[groucho69]

Update on our recovery from Typhoon Hato.

https://www.facebook.com/CayinAudio/posts/320114925066407

Thank you for the update. So glad that you are all OK!

 

[Andykong]

Why does the N3 start to create cracking/popping noise when on usb dac after a while and then disconnects and then says usb unrecognized device until I restart the computer ? Is it a power issue ? I've tried all usb dacs mode including slowest/safest and I've tried with 2 computers straight from USB motherboard, same thing. Any ideas ?

Is there any work around for using the n3 as a DAC without popping noises? I was looking forward to using to using it at uni this year. I'm wondering if using an actual usb c to usb c cable on my laptop would make a difference?

I too just hooked up mine to see what the fuss is about. On my main box, I got not a single pop. On a slow laptop, I got the faint occasional pop as gLer did. It seems that a lot of the popping must be related to computer performance, probably an issue with the buffer not being able to be filled by the computer on a timely basis. I had a Teac US-800 a while ago that did the same thing when the computer was under load - it would go out of sync and get a popping/ticking sound almost like a scratched CD back in the day without a soft mute circuit.

My main box is a Dual Octacore Xeon running at 3.4GHz (2x E5-2560 v2) with 128GB of RAM and Win 10...it obviously had no problems decoding high bitrate files and never popped once. No matter what the load, it played smoothly, just as the audio playing simultaneously from my Motu (on Firewire) does.

The laptop was a Sandy Bridge i5-2410M (single mobile dual core) with 8GB running both Win 7 and 10 and got the occasional pop, especially when I would load the processor with something like a Visual Studio compile. I also experienced a few pops when I'd first change into a new track when the track was high bitrate, such as 24/192 or DSD. I also noticed that on the laptop, if I had the N3 connected to the same usb root hub that was being used by another device, it was more affected. I had the same issues with the Teac US-800 that I would occasionally carry for portable tracking and playback. This laptop has 3 external USB ports - two of them share a root hub and the third only has one physical port connected to it's own (different) root hub. On the shared ports, both the US-800 and N3 would pop if I had an external usb disk connected to the other port and started copying (disk copying is much higher bandwidth than audio). When I'd move the US-800 or N3 to the single/unshared port, I got less popping, albeit still getting some.

The cable has nothing to do with the popping - it's a wire feeding a digital signal. So it'll either connect, not connect, or randomnly disconnect if the wire was bad.

Ok, so let's start a mini poll. I invite all users here to connect their N3 to their computers, and play a selection of files over headphones and listen for pops/cracks/issues. Then come back here and simply report back. I'll start: iMac 27" 2011 - Sierra OS - no pops. Mac mini 2013 - Sierra OS - no pops.

As usual, whenever we run into a problem, @docholliday will contribute at his best as our consultant, and @gLer will help out to get things coordinated. I am truly honored to have you two in our online N3 community, you are the kind of customers that make us feel proud with. I sincerely hope I can run into customers like you in my next product thread.

@mer, @chellity and several other users who has raised their concern about pop sound when N3 operates in USB DAC mode, we are sorry that our product has not functioned perfectly as specified in your setup. We’ll look into it carefully and if we identified issues that can be resolved in our end, we’ll definitely include it in our optimization plan. gLer has started a poll on this issue, this is a very helpful move and I am sure we can gathered some insight to the issue. I have asked my assistant to followup with the situation closely.

To explore the issue thoroughly, we need to have the following information:

• N3 firmware number
• USB TypeC cable used in the connection: stock cable in N3 package? Third party cable (please provide brand name)
• Windows OS information: Window 7/8/8.1/10? Version number? (we know 1607 and 1703 might have compatibility problem)
• PC hardware information: just rough data about CPU and RAM size.

For those who reported that they have the pop sound in their system, Cayinsupport will PM you for additional detail, we need to serial number of your N3 in order to rule out if this is a production batch issue.

Once again we are sorry for the inconvenience caused, we hope to find the solution to the problem ASAP and let our customer enjoy our product as we have advertised.

