[asdfasdf]

How does the E01 compare/share similarities with AK SE100? Both have similar ESS DAC, I'm curious whether they sound similar to each

 

[MarkParity]

How does the E01 compare/share similarities with AK SE100? Both have similar ESS DAC, I'm curious whether they sound similar to each

Good question, I don't have the SE100 but I do own the E01. The DAC chip used is only one part of the equation though. I'm prepared to bet the discrete class A/AB output stage in the E01 makes a difference to the sound vs the AK DAP, but how much?

 

[Andykong]

Since the last update I understand that the HiBy music app now supports MQA. Does this mean that it can now connect to and stream music from TIDAL?

I think the previous person who replied to you misunderstood your question. Cayin N6ii was certified to support mqa unfolding in hw when using Tidal app or playing standalone MQA flac files. HibyMusic app was not updated to function as UAPP. Unless there is some secret hidden feature

Quite definitely, HiBy Music app cannot connect to HiBy, so far, to the best of my knowledge, only UAPP can do that.

 

[Andykong]

It could be another bug from the FW update. @Andykong any ETA on the next FW update to address these issues? For me the N6ii is totally unusable now. Luckily I have an R8 coming in a couple of weeks, which leads me to think that I would probably sell my N6ii. I don’t see a point of keeping something that’s unusable.

That’s fine. N6ii for me is unusable at the moment. I’m not looking for sound improvement with R8, what I’m after is better battery life (my E02 only lasts 6.5-7 hrs), better UI speed, and more power output.

We are working on a new beta firmware during this weekend, if we can solve the problem with this firmware, we should be able to release a new firmware by early next week, but before I receive green light from engineer, I don't have a firm ETA.

Sound strange to me, you said N6ii is not useable because we can allow user to set digital filter, that is a sound related problem, I fully understand this is annoying for someone who put audio on top priority, but when you said you are not looking for sound improvement with R8, I am confused.

Anyway, just to confirm that we have been working non-stop to solve the digital filter problem. MQA implementation related to digital filters, we must make sure our bug fix does not affect MQA before we release a new firmware.

 

[Andykong]

My video review is up:

This is very informative, thank you very much.

 

[normie610]

Sound strange to me, you said N6ii is not useable because we can allow user to set digital filter, that is a sound related problem, I fully understand this is annoying for someone who put audio on top priority, but when you said you are not looking for sound improvement with R8, I am confused.

Yes it’s unusable not in terms of function but the sound becomes unbearable with my Z1R. I said I use N6ii exclusively with Z1R with the slow roll off linear phase filter, as my other IEMs do not have good synergy with E02 (with any of the filters), therefore N6ii is unusable for me. As for the R8, I’ve already placed a pre-order before the flawed FW upgrade so it has nothing to do with that. Why I order R8? Because I need a DAP with better battery life than E02, system-wide EQ, smoother UI, more power output and a sound quality at least as good as E02 (if not better).

 

[Andykong]

I have an issue when playing some songs since I got the E02 board. Sometimes the first second of a song is skipped and the song actually starts with that first bit missing. It therefore ruins the intro and is pretty annoying. It doesn’t happen on every song and I cannot see a pattern to it, but it happens enough that I would like to solve it. Does anyone else have this problem and can it be corrected?

Same here. E02 out of the box - and the same problem no matter which player you use - uapp or hiby.
I think we might want to hear the official feedback regarding this problem. Yes, @Andykong?

Just to confirm, the skipping problem only happen on E02, it won't happen with E01. Theoretically both Audio Motherboards are ESS based, so there is a large chance that they'll encounter.

As someone has mentioned, does it happen when you change between PCM and DSD? changed to a different sampling frequency rate? Change to a different format (e.g. FLAC to AIFF?)

We have run into similar problem with N5ii, and the problem was solved subsequently. Not sure if this is the same problem, I need to gather more information before I submit the bug to Engineer.

 

[Andykong]

One problem that has emerged is that, when playing a Tidal Masters track, 88.1 or 96 kHz will appear at the top Initially and there’s a lag before it registers the next two unfoldings. When it switches to eg 384 kHz, there is an interruption to the track. It’s only half a second, but very annoying. Anyone else experienced this? It didn’t happen immediately after the update was done. But now it’s every time.

