[twister6]

How is the heat, will I be able to put it in my pocket? As much as I love my N8ii, it just too bloody hot.

Wasn't too bad when I tested it. But I prefer to answer this question when I have the final production unit (for review, coming soon) with the final fw in my hands, not the final pre-production unit used at the show for the demo.

 

[mt877]

Well, N3U is a stand-alone DAP to begin with. But since people were asking how to use it for streaming, I tested it with my smartphone. Also, I don't believe Woo Audio was at CanJam NYC, would have loved to test it otherwise. But from the spec, their Tube-mini dongle is almost as long as N3U dap and looks like a big USB stick without a battery. Plus, 1W @ 8ohms max output can translate into a heavy battery drain while connected to your smartphone, and it costs $500. Tube-mini sounds like a good solution for demanding headphones and is probably better to use with your laptop as a source.

I believe the N3U has better output power... max 600mW from 4.4Bal with 32Ω.

Compared to the Tube-mini dongle's max 1W with 8Ω.

Maybe not as simple as just halving the power when doubling the impedance, but here goes anyways. Probably gives a good rough estimate of the power at 32Ω.

1W @ 8Ω
500mW @ 16Ω
250mW @ 32Ω

 

[twister6]

I believe the N3U has better output power... max 600mW from 4.4Bal with 32Ω.

Compared to the Tube-mini dongle's max 1W with 8Ω.

Maybe not as simple as just halving the power when doubling the impedance, but here goes anyways. Probably gives a good rough estimate of the power at 32Ω.

1W @ 8Ω
500mW @ 16Ω
250mW @ 32Ω

I was looking at it from a different perspective. Regardless of the output power, N3U doesn't have to depend on the external source power since it has a built-in internal battery. While a dongle like Woo Tube-mini will have to draw power from a source. Now, if Woo Tube-mini has a max spec of 1W @ 8ohm, then P=V*I=R*(I^2) => I = SQRT (P/R) = 354mA. These are ideal case paper calculations without accounting for losses due to heat dissipation, voltage drop through USB cable, the efficiency of various components, etc., all of which can drive the actual current draw from your smartphone closer to 390mA (assuming a 10% increase). Again, lots of assumption goes into this, but from what I have seen while testing other dongles and monitoring the current draw of the USB port, based on their max spec the current draw doesn't change too much when you use IEMs with either lower or higher impedance. But anyway, I don't want to get off the main topic of N3U

 

[mt877]

I was looking at it from a different perspective. Regardless of the output power, N3U doesn't have to depend on the external source power since it has a built-in internal battery. While a dongle like Woo Tube-mini will have to draw power from a source. Now, if Woo Tube-mini has a max spec of 1W @ 8ohm, then P=V*I=R*(I^2) => I = SQRT (P/R) = 354mA. These are ideal case paper calculations without accounting for losses due to heat dissipation, voltage drop through USB cable, the efficiency of various components, etc., all of which can drive the actual current draw from your smartphone closer to 390mA (assuming a 10% increase). Again, lots of assumption goes into this, but from what I have seen while testing other dongles and monitoring the current draw of the USB port, based on their max spec the current draw doesn't change too much when you use IEMs with either lower or higher impedance. But anyway, I don't want to get off the main topic of N3U

Very nice! I just wanted to show from my simple calc that the N3U will outperform the Woo Tube-mini, have it's own battery and is a full blown DAP (minus Wifi & BT), not just a dongle. When you consider that, it's all +++'s for the N3U.

 

[gadus]

I have the mini tube, it's a great device with a lot of power,
Easily pushes the Expanse and HD800,
I didn't see that the battery on the source device ran out very quickly,
But of course that's not the topic of the thread,
In any case, the n3u looks great and I'm seriously thinking of buying it,

 

[jotaerre]

Do you all approve of the battery consumption and life or duration?

 

[mt877]

Do you all approve of the battery consumption and life or duration?

Here's the battery life of the N3Pro, the N3Ultra is getting slightly better duration, plus we get tube modes for balanced output now. I guess Cayin would've needed to make the N3U thicker to put in a much chunkier, higher capacity battery(?).

 

[Andykong]

"When the tubes are close to antennas or wireless devices, users may hear a noise like a "sizzling" sound through the headphones, which severely affects the audio experience, turning the carefully designed tube sound into a potential flaw. These issues were experienced in our previous models, the N8 and N3Pro, which featured OTA wireless updating and bidirectional Bluetooth/Wi-Fi music transfer, necessitating internal antennas. Many users reported noise when listening to music when they selected vacuum tube timbre, and the problem was typically resolved by instructing them to turn off the wireless function after receiving a photo of the device's screen during playback."

Using the M3 Ultra when it is lying on the laptop or right next to it with WiFi and BT turned on as in the photo below - does it not affect the sound quality?