One last comment: we cannot rule out the possibility that the cable is contributed to the pop noise. USB is functioned as a digital cable in these scenarios, so we probably expect the digital bitstream should not be affected like a analogue interconnect. I agree to that in principle and wouldn’t doubt that if we are dealing with Coaxial or AES/EBU connection. However, please be reminded that USB cable also serves as a low-voltage electrical connection between N3 and the computer. The electrical current are passing from PC to N3 “concurrently” alongside the USB bitstream, so if the cable are not properly insulated, and if the USB power supply from the computer are not spark-free, then there is a chance that the USB bitstream will suffer electrical interference.

If you don’t buy my observation, I won’t argue with you on that, let treat this as a hypothesis at this moment and include it as a “may-be” factor in our subsequent exploration.

 

[Andykong]

Doh, I posted right at the same time as Andy, I hadn't even seen his posting - the "In other news" isn't meant to point to his posting! It was meant to point to my previous OC test posting!

Andy, looks like your work is cut out for you! I hope those injured get well soon and glad to see that spirits are high!

Praise the Lord that we are still intact and recovering gradually. Our QA department will be fully occupied for a while and that implies software testing (i.e., the pop sound at DAC mode) will need to wait for a while.

I have been busy with new products launch after the Hong Kong High End AV show. We have announced iDAP-6 (http://en.cayin.cn/products_info?itemid=109) on our website few days ago and I am busy with the user manual of this new product right now. I wrote the original proposal to develop this product a year ago, so I am the natural choice to complete the documentation. And we'll have a new DAP scheduled for September originally, but now I am not so sure about the launch date as some of the material have been damaged and we need to go through the Supply Chain process again.

Cayinsupport works with me closely on the N3 thread, she'll alert me when there are issues that I should get involved, and I'll jump in ASAP, hopefully the overall service is maintained at satisfactory level even when I am not reading every post in this thread very day.

Once again, thank you very much for your contribution in N3 online community, sincerely appreciated.

 

[Andykong]

not bit perfect... but almost... this was the answer for Andy when the users were asking for the truth haha

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...oax-out-for-150.833932/page-108#post-13463244

Sorry, can I offer my version of the story?

I explained Cayin's take on the digital out issue AS SOON AS I read the questions on the forum. I didn't hide the detail and then pushed to tell the truth as your have described.

 

[Andykong]

Thank you for the update. So glad that you are all OK!

Thank you very much for your concern, we need every bit of encouragement in order to get back on track promptly.

 

[Andykong]

Cayin have admitted on this thread that there is an issue with popping noises when using the N3 as a USB DAC so it's hardly a wild accusation, it's an established fact that has been confirmed by the manufacturer.

If you are referring to my previous statement about mild pop sound during changed of music format (especially from PCM to DSD and vice versa) caused by AK4490, I believe we are dealing with a very different issue here because the pop sound don't just happen at the beginning of a song. Lets handle the issues independently. I don't recall I have make any statement that USB DAC of N3 so far.

 

[eaglesgift]

If you are referring to my previous statement about mild pop sound during changed of music format (especially from PCM to DSD and vice versa) caused by AK4490, I believe we are dealing with a very different issue here because the pop sound don't just happen at the beginning of a song. Lets handle the issues independently. I don't recall I have make any statement that USB DAC of N3 so far.

No, I wasn't referring to that. I believe when this topic came up a while ago, you said you were aware of the issue but were unable to resolve it.

EDIT: I looked back and it was your colleague who made the post, stating that it was a chip limitation and something you were therefore unable to resolve with the current model. Have you changed your mind now then?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...oax-out-for-150.833932/page-225#post-13645416

To be completely straight with you, I'm not interested in this issue one way or the other as I have no plans to use my N3 as a USB DAC. I only commented on it because other posters claimed there was no such problem and accused chellity of making 'wild accusations'. I thought this was most unfair because I knew that you (or your team) had already acknowledged the problem. Apparently you want to encourage this kind of customer though, (the kind that insults others) so I'll leave you to it.

