Cayin N7: A Voyager of Unexplored Frontier

[searchingtom]

I am also planning to use it with my ZMF Vérité Closed, how are the trebles with the ZMF Atrium ? As it seems to be the weak point…

In my favorite genres, it sounds rich and lush enough without giving too much detail away.

 

[111MilesToGo]

Theoretically, you can't use PEQ or regular multi-bands EQ with DSD tracks in the digital domain, you can only do that after you converted the DSD track to 24bits or 32 bits PCM.
You can use other players APP freely, but you need to study the app thoroughly to make sure you didn't enable unnecessary format transcoding features.

@Andykong, a question please, based on this fact: In the N8ii systemwide ”Audio Settings“ you have ”DSD Gain Compensation“, which until now I liked to have at +6 dB in order to roughly match PCM and DSD volumes. Guess you have that on your other DAPs, too.

A.m. fact ^ lets me ask: How does that gain compensation work? Is it digital, in light of the above?

 

[DaveStarWalker]

All these are very valid experiences, and there is no problem holding on to your preference, you just have to understand that your preference is different from the market trend, and when you refused to compromise (change to a high impedance or low sensitive earphone, or willing to add adapters), your choice will be further narrow down. A very natural outcome logically.

And the unfortunate thing is, based on my knowledge of current market trends, it's unlikely that you'll have more choices down the road. When the IEM markets continue to develop different hybrid technologies, DAP will have to take up these challenges, to deliver enough power and dynamic for the newcomers in the next few years.

At this price point, "compromise" is not an option.

I find that... "idea"... completely crazy...

I just don't understand how it's even possible....

 

[Andykong]

i like my IEMs on harman curve, so they need a bit tweaking here and there. so yes this is very limiting in that sense. it defeats the purpose of having a native DSD DAP (N7) if i have to convert and then reconvert? and add theoretical noise/jitter on the way as well as leaving many unwanted filters on like you said (because i am not a sound engineer, and my knowledge on these things are quite limited).

perhaps N8ii would be a better match for PEQ.

now i am a bit confused. because N7 converts everything into DSD, is it that all music (even streaming) can't be EQ'd or only DSD formats ?

Yes, and that includes MQA playback. we have discussed this briefly HERE and HERE.

I can imagine that one of the rare apps which could do both PEQ plus DSD is Roon but that isn’t the main use case for N7 as it will require extra external hardware, software, subscription plus limit N7 to work in DAC mode.

Yes, Roon has a very unique way to apply PEQ to DSD without conversion to PCM, they do that in what they called 64-bit DSD format. Brian Luczkiewicz, Founder and CTO of Roon Labs has explained their process in THIS discussion: I won't say I understand everything he said, therefore I don't plan to recommend Cayin try anything like this in N7.

It is interesting to notice that one of the posters in the ROON discussion has compared "PCM to DSD" and "DSD to PCM" conversions, which quickly explained why playing back DSD on R-2R DAC is difficult whilst playing back PCM on 1-Bit DAC is relatively straightforward.

Converting DSD to PCM is a ‘lossy’ process and requires very steep filters around 30kHz to cut off the ultra-sonic noise. This type of conversion is best to avoid. On the other hand, PCM to DSD conversion is inherently low noise, once noise shaping is applied, a gentle filter at 50kHz is sufficient enough. Most DSD DAC has this type of filter built-in but not for PCM.

 

[emdeevee]

At this price point, "compromise" is not an option.

I find that... "idea"... completely crazy...

I just don't understand how it's even possible....

There are plenty of more expensive DAPs than this one. Most of its competition is more expensive.

The idea of compromise is simple IMHO. This DAP, and it's competitors, can drive just about anything you're going to put in your ears. But there might be some outliers so there's a compromise that might have to get made. Or do like everyone else seems to and add an amp like a C9 and you apparently make no compromises.

 

[Andykong]

@Andykong, a question please, based on this fact: In the N8ii systemwide ”Audio Settings“ you have ”DSD Gain Compensation“, which until now I liked to have at +6 dB in order to roughly match PCM and DSD volumes. Guess you have that on your other DAPs, too.