Is this Audio Motherboard related? Does it happen with downloaded MQA tracks? or happen with all Audio Motherboard? Can you download a few MQA track from 2L and verify whether the problem is related to everything under MQA or just Tidal Master.

The MQA implementation varied quite a lot among different Audio Motherboards. so it is important to clarify the situation first.

 

[Deferenz]

Just to confirm, the skipping problem only happen on E02, it won't happen with E01. Theoretically both Audio Motherboards are ESS based, so there is a large chance that they'll encounter.

As someone has mentioned, does it happen when you change between PCM and DSD? changed to a different sampling frequency rate? Change to a different format (e.g. FLAC to AIFF?)

We have run into similar problem with N5ii, and the problem was solved subsequently. Not sure if this is the same problem, I need to gather more information before I submit the bug to Engineer.

I only listen to Tidal, both online and offline. I will do some checking and report back.

 

[111MilesToGo]

I‘m trying to understand what the MQA hype is all about. Please, I have NO intention at all to get involved in flame wars.

To me, MQA looks a bit like “history repeating“. I see some principal similarities to HDCD (High-Definition Compatible Digital) invented in the early 1990s:

• HDCD did strive to overcome the limitations in dynamic range / amplitude resolution of the 16-bit Redbook CD. 20 bits are encoded into the 16 CD bits by embedding control codes deep into the least significant bit. As a 16-bit stream, HDCD remained compatible with every CD player; licensed HDCD players did / do unfold the full 20 bits. After some time, software solutions became available; Microsoft bought the technology and put it into their Windows Media Player, and certain people reverse-engineered it and made their software widely available.
• Today, MQA strives to overcome the timing and phase limitations / errors resulting from the filterings necessary in digital audio. MQA employs digital folding and unfolding in order to use a 16-bit / 44.1 or 48 kHz stream as a basis that can be transmitted at reasonable bandwidth consumption. The original recording is at much higher sampling rates like 352.8 or 384 kHz.

I hope to have been able to reproduce the basic principles correctly - pls feel free to add and correct. Looks like similar basics in HDCD and MQA. The similarities extend even to the “gimmick“ of lighting a little indicator light on the hardware.

Similarities of HDCD and MQA to my understanding do also include the hot discussions on whether the gains in audio quality are worth the efforts, or even are audible or not.

I just would like to make sure I understood things correctly on quite a basic level. Please also refer to e.g. this post by @Taz777:

I would just go by the sampling frequency. The base sample rate is almost always going to be either 44.1kHz or 48kHz. The first unfold will double this sample rate. The second and third unfolds usually happen together. Each unfold doubles the sample rate. Here's a table I created to show this:

The first unfold is usually done in software. The second and third are usually done in hardware. Each unfold essentially doubles the sample rate. So you get:

Base sample rate = x 1

First unfold = Base sample rate x 2

Second unfold = First unfold x 2

Third unfold = Second unfold x 2

Remember that the second and third unfolds are usually done together - i.e. you don't normally end up with the sample rate at the second unfold unless your DAC cannot handle the sample rate that the third unfold would produce.

What we had before this latest firmware update was just the first unfold in software (i.e. the TIDAL app or the UAPP app with the MQA add-on acting as an MQA Core Decoder). What we now get with the update is the N6ii acting as an MQA Renderer - so it takes the first unfold from an app (TIDAL, HiBy) and performs the second and third unfolds (depending on the module/DAC capability). The T01 is limited in its top sampling rate so that's why it's limited to the second unfold.

That's my understanding at the moment! Happy to be corrected.

To end this post, I would like to bring a question of mine forward: So now the N6ii can handle MQA, and hopefully does it flawlessly with the next firmware update 2.x. Marvellous (at least to some or many)! But what about tiny chances to teach our beloved DAP to decode HDCD material? The patents have expired, the software decoder is freely available (e.g. in the ffmpeg library). Any intentions to bring HDCD to the Cayin or HiBy Music Apps? Or maybe that capability is already implemented in some audio player.

Remark: There are quite some HDCD-mastered CDs out there, many more than Grateful Dead and Joni Mitchell or Neil Young. Incidentally or not, the original HDCD encoder by Pacific Microsonics simply / arguably was one of the best A-to-D converters of all times.

 

[KevP]

Is this Audio Motherboard related? Does it happen with downloaded MQA tracks? or happen with all Audio Motherboard? Can you download a few MQA track from 2L and verify whether the problem is related to everything under MQA or just Tidal Master.

