[bratella]

I  worried about this, then they said, that planned to use AD712 instead LME49720.
AD712  itself has quite high level of  own noise ( compare with modern audio OPAMP). That in some cases  may cause degradation of sound.

 

[Andykong]

I've monitored  first   audition impressions of independent users  on Chinese erji forum.
I found only 4, relating to sonic qualities.

1 User ljwllll: "The sound much more better then had engeneering sample."
2 User Buy or not X7: "Background noise persists, with 846, 3003   heard  obviously."
3 User 摆直一头龟: "Generally compare sound with QLC, especially modded, QLC feels better"
4 User Okcomputer: "Speaking about i5 sound- this is  very familiar voice, i5 and my 6420 notebook sound very, very similar to my hearing, their similarity over 90%"

I  worried about this, then they said, that planned to use AD712 instead LME49720.
AD712  itself has quite high level of  own noise ( compare with modern audio OPAMP). That in some cases  may cause degradation of sound.

We understand your have doubt regarding the AD712 since your first post, a number of members has voiced different opinions but appearance there is no way we can shake what you BELIEVE. I'll interested to discuss the issue of AD712 vs LME49720 if we are in a DIY forum, but when we are discussing about commercial DAP products, I do not want to exaggerate the implication of a single component. If i have to pick a component to make noise with, I probably will pick the DAC chipset which is far more significant then the LPF. The fact is not all ESS9018 DAC sounds the same, and an AK4490 based DAP can be more analytical that ES9018 based DAP, the important issue is the overall implementation, the compensation considerations, where you used it, how you used it, and the synergy in the circuit design. The specification of a single component is not the determining factor IMHO, I believe the final product is all that matters eventually.

I seldom share my own impression after I joined Cayin, used to do that before I become member of Trade. For the record, I'll state my own observation but I have to remind everyone I have personal interest with the gears involved. I have compared the production version i5 vs my display sample from Munich Show briefly, only briefly but fortunately that is side by side A-B-A comparison with the same songs and same IEM. I can hear the different, but they are not significant, and definitely not a downgrade in audio performance. I do not hear any hissing/background noise with my IEM during the comparison, I used Unique Melody Martian 2+2 (28ohm, 110dB). In fact I didn't hear any background noise even with the previous version of i5 during regular playback, the background noise problem was related to WiFi function only, the new version has significantly rectified the WiFi problem. If you look for it with some special technique, you can still hear the WiFi interference, but most user feedback confirmed that they don't have any problem using i5 for online music playback now.

Regarding the four single line translation from erji forum, I want to remind readers that the audio discussion forum has a very different culture and ecosystem from HeadFi, taking one line out of an article is very dangerous, let alone ignoring the on-going discussion before and after the post. This can easily result in taking a quote out of context completely.

I happened to read all these discussion previously, I'll try to describe the "context" of (2) and (4) so that reader can visualize the statements better.

2 User Buy or not X7: "Background noise persists, with 846, 3003 heard obviously."

Original link: http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1919125&page=2#pid29305496
User " Buy or not X7" has make 8 posts in this thread. In short, he is in the middle of dispute against Cayin in the discussion. He challenged the power on and power off timing of i5 as well as the attitude of Cayin Support service. when Cayin posted a video to record the time required to turn on and off the DAP, he don't accept that and accused Cayin as possibly making up false evident to "beautify" their products and cannot be trusted. The statements quoted here in the fourth posts he wrote in the thread. Regarding the background noise issue, he didn't described the testing condition. It is uncertain whether that is background noise from regular playback or interference of WiFi. There in no information regarding the gain and volume setting when these highly sensitive IEMs were used, or whether he heard the noise in the middle of music playback, or during the gap between songs, or literally pause the playback and then turn up the volume to expose background noise at abnormal condition (you'll be surprised that similar outrageous practice to examine background noise is not uncommon in erji forum)

4 User Okcomputer: "Speaking about i5 sound- this is very familiar voice, i5 and my 6420 notebook sound very, very similar to my hearing, their similarity over 90%"

Original link: http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1928589&highlight=
While that is the true meaning of what Okcomputer has said in his impression of Cayin i5, one must be aware that this user truly believed and boldly claimed that Chinese DAP are inferior to notebook computer (国砖干不过笔记本电脑). In his previous HOT discussion (over 150 posts) on this notebook computer topic, he stated that he has compared HiFiman hm650, Soundaware m1pro, QLS qa360mod, HiFiman supermini, L&P L5Pro, Hifiman 802S, Fiio X7+AM2, none of them is as good as the headphone out of his Dell 6420 notebook computer, and he only used AKG Y15 and Y16 for all his audition/comparison.