 

[Andykong]

No, I wasn't referring to that. I believe when this topic came up a while ago, you said you were aware of the issue but were unable to resolve it.

EDIT: I looked back and it was your colleague who made the post, stating that it was a chip limitation and something you were therefore unable to resolve with the current model. Have you changed your mind now then?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...oax-out-for-150.833932/page-225#post-13645416

To be completely straight with you, I'm not interested in this issue one way or the other as I have no plans to use my N3 as a USB DAC. I only commented on it because other posters claimed there was no such problem and accused chellity of making 'wild accusations'. I thought this was most unfair because I knew that you (or your team) had already acknowledged the problem. Apparently you want to encourage this kind of customer though, (the kind that insults others) so I'll leave you to it.

Now that explained the confusion. My assistant has quoted the wrong answer in the FAQ when she response to that post, I apology on her behalf for causing confusion to you and to everyone reading this thread. The USB DAC poping noise is not a DAC chipset limitation from what we understand right now. The DAC pop noise will only appear at the beginning of a song and is more noticeable when it involve algorithm change (e.g, from {PCM to DSD or vice versa). The USB-DAC poping noise appears all through the song and remain the same level with or without change of audio algorithm.

On the other hand, I have no idea how you come to the conclusion that I want to encourage a customer insulting other customer. Are you referring to my thankful statement to docholliday? I quoted one post from docholliday and I thank him for what he did on that post. Are you saying that if i want to thank or endorse someone, I need to go through each and every post, making sure they are 100% valid and "praisable" before I can thank him for his contribution?

 

[eaglesgift]

Now that explained the confusion. My assistant has quoted the wrong answer in the FAQ when she response to that post, I apology on her behalf for causing confusion to you and to everyone reading this thread. The USB DAC poping noise is not a DAC chipset limitation from what we understand right now. The DAC pop noise will only appear at the beginning of a song and is more noticeable when it involve algorithm change (e.g, from {PCM to DSD or vice versa). The USB-DAC poping noise appears all through the song and remain the same level with or without change of audio algorithm.

On the other hand, I have no idea how you come to the conclusion that I want to encourage a customer insulting other customer. Are you referring to my thankful statement to docholliday? I quoted one post from docholliday and I thank him for what he did on that post. Are you saying that if i want to thank or endorse someone, I need to go through each and every post, making sure they are 100% valid and "praisable" before I can thank him for his contribution?

You can do whatever you want Mr Kong. I was merely pointing out that patronising other customers is not really helping them but I have no interest in discussing that matter or the N3 with you any further, as I already told you.

 

[velasfloyd]

Sorry, can I offer my version of the story?

I explained Cayin's take on the digital out issue AS SOON AS I read the questions on the forum. I didn't hide the detail and then pushed to tell the truth as your have described.

Yes, I know. Thats the reason I put a "haha", you misunderstood the sense of my post (or I wrote it the wrong way). I know sometimes it pass some time before you read here and answer as much questions as possible all together. I just remembered back then the people was very aggressive, like demanding an answer about the bit perfect topic, like: "I want to know if it is bit perfect or I will burn the complete city!!!".... Sometimes reading here I think some people have a very bad attitude. So thats the reason I put "the truth"... like if people were demanding the truth because cayin were hiding it (again, of course is not the case)

 

[BogdanUK]

Sadly I also have the pop sound in DAC mode, as I use the N3 mainly in DAC mode. The pop sound can be heard at the beginning of each song but mostly it is random.

