[Andykong]

It has this which is what I was reffering to.

Because we don't consider this a search function.

This is a Quick Access menu, it is a pre-indexed pointers created when you scan your Music, and only available under the Music Category section. We can't do this on the Folder view as someone has asked earlier on.

 

[Andykong]

I use an exfat card for my music, but have always used a separate fat32 card for fw updates. Glad to know exfat is working for fw updates too.

Firmware update will fall back to the native operation of the MCU. If the MCU supports exFAT, then we can use exFAT card to perform firmware update. The Ingenic XBurst x1000 used in N3 belongs to this category.

On the other hand, if the MCU does not support exFAT, and the DAP is relied on firmware code to support exFAT, the DAP will not be able to use exFAT card to perform firmwar udpate. The Ingenic XBurst JZ4760B used in our N5 and N6 DAP belongs to this category.

 

[mbwilson111]

Because we don't consider this a search function.

This is a Quick Access menu, it is a pre-indexed pointers created when you scan your Music, and only available under the Music Category section. We can't do this on the Folder view as someone has asked earlier on.

Just tried in artist view...very helpful! Thank you!

 

[Andykong]

Yes I guess you're right that there's nothing wrong with choosing one OS and sticking with it. However, viruses are less prevalent on OS X simply due to its insignificant market share rather than any magic about the OS itself so it's not something that people should take for granted. As for crapware, none of the versions of Windows I've installed have come with any crapware so I'm not sure what you mean.

Out of interest, If there are no third party drivers for OS X, how do third party devices like the Cayin N3 (phew - last minute on-topic save there!) communicate?

Standard protocol.

The heart of the problem is USB Audio Class support. MS Windows system only support USB Audio Class 1.0, which is good for 24Bit/96kHz and below. If we need to go beyond that, we need to go for USB Audi Class 2.0. To do that in Window based system, we need to install a device driver.

On the other hand, Linux and OS X supports USB Audio Class 2.0, so N3 can communicate with this facilities without needing a device driver.

http://www.gadgetguy.com.au/confirmed-windows-10-now-supports-usb-audio-class-2-0/

People who like high resolution music, and like to use a computer to deliver it, have been irritated for years by the failure of Windows to support this little thing called … well, let’s call it USB Audio Class 2.0*. This standard was released way back in 2006 and adopted by Apple on the Mac within a couple of years, but has only now made its way into Windows with the “Creator’s Update” – version 1703 – which began rolling out last month. (April 2017??)

 

[gLer]

Out of interest, If there are no third party drivers for OS X, how do third party devices like the Cayin N3 (phew - last min(ute on-topic save there!) communicate?

Apologies, what I meant was that any third-party drivers need to be verified by Apple, and most devices have their drivers built in to the OS (or downloaded automatically from Apple as required). That's why, for example, when you connect the N3 to a Mac, it recognizes it as a DAC immediately - no drivers necessary.

 

[Andykong]

how did you get that little alphabet thing at the bottom? thanks

You can bring out the Quick Assess menu by press the Menu button (upper left on front panel) in the Artist or Album list under Music Category menu.

 

[Andykong]

Having auditioned both recently I would give the nod in sound quality to the N3 comfortably over the X1-II.

Yes you are correct the Sony A35 is 35 mW per channel. But the amplifiers in each unit are different designs. The A35 has a proprietary Sony designed Class D digital amp and the design is quite a bit more efficient than the typical A/B class amp found in most DAP's. So while 130 mW vs 35 mW sounds like alot the difference is not as great as the numbers would indicate. The efficiency of the Sony amp design contributes alot to Sony's significantly longer battery life. I would say it really comes down to the iem's or headphones used as to whether the extra power of the N3 is needed. As for the sound quality I agree that the A35 is smoother sounding but still with lots of detail. I found the smoother sound of the A35 is more forgiving for my older 60's, poorer mastered and lower bitrate tracks.

Given that the A35 drove my B&W P5S2 headphones to more than adequate volume levels I am leaning toward the A45 when it comes out. I think I would find it hard to go from my 30 hours of battery life from my A17 to the 12 hours of the N3. I also give the edge in usability and build quality to the A35 as well. Don't get me wrong if I had the money I would probably buy both as the N3 would sound better with some of my music. But I found the Sony sounded better for a wider range of my genre's than the N3.

The A35 is a gem and I am looking forward to check out the A45 personally. Hey, nothing wrong to admire a good product even they are coming from a competing brand.

I have mentioned previously that not all power rating are identical and comparable, so please don't compare the power rating figure as-is. They are not as meaningful as you expected if you don't know the exact condition of the measurements, for example, are they loaded measurements? What is the loading condition? What is the THD at the stated maximum output? .... just to name a few issues.