If you are referring to wireless interference, there are a lot of possibilities. If we sit down and try to reason the question thoroughly, the result might be affected by one or several issues:

1. The strength of the RF energy of the computer/mobile device is a combination of:
   • hardware capability
   • software/firmware setting
   • operation status (standby vs connected vs fetching)
2. The distance of the device from DAP
3. The position of the devices

So there can be different outcomes and we can't falsify others observations simply because we are experiencing something different. In the long run, user experience tells us what we should do when we run into a problem. For instance, a lot of solid-state amplifier users probably aren't aware that installing the tube cage will attenuate wireless interference.

Point 2 is obvious, and so is point 1 but we probably won't be aware that the actual variation of RF energy can be very significant even across different brands of similarly priced mobile phones.

Point 3 might have been unexpected until I pointed it out. For instance, because the JAN6418 is side-mounted on the left side of the DAP, if you place the mobile phone on the left-hand side of the N3Ultra, the RF interference will be significantly higher than stacking the two devices or placing the mobile phone on the right-hand side of the DAP.

Now let me come back to the original question. Using the M3 Ultra when it is lying on the laptop or right next to it with WiFi and BT turned on as in the photo below - does it not affect the sound quality? I would say very unlikely because the RF interference of the laptop is very location-based. The RF antenna is a very small component inside the computer, so there are a lot of placement options that will minimize the RF interference between the computer and the N3Ultra DAP. On the other hand, if someone knows exactly where is the hotspot of RF interference of the computer and places the N3Ultra right adjacent to that hotspot, then yes, the law of physics is cruel, you can use it to solve your problem, or it will hurt you if you didn't use it wisely.

 

[Andykong]

Please check out the N3Ultra webpage on the Cayin website

 

[jotaerre]

Here's the battery life of the N3Pro, the N3Ultra is getting slightly better duration, plus we get tube modes for balanced output now. I guess Cayin would've needed to make the N3U thicker to put in a much chunkier, higher capacity battery(?).

Ok...this result is more encouraging. It didn't seem like an achievement to me if in the end the battery life was as originally declared. Thanks for answering.

Although the lowest values stated above continue to be declared on the official website.

 

[sofastreamer]

Very nice! I just wanted to show from my simple calc that the N3U will outperform the Woo Tube-mini, have it's own battery and is a full blown DAP (minus Wifi & BT), not just a dongle. When you consider that, it's all +++'s for the N3U.

keep in mind, that a battery powered device has a much shorter life span, as the battery is going to die within 2-3 yrs.

 

[mt877]

keep in mind, that a battery powered device has a much shorter life span, as the battery is going to die within 2-3 yrs.

I think that the battery will last much longer than 2-3 yrs. Maybe you can ask N3Pro owners how the battery is holding up. It would be nice if these devices were designed for easy battery replacement in mind.

 

[baneand]

I feel like not puttining the wifi adapter is a bit too extreme. Maybe a hardware switch to easily turn it on/off with a power cut instead of totally removing it could be possible, just a thought for future versions. This sounds more like a marketing trick to show the audiophiles how dedicated Cayin is to the sound

 

[Murgatroid]

I feel like not puttining the wifi adapter is a bit too extreme. Maybe a hardware switch to easily turn it on/off with a power cut instead of totally removing it could be possible, just a thought for future versions. This sounds more like a marketing trick to show the audiophiles how dedicated Cayin is to the sound

I'm pretty sure marketing and sales would MUCH prefer Wifi (and BT) to be part of the package. As Andy has said, it was an engineering decision to remove all wireless. Andy addresses the reasons why in earlier posts.

 

[Andykong]

I feel like not puttining the wifi adapter is a bit too extreme. Maybe a hardware switch to easily turn it on/off with a power cut instead of totally removing it could be possible, just a thought for future versions. This sounds more like a marketing trick to show the audiophiles how dedicated Cayin is to the sound

Interesting hypothesis.

For the record, N3Ultra is a major update of N3Pro that was launched 3.5 years ago. We have removed the WiFi function from N3Pro, I am pretty sure if are doing this for a marketing trick, 3.5 years is more than long enough.

We have explained our decision on the opening post of this thread, and I shall extract part of the discussion for your reference:
Additionally, due to the production processes of the time, the JAN6418, or traditional vacuum tube products (as opposed to the KORG Nutube 6P1), have very weak resistance to interference from wireless signals. When the tubes are close to antennas or wireless devices, users may hear a noise like a "sizzling" sound through the headphones, which severely affects the audio experience, turning the carefully designed tube sound into a potential flaw. These issues were experienced in our previous models, the N8 and N3Pro, which featured OTA wireless updating and bidirectional Bluetooth/Wi-Fi music transfer, necessitating internal antennas. Many users reported noise when listening to music when they selected vacuum tube timbre, and the problem was typically resolved by instructing them to turn off the wireless function after receiving a photo of the device's screen during playback.