• N3 firmware is 2.1
• USB TypeC to USB TypeC cable from Anker (Cayin cable it is not working properly meaning Win 10 doesn't recognize the N3)
• Windows 10 Home x64 1703
• PC hardware information: Asus ROG GL502VT gaming laptop (i7-6700HQ, Intel® HM170 Chipset, 8 GB DDR4 2133MHz, 128GB SATA3 SSD + 1TB 7200RPM SATA HDD, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970M 3GB GDDR5 VRAM)
• Headphones: Audio-Technica WS1100iS Solid Bass

 

[spoonspoon]

Sadly I also have the pop sound in DAC mode, as I use the N3 mainly in DAC mode. The pop sound can be heard at the beginning of each song but mostly it is random.

• N3 firmware is 2.1
• USB TypeC to USB TypeC cable from Anker (Cayin cable it is not working properly meaning Win 10 doesn't recognize the N3)
• Windows 10 Home x64 1703
• PC hardware information: Asus ROG GL502VT gaming laptop (i7-6700HQ, Intel® HM170 Chipset, 8 GB DDR4 2133MHz, 128GB SATA3 SSD + 1TB 7200RPM SATA HDD, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970M 3GB GDDR5 VRAM)
• Headphones: Audio-Technica WS1100iS Solid Bass

Sorry being noob here , how do we set up as DAC mode ? By using USB connection to the computer the player is then set as dac, then we connect the head phone using Bluetooth or 3.5mm to the player and choose music from the computer to play ?

 

[BogdanUK]

Sorry being noob here , how do we set up as DAC mode ? By using USB connection to the computer the player is then set as dac, then we connect the head phone using Bluetooth or 3.5mm to the player and choose music from the computer to play ?

First, you set the player on DAC mode, install the Cayin driver on the computer (http://en.cayin.cn/download/show?id=13481), connect N3 to the computer (I recommend another cable than the original), play music from your computer using any media player software. I personally use the Foobar2000 with some good additional components like Real Bass Exciter v1.0.12.
You can increase the volume from both the N3 and the computer, or just set the N3 to the max and play with the computer volume.
It is also important to set the Digital Filter on your N3:
- Super Slow is best for classical, bluegrass, rock, acoustic (physical instruments)
- sharp or short delay sharp is best for pop, electronica, dance
- ignore the other filters left besides the ones above and just play with these settings and see how you like it. I have learned these from this forum so I am sharing this knowledge further on.
There is more to talk about N3 settings but if you manage to handle these ones first you should be fine for now. Enjoy !!!

 

[spoonspoon]

First, you set the player on DAC mode, install the Cayin driver on the computer (http://en.cayin.cn/download/show?id=13481), connect N3 to the computer (I recommend another cable than the original), play music from your computer using any media player software. I personally use the Foobar2000 with some good additional components like Real Bass Exciter v1.0.12.
You can increase the volume from both the N3 and the computer, or just set the N3 to the max and play with the computer volume.
It is also important to set the Digital Filter on your N3:
- Super Slow is best for classical, bluegrass, rock, acoustic (physical instruments)
- sharp or short delay sharp is best for pop, electronica, dance
- ignore the other filters left besides the ones above and just play with these settings and see how you like it. I have learned these from this forum so I am sharing this knowledge further on.
There is more to talk about N3 settings but if you manage to handle these ones first you should be fine for now. Enjoy !!!

Thanks !!!! So the sound is coming from the computer but not from the headphone or earpiece plug to the N3?

 

[Brooko]

[Mod Comment]

Got called here because things were becoming heated. Have removed some posts.

Please note:

1. It is never OK to insult someone, or imply they are stupid because you are not experiencing what they are.
2. It is not OK on this forum to personally insult anyone period.
3. Off-topic posts about IT related situations are not helping
4. If someone is getting out of line, don't respond to their posts - please flag them instead.

From what I have seen, several people have an issue which does not appear to be tied to a single solution so far - which is why Andy asked for more information. If the issue affects you - please contribute. If it doesn't, then maybe have a bit of respect for those who are experiencing it, and stop insinuating it is user error. We don't know this yet - which is why Andy is asking for more info.

Andy - suggestion. perhaps (to avoid clogging this thread) start a separate N3 issues thread if you don't want to sidetrack this one. Your call. Then you can specialise help to those that need it.