[Cagin]

Any chance of auditioning the i5 at Canjam London?

 

[audio123]

Any chance of auditioning the i5 at Canjam London?

impressions please. tyvm 

 

[Andykong]

Can the Qobuz music streamer app be insatlled on the I5 ? what about Hi-res streaming (it fails on the Fiio X7) ?

Haven't tried this one, there are quite a number of streaming related app around and we didn't get to check out all of them, I suppose by the time we had a HeadFI tour, we'll have a better coverage on third party application testing.

I assume you are referring to streaming of 24/96 or above? What are the service providers that I should look up for if I want to try out Hi-Res streaming? I am not familiar with streaming service and your suggestion would be most helpful.

We haven't test 24/96 streaming so far but we are not optimistic. We have tested 24/96 from NAS of local network and DropBox, demonstrated minor hiccup in both case. 16/44.1 is acceptable and the result is highly depended on the WiFi condition (and how far is i5 away form the WiFi router). From what we tested, if we placed i5 within 1m of a WiFi Router, the actual WiFI download speed of i5 is around 30Mpbs which is not bad. Unfortunate when we move to 5m away from the Router, the download speed dropped to 10Mbps, the bandwidth is still technically capable for 24/96 but our experience is real life need a lot more headroom if we want to maintain a decent audio quality for hour long listening.

 

[Andykong]

Looks sturdy but at the same time, looks too generic.
If 2 m length is available, I can use that. And I don't mind paying like more for better cable btw  

This is the kind of cable that we used if it is a bundled accessories, but since the cable is a paid option, so I ask for something better to start with, but the standard length is 1m or 1.5m (TBC), unlikely we'll make a 2m coaxial cable as stocked accessories.

 

[Andykong]

Where and when will international firmware versions be available? Just got back and getting started with the i5 but would prefer the international firmware.

We have finalized the international firmware version last weekend, because we are preparing our first shipment to Hong Kong, this will be the first i5 launch outside Mainland China.

Unfortunately because of the latest agreement, we cannot release the international version firmware on our website immediately because the Hong Kong distributor advised against that, they do worry that consumer will buy Mainland China stock and flash the International version firmware instead of buying the Hong Kong items.

Very likely we'll only upload the international version firmware when we release a new firmware, will keep you informed when I have more detail.

 

[flognarde]

Haven't tried this one, there are quite a number of streaming related app around and we didn't get to check out all of them, I suppose by the time we had a HeadFI tour, we'll have a better coverage on third party application testing.

I assume you are referring to streaming of 24/96 or above? What are the service providers that I should look up for if I want to try out Hi-Res streaming? I am not familiar with streaming service and your suggestion would be most helpful.

We haven't test 24/96 streaming so far but we are not optimistic. We have tested 24/96 from NAS of local network and DropBox, demonstrated minor hiccup in both case. 16/44.1 is acceptable and the result is highly depended on the WiFi condition (and how far is i5 away form the WiFi router). From what we tested, if we placed i5 within 1m of a WiFi Router, the actual WiFI download speed of i5 is around 30Mpbs which is not bad. Unfortunate when we move to 5m away from the Router, the download speed dropped to 10Mbps, the bandwidth is still technically capable for 24/96 but our experience is real life need a lot more headroom if we want to maintain a decent audio quality for hour long listening.

 

[flognarde]

The provider is the one I was talking about... QOBUZ... I guess you are right, it's all about WiFi speed... Looking forward for more testing
By the way I strongly advise headfiers to give Qobuz a shot, especially if you are into cd quality streaming

 

[Andykong]

Until I have more break-in and listening time I don't want to go into detail on sound. My initial impressions are very good. It's far beyond the Plenue D (as would be expected), has more than enough power to drive the Fostex TH-X00 to concert-level volumes with no compression or distortion, and scales extremely well with source material (E.G. from AAC to 44/16 FLAC to high-bit 96/24 etc). Not quite up to the resolution of the Questyle at initial impressions.

But that's not the entire story. This will likely end up being my favorite DAP. It's the best interface I've ever used on a DAP hands down. It's easy, it's dead reliable, and it plays everything I've thrown at it including SACD ISOs without even a hiccup. It can sort music almost any way you like (I'd like to see it able to sort by format as well, yes I'm weird), has a unique jog 'dial' that lets you reach any point in a song almost instantaneously and very easily, happily loads apps via the Google Play store, and above all responds smoothly, rapidly and without hiccups. It just plain works and works extremely well. Unlike many DAPs I've used, it has no control or operational quirks I've found yet. 

Glad you like the i5, sudden feel very good after a long day

I assume you are using the Mainland China domestic version V1.1, we have a new firmware released on 30th June, it will further improve the system stability and smoothness, but we have also removed the Google Pay from the domestic version, so it is up to you whether you want to install the new firmware to your i5.

cn.cayin.cn/download/show?id=13411

(Sorry, we don't have English version right now, you have to google translate the download page for the moment, subsequent firmware should have an English version as i5 will launch in several oversee markets by that time)

 

[Andykong]

Any chance of auditioning the i5 at Canjam London?

Sorry, we don't have any plan to CanJam London 2016, we have a big show in Hong Kong that we need to attend at roughly the same time.