He has also stated that he has compared Fiio X7 and Cayin N5, while the X7 exhibits higher quality in every ways, he prefers Cayin N5 as he can feel the passion and emotion of music better with N5. Because of this positive experience with N5, he go for the Cayin i5 and he described i5 as "relieve his concern on audio of Android system, based on the audio performance (of i5) and the user-friendly Android, expandability and continuous development of hardware and software, he is convinced that Android DAP will rule in Chinese DAP market". So in his opinion, when he said Cayin i5 is 90% of his Dell 6420, he consider i5 that as a rave and Cayin i5 is a very good DAP.

I hope the additional information will help readers to understand bratella's quotations.

 

[Rozenberg]

I was going to say that the final implementation matters the most but it seems so obvious that I became too lazy to actually post it.@Andykong has explained it better anyway.
 
To be honest I don't give a damn what DAC chip, what opamp or dual chip or not, as long it's a great product with reasonable price.
The only things I care in the spec sheets are mainly output impedance and power output because my CIEM has low impedance.
 
Also thanks for the additional info Andy, although I can't read Chinese but at least you provided source for other people who can read it.
 
 
By the way, power on power off timing as in boot time? It was pretty slow though, speaking from my experience in Munich and I've addressed it there too. But it was engineering sample, don't know about the current version. I just can't wait to receive my unit and test how long the batt can survive on standby. If it's capable to run weeks on standby like iPod, it's a win!

 

[Rozenberg]

This is such a sad picture

 

[Andykong]

This is such a sad picture

Picture quality is not a problem, I hope you are happy the player is in good shape and you are happy with what you get after all.

Any immediate impression? Better then what you have heard at Munich?

 

[Rozenberg]

Picture quality is not a problem, I hope you are happy the player is in good shape and you are happy with what you get after all.

Any immediate impression? Better then what you have heard at Munich?

That is why it's sad Andy.
It's there but not within my reach, not even 100km reach
Gotta wait til mid July
 
Or I can ask my dad to open it and give impressions?

 

[Andykong]

Since we have the first i5 open-box all the way from Mainland China today, I’ll briefly compare the domestic and International version of firmware for the benefit of HeadFi readers:

(1) Domestic version will have on-line music service pre-installed. You can access to 500,000 lossless titles during the free VIP period (3 months) and have unlimited access to the 320K MP3 titles. These are licensed music content but the license is good for Mainland China only (i.e., not even applicable to Hong Kong users), so please don’t bother to log into the Members service, it won’t work once you are out of Mainland China.

(2) Because Google service is NOT applicable to Mainland China, Google Play plus other Google service will only be available in International version. If you want to try out third party application, you have to download the application package (apk file in most cases) to the i5 storage and install them with the ES Explorer pre-installed.

(3) I5 support cloud music server service. International version will have Dropbox gateway pre-installed, and China domestic version will have Baidu Cloud pre-installed. You cannot access Baidu Cloud effectively once you are out of China, so you have given up the cloud service when you use parallel-imported i5.

(4) i5 support OTA firmware upgrade, but the upgrade service will check your IMEI and determine the “appropriate” version of firmware that fit your player. In other word, the parallel imported unit will always OTA the domestic version firmware, international version firmware can only be installed manually.

For those who are interested in buying their i5 from “oversee”, please make sure you are aware of the different before you commit to any deal.

I probably will be able to provide more detail about the launch schedule in international market within 2 weeks, so please stay tune for that.

One last update, we have receive a sample of Type C USB to RCA coaxial cable from our OEM suppliers today, unfortunately we have to reject the cable and ask for a rebuild to meet our standard, but I think you guys will be interested to take a look at the rejected sample, so here it is (taken by my mobile phone, so please pardon the quality) :

 

[audio123]

Should I get i5 given I have N5? Is I5 the touch screen version of N5

 

[Andykong]

Should I get i5 given I have N5? Is I5 the touch screen version of N5

It really depends on what you want and what you need.

Let's start with the following three questions:

UI: do you prefer physical button or you want a mobile-phone type handling?

Functionality: Do you want to listen to your own music stored on TF card, or you listen to music from online sources (Tidal, Spotify, Dropbox, DLNA to computers/NAS, ...)?

Do you have 2.5mm balanced IEM/headphones in your collection? or plan to use 2.5mm balanced IEM/headphone in near future?

Regarding the sound signature, they are on the same level and the different is subtle. i5 is pleasant and laid back, easy listening type, some will like it and call it musical, but some might prefer N5 and consider i5 as too soft or too mellow. N5 has stronger audiophile quality, the midrange is a bit prominent (when compare to i5) and the bass is relatively full.

I hope this will offer some direction for you to approach the very difficult selection.

 

[audio123]

It really depends on what you want and what you need.

Let's start with the following three questions:

UI: do you prefer physical button or you want a mobile-phone type handling?

Functionality: Do you want to listen to your own music stored on TF card, or you listen to music from online sources (Tidal, Spotify, Dropbox, DLNA to computers/NAS, ...)?

Do you have 2.5mm balanced IEM/headphones in your collection? or plan to use 2.5mm balanced IEM/headphone in near future?