On the other hand, power rating (in mW or W per channel) is not the only determining factors in terms of driving and handling of IEM. The other factor is current capacity of the amplifier. Unfortunately this is not something that you can find out from a specification table.

As you have stated, Sony DAPs are based on Class D Digital Amp., and Class D amp tends to have a higher maximum current capacity when compare to a Class A/B amp of the same rating (assuming under the same measurement condition). However, does the 35mA Class D amp in A35 equivalent to 130mW Class A/B amp in N3? I simply can't tell until we test them with a difficult load. In my experience a steady 35mW@32ohm is sufficient for most BA IEMs, but trying to pair it with a low sensitivity Dynamic IEM can be a different story. In other word, if your main interest is BA iems, which covers a large proportion of the market choice, I don't think you need to worry about driving power of the Sony A35, it should work just fine.

 

[dissembled]

Can one disable the digital filters on the dap or does it sound better with a filter enabled? If you can't disable it for some reason, I'll probably go with Short Decay, since from what I read, that would be the medium between the extremes.

 

[eaglesgift]

Can one disable the digital filters on the dap or does it sound better with a filter enabled? If you can't disable it for some reason, I'll probably go with Short Decay, since from what I read, that would be the medium between the extremes.

I think if you select Short Delay Sharp, that is kind of equivalent to having no filter as it's the default option for the DAC. See post here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...oax-out-for-150.833932/page-242#post-13671345

 

[MajesticSquirrel]

If you pick on the wording of non-native-language contributors, I'll give it a try to clarify the satement: Cayin has determined the sound signature of the DAP during the product development stage, we treat the firmware as the mean to deliver the function of the DAP, not a sound turning tool. We has tried our best NOT to alter the sound of the DAP during the firmware development process but the following types of changes will inevitably alter the sound of the DAP to certain extend:

(1) Optimization that involve changes in algorithm
(2) Optimization that involve power management

I can't speak for nmatheis, he is a regular member here, maybe you can direct your question to him directly, but it is obvious that N3 had involve numerous type (1) and (2) changes before we finalized our production version firmware, but isn't that a nature process in product development?

I didn't pick on wording, just needed more context. I'm not a native english speaker too. Your answer has everything and maybe more than I needed, thanks for great price/quality product and keep up the good work.

Can one disable the digital filters on the dap or does it sound better with a filter enabled? If you can't disable it for some reason, I'll probably go with Short Decay, since from what I read, that would be the medium between the extremes.

I think if you select Short Delay Sharp, that is kind of equivalent to having no filter as it's the default option for the DAC. See post here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...oax-out-for-150.833932/page-242#post-13671345

"Slow" is the most flat out of all (in my opinion and according to docholliday's information: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...oax-out-for-150.833932/page-242#post-13671284). To test, you can play pure synthetic sound piece with slower filters. You should not like the sound as much as you would like with sharper filters. "Slow" should sound OK, but maybe not better than sharper ones. Then play pure real sound (real instruments and/or vocals) with sharper filters. You should not like the sound as much as you would like with slower filters. "Slow" should sound OK, but maybe not better than slower ones. Since "Slow" is OK for both, that's why I use it as universal filter.

 

[fish1050]

DAPs FiiO are releasing don't impress me. Balanced outs do nothing for me. The X5III is still buggy and seems like a new bug is found daily with it. The X3III looks like it'll have the same problems as the X1II from my reading in that thread. X7II I am not following, but they never really got the original X7 running right so I wouldn't expect much from the new one, but maybe I'm wrong. This is the N3 thread so the focus should be on that and I enjoy it over the FiiO's I own because it works like it's suppose to.

I wish Fiio's recent DAP's were better as they are widely available in Canada.

DAPs FiiO are releasing don't impress me. Balanced outs do nothing for me. The X5III is still buggy and seems like a new bug is found daily with it. The X3III looks like it'll have the same problems as the X1II from my reading in that thread. X7II I am not following, but they never really got the original X7 running right so I wouldn't expect much from the new one, but maybe I'm wrong. This is the N3 thread so the focus should be on that and I enjoy it over the FiiO's I own because it works like it's suppose to.

I have been holding out hope for a few years now that Fiio would produce a DAP worth buying that fits my needs. Needless to say I am still waiting and I don't want to wait any longer. I think Fiio is trying to produce DAP's that exceed their technical capabilities and always seem to fall short.. Shanling and Cayin have been producing quality home audio gear for years before getting into the DAP market. I think their previous technical expertise has allowed them to produce stable and relatively bug free DAP's compared to Fiio. I do like the N3 but at this point I just feel the A45 is a better fit for me. I have a Sony LDAC capable home receiver and streaming audio sounds really good with LDAC. The battery life, build quality and UI are better to me on the A35 and thus the A45 than the N3.