 

[Andykong]

Hi Andy, I ordered the i5 on Penon Audio two days ago and shall receive it tomorrow, I need to clear some doubts :

1. further to my understanding, I shall be getting the China Mainland version?
2. Can you please confirm if the installation tutorial of the upcoming international rom will be easy for a total noob?

I got some devices bricked when trying to flash custom roms and I just don't wanna spend hundreds to send it back to Hong Kong in case that something went wrong.

3. I saw reviews on youtube saying that the N5's sound quality is less detailed than the Fiio X5II, considering your comment that the i5 has less details than the N5. Does that mean the $469 i5 is worst than the average daps in the $300 zone? 

4. By mentioning ''Musical'' for the i5, you meant on the warm side, fun but still has the same amount of details compared to the N5?

5. I saw 190mw per side for 32 ohms, what is the compatibility with hard to drive cans such as Sennheiser HD800 or earbuds such as VE Zen 2.0 and Dark Horse 400?

(1) I am not familiar with Penon Audio and cannot confirm their source of supply, but right till this moment, Hong Kong distributor is still waiting for their first batch of Cayin i5 yet, the only version available in retail market is Mainland China version

(2) I cannot provide a firmware installation tutorial to flash a Mainland China version i5 into an international version because this will be interpreted as supportive to parallel import and cross-border sales transactions. I'll receive loads of complaint from distributors and re-seller all over the world immediately, and they might even refuse to carry the product. We can't stop customers from doing that, but we must not get caught from doing it directly.

(3) I am afraid I have different opinion regarding "N5's sound quality is less detailed than the Fiio X5II", Sound attributes are difficult to quantified and subjective in most cases, and everyone is entitle to their opinion, it is impossible to cross reference my opinion with another YouTube review opinion and compare X5II vs i5 by "logical deduction".

(4) I'll put i5 and N5 into the same ball park when come to detail reproduction. They are the same Cayin implementation of AK4490, we changed two op-amp in the signal path and that affected the music presentation mainly, not detail reproduction. In fact, because i5 is equipped with better CPU when compare to N5, the AK4490 actually perform better in i5 from digital decoding perspective. Compare the Format supported by the two DAP and you should notice obvious different. If I have to explain the term "musical", I would say you tends to listen to the content of the music rather then paying attention to the different how each note is reproduced. If I were to pick the attributes that affect musicality more, I probably will highlight PRaT: Pace Rhythm Attack Timing, these will added up and become the toe tapability factor of music presentation. Does the sound make you want to tap your toes or wave your hands to synchronized with the beat of the music.

(5) It is difficult to judge the driving capability of a DAP base on the power rating only. The sales might want you to believe that, but the end result can be fairly different. There are numerous factors that affect the driving power, current capacity of the amplification module will definitely make a lot of different but you can't find this information on any specification. The output impedance will affect the damping factor, and hence affect how the amp. control the moving coil.

If you really want to compare the power rating as-is, I can tell you that 190mW+190mW @32ohm is on the high side of DAP market, but won't put it into a power house category. Some of the DAP power rating are measured at unloaded condition, these figures are less relevant even when they are highly impressive.

In terms of driving headphone in reality, the i5 will drive the HD800 to very loud (an indication of enough driving power to some users) but it won't sound good (or should I said expect to sound bad? ). Alternatively if you were to use HD700 instead, the result will be a lot more pleasant. I have zero experience with Dark Horse 400 so I can't comment, but I have the VE Zen 2.0, when I use High Gain, volume at around 50 (out of 100), the VE Zen 2.0 sound loud enough and also sounds pretty good to my ear, well controlled, and show very little sign of dynamic compression only, so I would describe this is a compatible pair.

 

[Andykong]

The provider is the one I was talking about... QOBUZ... I guess you are right, it's all about WiFi speed... Looking forward for more testing
By the way I strongly advise headfiers to give Qobuz a shot, especially if you are into cd quality streaming

Just check out the QOBUZ plans, the Sublime at 219.99 Euro per year is "TRUE CD QUALITY and DOWNLOADING in 24-Bit Hi-Res", does that means audio streaming remain at 16/44.1, but you can download the content to your local storage at 24bit? So this is not Hi-Res streaming in practice?

 

[flognarde]

Some of the streaming is 24bits and it gives you discount when downloading (purchasing) hires' albums.
Personnaly I just got the normal classical subscription which is 15€ a month. I don't have the gear to properly notice any difference between 16 and 24bit
My question was kind of rhetorical. It came from the review of the X7 by Audiogarden.fr (in french sorry).
Nevertheless Qobuz streaming in Flac 16/44.1 is pretty good, work flawlessly and the classical catalogue is impressive.

 

[audio123]

Just curious, will spotify pass through the dac?

 

[Rozenberg]

  work flawlessly and the classical catalogue is impressive.

If you want some classical music, check out Musopen. They provide a collection of classical music in 24bit and is copyright free so you can just download it.
Not to mention the mastering is great too.

 

[audio123]

  If you want some classical music, check out Musopen. They provide a collection of classical music in 24bit and is copyright free so you can just download it.
Not to mention the mastering is great too.

thanks mate