Regarding the sound signature, they are on the same level and the different is subtle. i5 is pleasant and laid back, easy listening type, some will like it and call it musical, but some might prefer N5 and consider i5 as too soft or too mellow. N5 has stronger audiophile quality, the midrange is a bit prominent (when compare to i5) and the bass is relatively full.

I hope this will offer some direction for you to approach the very difficult selection.

this just deters me from getting. thanks a lot mate

 

[Rozenberg]

One last update, we have receive a sample of Type C USB to RCA coaxial cable from our OEM suppliers today, unfortunately we have to reject the cable and ask for a rebuild to meet our standard, but I think you guys will be interested to take a look at the rejected sample, so here it is (taken by my mobile phone, so please pardon the quality) :

 
Looks sturdy but at the same time, looks too generic.
If 2 m length is available, I can use that. And I don't mind paying like more for better cable btw

 

 

[flognarde]

Can the Qobuz music streamer app be insatlled on the I5 ? what about Hi-res streaming (it fails on the Fiio X7) ?

 

[kaneman]

Since we have the first i5 open-box all the way from Mainland China today, I’ll briefly compare the domestic and International version of firmware for the benefit of HeadFi readers:

(1) Domestic version will have on-line music service pre-installed. You can access to 500,000 lossless titles during the free VIP period (3 months) and have unlimited access to the 320K MP3 titles. These are licensed music content but the license is good for Mainland China only (i.e., not even applicable to Hong Kong users), so please don’t bother to log into the Members service, it won’t work once you are out of Mainland China.

(2) Because Google service is NOT applicable to Mainland China, Google Play plus other Google service will only be available in International version. If you want to try out third party application, you have to download the application package (apk file in most cases) to the i5 storage and install them with the ES Explorer pre-installed.

(3) I5 support cloud music server service. International version will have Dropbox gateway pre-installed, and China domestic version will have Baidu Cloud pre-installed. You cannot access Baidu Cloud effectively once you are out of China, so you have given up the cloud service when you use parallel-imported i5.

(4) i5 support OTA firmware upgrade, but the upgrade service will check your IMEI and determine the “appropriate” version of firmware that fit your player. In other word, the parallel imported unit will always OTA the domestic version firmware, international version firmware can only be installed manually.

For those who are interested in buying their i5 from “oversee”, please make sure you are aware of the different before you commit to any deal.

I probably will be able to provide more detail about the launch schedule in international market within 2 weeks, so please stay tune for that.

One last update, we have receive a sample of Type C USB to RCA coaxial cable from our OEM suppliers today, unfortunately we have to reject the cable and ask for a rebuild to meet our standard, but I think you guys will be interested to take a look at the rejected sample, so here it is (taken by my mobile phone, so please pardon the quality) :

 

 
Where and when will international firmware versions be available? Just got back and getting started with the i5 but would prefer the international firmware.

 

[kaneman]

Until I have more break-in and listening time I don't want to go into detail on sound. My initial impressions are very good. It's far beyond the Plenue D (as would be expected), has more than enough power to drive the Fostex TH-X00 to concert-level volumes with no compression or distortion, and scales extremely well with source material (E.G. from AAC to 44/16 FLAC to high-bit 96/24 etc). Not quite up to the resolution of the Questyle at initial impressions.
 
But that's not the entire story. This will likely end up being my favorite DAP. It's the best interface I've ever used on a DAP hands down. It's easy, it's dead reliable, and it plays everything I've thrown at it including SACD ISOs without even a hiccup. It can sort music almost any way you like (I'd like to see it able to sort by format as well, yes I'm weird), has a unique jog 'dial' that lets you reach any point in a song almost instantaneously and very easily, happily loads apps via the Google Play store, and above all responds smoothly, rapidly and without hiccups. It just plain works and works extremely well. Unlike many DAPs I've used, it has no control or operational quirks I've found yet. 

 

[jeronim0]

Hi Andy, I ordered the i5 on Penon Audio two days ago and shall receive it tomorrow, I need to clear some doubts :
 
1. further to my understanding, I shall be getting the China Mainland version?
2. Can you please confirm if the installation tutorial of the upcoming international rom will be easy for a total noob?
 
I got some devices bricked when trying to flash custom roms and I just don't wanna spend hundreds to send it back to Hong Kong in case that something went wrong.
 
3. I saw reviews on youtube saying that the N5's sound quality is less detailed than the Fiio X5II, considering your comment that the i5 has less details than the N5. Does that mean the $469 i5 is worst than the average daps in the $300 zone? 
 
4. By mentioning ''Musical'' for the i5, you meant on the warm side, fun but still has the same amount of details compared to the N5?
 
5. I saw 190mw per side for 32 ohms, what is the compatibility with hard to drive cans such as Sennheiser HD800 or earbuds such as VE Zen 2.0 and Dark Horse 400?