But I will keep an eye on Cayin's future product releases and maybe when I am ready to upgrade again it will be with Cayin. I am hoping Cayin expands their portable Amp and DAC/Amp offerings. I demoed the C5 but was not impressed with the look and build quality.

 

[fourrobert13]

I wish Fiio's recent DAP's were better as they are widely available in Canada.


I have been holding out hope for a few years now that Fiio would produce a DAP worth buying that fits my needs. Needless to say I am still waiting and I don't want to wait any longer. I think Fiio is trying to produce DAP's that exceed their technical capabilities and always seem to fall short.. Shanling and Cayin have been producing quality home audio gear for years before getting into the DAP market. I think their previous technical expertise has allowed them to produce stable and relatively bug free DAP's compared to Fiio. I do like the N3 but at this point I just feel the A45 is a better fit for me. I have a Sony LDAC capable home receiver and streaming audio sounds really good with LDAC. The battery life, build quality and UI are better to me on the A35 and thus the A45 than the N3.

But I will keep an eye on Cayin's future product releases and maybe when I am ready to upgrade again it will be with Cayin. I am hoping Cayin expands their portable Amp and DAC/Amp offerings. I demoed the C5 but was not impressed with the look and build quality.

I'll use the new X3III as an example of why it's not an upgrade compared to the N3. That new X3 has balance out and a touch wheel. Other than that, it's an X3II. It offers no digital out like the N3, has no OTG capabilities and can't be used as a transport unless using coax or LO to an amp/DAC. N3 has APTX Bluetooth and can be controlled using Hibylink. The X3III has Blluetooth, but no APTX or Hibylink. You and I both own the X1II and while the X1II is better than it was at release, it is still full of problems. The X3III shares the same hardware and software and users are already reporting the usual FiiO DAP release issues of no gapless, replay gain, laggy UI...blah blah blah. The new X3III also cost $50 more than the N3, yet they are really offering less feature wise. I regret buying that X1II and I intend to list it on ebay this weekend because FiiO has offered no support for it in the last 6 months and they know it still has problems. Once a charging issue was brought up about the N3, Cayin issued a fw update almost immediately to correct the problem and Cayin seems to be more active and responsive to users on this forum. FiiO seems overwhelmed and believes in using their customers as beta testers and by they time they get it right, they release something new and start it all over again. I'm tired of that method. The N3 worked as advertised right out of the box and that's all I want from a DAP along with good sound which the N3 has. I've washed my hands of FiiO and have no intentions of buying another one of their DAPs. Even prior to buying my X5II over a year ago, I looked really hard at the N5, but was still kind of new to this game so I stuck with FiiO because I already had an X1 and X3II, but now that I finally broke that cycle and I'm really glad I did. I don't need android or any of that stuff so the N3 is perfect for me and I'll probably get another one once I sell the X1II. That's how much I like this little DAP.

 

[fish1050]

The A35 is a gem and I am looking forward to check out the A45 personally. Hey, nothing wrong to admire a good product even they are coming from a competing brand.

I have mentioned previously that not all power rating are identical and comparable, so please don't compare the power rating figure as-is. They are not as meaningful as you expected if you don't know the exact condition of the measurements, for example, are they loaded measurements? What is the loading condition? What is the THD at the stated maximum output? .... just to name a few issues.

On the other hand, power rating (in mW or W per channel) is not the only determining factors in terms of driving and handling of IEM. The other factor is current capacity of the amplifier. Unfortunately this is not something that you can find out from a specification table.

As you have stated, Sony DAPs are based on Class D Digital Amp., and Class D amp tends to have a higher maximum current capacity when compare to a Class A/B amp of the same rating (assuming under the same measurement condition). However, does the 35mA Class D amp in A35 equivalent to 130mW Class A/B amp in N3? I simply can't tell until we test them with a difficult load. In my experience a steady 35mW@32ohm is sufficient for most BA IEMs, but trying to pair it with a low sensitivity Dynamic IEM can be a different story. In other word, if your main interest is BA iems, which covers a large proportion of the market choice, I don't think you need to worry about driving power of the Sony A35, it should work just fine.

Andy I am really glad you brought up the current capacity of the amplifier. When I was selling audio gear every customer was under the impression that more power a receiver or amplifier had the better it was. It was a real challenge to get them to understand that current is what drives the speakers or drivers in the headphones. I miss the days when audio gear manufacturers made the current specs available in their spec sheets. Since you brought it up is there any chance Cayin will start providing the current specifications for your portable audio products?

