contest. It's just a world that I know "a little". 😉

And also, all these systems have one thing in common : they are perfectly optimized, and silent.

And no compromise. True high end.

To return to Cayin, or other hyped daps, and even beyond the prices charged (it's something else and above all, the fruit of marketing positioning... 🫰), I find it unacceptable that these products can hiss. Not even to mention, sometimes (or too often), a high output impedance = bad engineering... 😭🥺

That's my point.

What interests me with this particular Cayin product is that it isn't an Nth dap with a delta sigma chip...

I know this Marantz product (based on the same technology) very well too :

https://www.marantz.com/fr-fr/product/cd-players/sa-10

Perfectly clear, natural and... Dead quiet. Basics.

To be continued. 👍
 
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Mar 3, 2023 at 1:02 AM Post #549 of 1,852
I can see people saying it’s too dark or lacking resolution. I know guys that say that about the A01 compared to the Ibasso and Fiio counterparts, but for me I quite enjoy the A01 and other N6ii modules.

Being too dark or lacking resolution could end up being a dealbreaker for me, unless the trade off to musicality and smoothness outweigh. I’ll find out soon enough!
 
Mar 3, 2023 at 1:12 AM Post #550 of 1,852
Mar 3, 2023 at 1:21 AM Post #551 of 1,852
When he said he doesn't really care about dynamic, all he wants is pitch black with highly sensitive IEM, I know I should try to steer him away from Cayin DAP because we always aim at the best possible dynamic and transient. I've done my part to explain why we couldn't meet his requirement, and we don't intend to. All points has make and he doesn't get it, so I rest my case.

RS8 is quieter than SP2000/SP3000 with CFA iems? Good to know, that's quite an achievement.
I am completely concerned about dynamics ! 😉

It's a joke ?

Exactly the contrary : the quieter a device, the greater the perceived dynamics are. Because there is no noise, or minimal noise.

The limitations of the Aune m1s for example are known : perfect with iems (every iem), but not powerful enough with full size headphones (except for certain models, such as the Final Sonorous VI, which drives like easy iems).

But don't make me say the opposite of what I'm saying, please. 😉

True full dynamics, (no) noise, timbres and balance : basis.

Non-negotiable. In my book.

Afterwards, the rest of the world does as it pleases. 😇😅
 
Mar 3, 2023 at 1:23 AM Post #552 of 1,852
At this price point, "compromise" is not an option.

I find that... "idea"... completely crazy... 😭

I just don't understand how it's even possible.... 🥺🤔
I apologies Dave - but don't agree with you...
As a lawyer i cant tell you what i tell my clients - Compromise is EVERYTHING in life, and it is not a matter of ANY price point.
Regarding adapters - i agree, there are some bad one but here are some very good one that dont alter sound.
Comparing Aune player with X amplification to a different product with Y amplification- why ??
There are thousands ways to make an AMP - and it will not suit ALL HP and IEMs, that is for sure, since as an "inventor" - i set my goal sound and then build the AMP.
 
Mar 3, 2023 at 2:16 AM Post #553 of 1,852
I apologies Dave - but don't agree with you...
As a lawyer i cant tell you what i tell my clients - Compromise is EVERYTHING in life, and it is not a matter of ANY price point.
Regarding adapters - i agree, there are some bad one but here are some very good one that dont alter sound.
Comparing Aune player with X amplification to a different product with Y amplification- why ??
There are thousands ways to make an AMP - and it will not suit ALL HP and IEMs, that is for sure, since as an "inventor" - i set my goal sound and then build the AMP.
To each their own to be honest.

He feels that he doesn’t want to pay 2000€ (which is a lot of money btw) and get a sub flagship music player which does not bode well with sensitive IEMs. Fair enough.

In my own case, exactly why I bought an iBasso Dx320. It’s a flagship and it satisfies my needs + it costs less than any other flagship DAP, except may be the Sony. But then I also bought a Sony Zx707 because I felt it’s more portable while commuting.

Take a phone for example. I want a phone with everything - fast performance, latest OS etc. There might be more than one that fits the bill. In the end if I’m buying the most expensive phone on the planet, I also expect that in some ways it stands out compared to all others for “me”.
 
Mar 3, 2023 at 2:20 AM Post #554 of 1,852
I've been playing around with LP6 Ti AE for about a year before letting it go. I've been sort of regretting since as I wasn't able to find the alternative and now N7. I call N7 to be a mellow out version of LP6 TI AE. It was a a little lacking in treble region in the beginning but thank God this device has a crazy responsive EQ. Now I think I got all frequencies set up nice and dripping juicy with a little adjustment. From low, mid to high I am not lacking a bit. I think I could only do this because there is no harshness while details are so microscopic in foundation. All genre's covered. In term of naturality could this even top LP6 TI? I am still in a honeymoon phase but esp for 2K, this device's ain't bad, although it could have been a little smaller.
 

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