The MQA implementation varied quite a lot among different Audio Motherboards. so it is important to clarify the situation first.

I will try that today and report back

 

[KevP]

I will try that today and report back

I’ve tried a few tracks from 2L and then played the same track in Tidal Master. Not only do I not get the same problem, but the quality is many times better on the same track as an MQA track from 2L than it is on Tidal

 

[epiccheng]

We are working on a new beta firmware during this weekend, if we can solve the problem with this firmware, we should be able to release a new firmware by early next week, but before I receive green light from engineer, I don't have a firm ETA.

Sound strange to me, you said N6ii is not useable because we can allow user to set digital filter, that is a sound related problem, I fully understand this is annoying for someone who put audio on top priority, but when you said you are not looking for sound improvement with R8, I am confused.

Anyway, just to confirm that we have been working non-stop to solve the digital filter problem. MQA implementation related to digital filters, we must make sure our bug fix does not affect MQA before we release a new firmware.

Hi Andy, I've noticed the digital filter changing, when the bit rate of the music file playing changes. For instance, when the initial song that I'm listening to is FLAC (44.1), then when the next shuffled song is a 384 starts playing, then the digital filter automatically changes back to the first one on the list (fast roll off minimal) from the pre-set one that I initially chose (slow roll off linear). I hope this doesn't make things more confusing, Thanks.

 

[Deferenz]

Just to confirm, the skipping problem only happen on E02, it won't happen with E01. Theoretically both Audio Motherboards are ESS based, so there is a large chance that they'll encounter.

As someone has mentioned, does it happen when you change between PCM and DSD? changed to a different sampling frequency rate? Change to a different format (e.g. FLAC to AIFF?)

We have run into similar problem with N5ii, and the problem was solved subsequently. Not sure if this is the same problem, I need to gather more information before I submit the bug to Engineer.

Hello @Andykong I’ve done some testing. I listen to Tidal and have tried both online streaming and offline download. Songs are in three groups: 44.1k, 352.8k and 384k. (Before the firmware update for MQA it would have been 44.1k, 88.2k and 96k for the same tracks) I took a playlist and moved songs around so that there was a good spread of having different kHz next to each other. My playlist was 40 songs and the skipping happened on 4 songs. On each occasion the skipped bit of the intro happened on a 44.1k song, but this was when it immediately followed after a 352.8k or 384k song. It didn’t happen on any other combination. I then moved those 4 affected songs around so that they were all immediately after another 44.1k song. This time the 4 affected songs played fine with no skipping at all.

I have found a good track to test this on. It is a folk song called ‘Here’s the Tender Coming’ by The Unthanks. I normally use this song to test female vocals. What is good about this track is that the singing starts immediately and so you can tell exactly where the skipped part is. The lyrics start, ‘Here’s the Tender Coming...’ but when this track follows a 352.8k or 384k song it goes, ‘....he Tender Coming...’

I hope that is of some help.

I would also mention that this also happened on the E02 before the firmware update.

 

[Andykong]

Hello @Andykong I’ve done some testing. I listen to Tidal and have tried both online streaming and offline download. Songs are in three groups: 44.1k, 352.8k and 384k. (Before the firmware update for MQA it would have been 44.1k, 88.2k and 96k for the same tracks) I took a playlist and moved songs around so that there was a good spread of having different kHz next to each other. My playlist was 40 songs and the skipping happened on 4 songs. On each occasion the skipped bit of the intro happened on a 44.1k song, but this was when it immediately followed after a 352.8k or 384k song. It didn’t happen on any other combination. I then moved those 4 affected songs around so that they were all immediately after another 44.1k song. This time the 4 affected songs played fine with no skipping at all.

I have found a good track to test this on. It is a folk song called ‘Here’s the Tender Coming’ by The Unthanks. I normally use this song to test female vocals. What is good about this track is that the singing starts immediately and so you can tell exactly where the skipped part is. The lyrics start, ‘Here’s the Tender Coming...’ but when this track follows a 352.8k or 384k song it goes, ‘....he Tender Coming...’

I hope that is of some help.

I would also mention that this also happened on the E02 before the firmware update.

To conclude, the skipping occurs when you switch from 352.8KHz and 384kHz to 44.1kHz, but it won't happen when you switch from 44.1khz to 352.8kHz or 384kHz?