I tried the A35 with several headphones as I don't use iem's and found the power is fine for most headphones 35 ohms or less. Once you switch to 60 ohm and above headphones I found the power of the N3 was necessary.

I am truly torn as I really like the N3 and I would definitely buy one if the Sony A35/A45 were not also available and a better fit for my needs. I like the DAP's Cayin is producing and quite frankly I think Cayin is now producing the kind of DAP's I have been waiting years for Fiio to produce. I will continue to follow your product releases.

I am also looking for a new portable amplifier and I did demo the C5 but I was not thrilled with it. I found the look and build quality lacking a little. Does Cayin have any plans to expand their portable Amp and DAC/Amp offerings?

 

[fish1050]

I'll use the new X3III as an example of why it's not an upgrade compared to the N3. That new X3 has balance out and a touch wheel. Other than that, it's an X3II. It offers no digital out like the N3, has no OTG capabilities and can't be used as a transport unless using coax or LO to an amp/DAC. N3 has APTX Bluetooth and can be controlled using Hibylink. The X3III has Blluetooth, but no APTX or Hibylink. You and I both own the X1II and while the X1II is better than it was at release, it is still full of problems. The X3III shares the same hardware and software and users are already reporting the usual FiiO DAP release issues of no gapless, replay gain, laggy UI...blah blah blah. The new X3III also cost $50 more than the N3, yet they are really offering less feature wise. I regret buying that X1II and I intend to list it on ebay this weekend because FiiO has offered no support for it in the last 6 months and they know it still has problems. Once a charging issue was brought up about the N3, Cayin issued a fw update almost immediately to correct the problem and Cayin seems to be more active and responsive to users on this forum. FiiO seems overwhelmed and believes in using their customers as beta testers and by they time they get it right, they release something new and start it all over again. I'm tired of that method. The N3 worked as advertised right out of the box and that's all I want from a DAP along with good sound which the N3 has. I've washed my hands of FiiO and have no intentions of buying another one of their DAPs. Even prior to buying my X5II over a year ago, I looked really hard at the N5, but was still kind of new to this game so I stuck with FiiO because I already had an X1 and X3II, but now that I finally broke that cycle and I'm really glad I did. I don't need android or any of that stuff so the N3 is perfect for me and I'll probably get another one once I sell the X1II. That's how much I like this little DAP.

I agree with everything you are saying, it is like you are reading my mind

The X5-II when it was released gave me hope for Fiio's future DAP's. Every Fiio DAP to follow has been a disappointment because it was buggy or lacked certain features. I have only bought their Amps and DAC/Amps and now their recently released Amps and DAC/Amps don't fit my needs either.

 

[eaglesgift]

I'll use the new X3III as an example of why it's not an upgrade compared to the N3. That new X3 has balance out and a touch wheel. Other than that, it's an X3II. It offers no digital out like the N3, has no OTG capabilities and can't be used as a transport unless using coax or LO to an amp/DAC. N3 has APTX Bluetooth and can be controlled using Hibylink. The X3III has Blluetooth, but no APTX or Hibylink. You and I both own the X1II and while the X1II is better than it was at release, it is still full of problems. The X3III shares the same hardware and software and users are already reporting the usual FiiO DAP release issues of no gapless, replay gain, laggy UI...blah blah blah. The new X3III also cost $50 more than the N3, yet they are really offering less feature wise. I regret buying that X1II and I intend to list it on ebay this weekend because FiiO has offered no support for it in the last 6 months and they know it still has problems. Once a charging issue was brought up about the N3, Cayin issued a fw update almost immediately to correct the problem and Cayin seems to be more active and responsive to users on this forum. FiiO seems overwhelmed and believes in using their customers as beta testers and by they time they get it right, they release something new and start it all over again. I'm tired of that method. The N3 worked as advertised right out of the box and that's all I want from a DAP along with good sound which the N3 has. I've washed my hands of FiiO and have no intentions of buying another one of their DAPs. Even prior to buying my X5II over a year ago, I looked really hard at the N5, but was still kind of new to this game so I stuck with FiiO because I already had an X1 and X3II, but now that I finally broke that cycle and I'm really glad I did. I don't need android or any of that stuff so the N3 is perfect for me and I'll probably get another one once I sell the X1II. That's how much I like this little DAP.

I'm not going to buy another N3 because I can't think of a good reason to have 2 but I've been sorely tempted to buy the red one all the same. I really like the look of that one.

I'm hoping Cayin release something else I can buy soon. In red.