A.m. fact ^ lets me ask: How does that gain compensation work? Is it digital, in light of the above?

In N8ii or our other DAPs,, the PCM tracks are 6dB louder than DSD tracks, hence we offer DSD playback compensation to bring everything up to level. I tend to use +4dB most of the time.

I didn't notice the PCM tracks are 6dB louder than DSD tracks in N7

 

[Andykong]

At this price point, "compromise" is not an option.

I find that... "idea"... completely crazy...

I just don't understand how it's even possible....

Not all problems can be solved by a higher "price", even price no objective product will need to deal with its limitations and constraints. You'll be surprised that even a 1 million dollar sound system will have its compromise and limitations.

 

[Ben86]

Del

 

[Ben86]

I have had the N7 for a day now and of course it is way too early to draw any conclusions but the early impressions are very positive. The sound has a natural and organic flow with a nice timbre where I mostly listen to (string quartet and soft jazz and neoclassical). I found the pairing with the ZMF Atrium to be very synergistic.

More impressions forthcoming.

What about comparing N7 to RS8? I saw your post earlier on RS8 head-fi topic and you were impressed so much about it. So, any comments about this sound comparison would be very helpful from you

 

[DaveStarWalker]

Not all problems can be solved by a higher "price", even price no objective product will need to deal with its limitations and constraints. You'll be surprised that even a 1 million dollar sound system will have its compromise and limitations.

Ok but a 250 dollars brand new Aune m1s is dead quiet with everything....

That's my point

And about one million dollars sound systems, it is just not understandable to speak of "compromise".

Then it is more a matter of compro... mission.

Inadmissible.

I listened to a few (so to speak...) "high end" said systems in this case : it really isn't glorious.

Out of Christian charity, I'm not going to talk about Magico and Constellation for example....

Thankfully, I do have a few friends that have no compromised systems... (Full Pass class A, the very big ones, or full Mark Levinson Reference serie, Madrigal era, the very best... Period) : and there are absolutely... no compromise. Not even a tiny, tiny one.

However, we are far from the million (but still at the price of a beautiful apartment ).

 

[Frabera]

What about comparing N7 to RS8? I saw your post earlier on RS8 head-fi topic and you were impressed so much about it. So, any comments about this sound comparison would be very helpful from you

The RS8 is much more expansive...

 

[FooFighter]

The RS8 is much more expansive...

Expansive or expensive or both?

 

[Scubadevils]

N7 ordered, absolutely intrigued by this DAP… looking forward to it!

 

[twister6]

Ok but a 250 dollars brand new Aune m1s is dead quiet with everything....

That's my point

And about one million dollars sound systems, it is just not understandable to speak of "compromise".

Then it is more a matter of compro... mission.

Inadmissible.

I listened to a few (so to speak...) "high end" said systems in this case : it really isn't glorious.

Out of Christian charity, I'm not going to talk about Magico and Constellation for example....

Thankfully, I do have a few friends that have no compromised systems... (Full Pass class A, the very big ones, or full Mark Levinson Reference serie, Madrigal era, the very best... Period) : and there are absolutely... no compromise. Not even a tiny, tiny one.

However, we are far from the million (but still at the price of a beautiful apartment ).

Well, you are talking about 6yr old entry level non-touch screen limited functionality DAP with lo-fi ES9018 dac which does the job for you, pure black background and no need to worry about Android updates or app updates, just keep using it until battery dies. And you are happy using it with your high sensitivity IEMs while other higher res DAPs yield waterfall type of hissing. I had N7 for a very short period of time, and totally forgot to try it with Andro or Solaris, but others mentioning that it could have some low level of waterfall hissing with very sensitive IEMs. If that is #1 priority for you, which is reasonable, then cross N7 off your list and move on, trying other DAPs. For example, RS8 was dead quiet with CFA iems. Maybe that one will work for you?

 

[BlankName]

N7 ordered, absolutely intrigued by this DAP… looking forward to it!

A comparison with other DAPs (including H7) would be well appreciated.