[dura]

Hi, I'm looking for a new DAC and it seems to me Audio-GD makes some very good ones.
Right now I'm wrestling through all the Audio-GD treads, but I fail to get a clear picture of what to expect, sound signature wise.
And there are so many different DACs to choose from, in the same pricerange.
I'm also interesting in the differences, especially musical vs neutral.
 
 
At the moment I'm listening to the MHDT Havana.
I absolutely love the very natural tonality, but it is a little bit too much of a good thing; there is no forward projection and the sound is so smooth and laid back that music looses the ability to grab me.
I mainly listen to my speaker based system (see sign, if my first preference was headphones things would probably be different and I would keep the Havana).
 
I like sound a little bit on the warm side, with some projection of the voice in acoustic recordings.
Otoh, I also listen to electronic music were frequency extremes are more important.
If not for convenience, I would probably own a vinyl system, since I'm completely allergic to 'digital' sound, the unreal hard incisive treble, which is why I like the tube sound of the Havana, but it is too much of a good thing.
Before this I had a Rega Apollo CDP, which despite its tonal flaws I also loved because it did have a pleasing, non-analytical sound. I seemed to hate pretty much all other digital players I could afford.
 
Kingwa's musical DACs seem to offer what I'm looking for, but I'm not opposed to a more neutral sound, as long as it lets the music flow.
Budget is limited to about €1200,-  but it doesn't have to be in the upper rang of my budget.
Right now I'm torn between the DAC19DSP, DAC3-SE and the reference 9.
(The reference 5 might be interesting too, since my amp has balanced-ins. But balanced is not a must-have, since I own some RCA-cables I love).
 
So please, give me your advice and share personal experiences which are very welcome to help me make up my mind.

 

[squall343]

check this website page
 
http://www.audio-gd.com/SoundFlavorsEN.htm
 
Kingwa defined what is musical vs neutral

 

[dura]

I've seen that website ánd I just finished reading through all relevant Audio-GD treads, but I still cannot get a solid idea about the sound signature differences between the different DACs.

 

[Currawong]

I'd stick with a neutral DAC, and tune everything else to your tastes, personally, as it's easier to adapt things further along the chain than if the source is coloured.  But yes, a "more neutral sound, as long as it lets the music flow" is what you'll get from an Audio-gd DAC.  By the way, get a pair of Van Den Hul The Orchid to replace your First Ultimate if you're finding your system to be too polite, and use the First Ultimates for digital instead if you can. 

 

[dura]

Thanks Currawong.
In fact, my system is not too polite, using other sources the sound is spatial and neutral and can be rather dynamic at higher volumes.
It is the Havana that takes well-mannered a little bit too far (though it absolutely is a great DAC imo).
I did try the first ultimate as a digital coax link; I found the sound too sterile compared to my digiflex. Probably the better cable, but it accentuates the politeness of the Havana.
Problem is, I like the system as it is, so I'm not going to change it, the DAC will have to have synergy with amp and speakers.
4 years ago I tried an ARCAM73 CDP; it gave enormous soundstage, lots of deep bass and great detai; for some reason it irritated mne to listen to it within 10 minutes, especially on vocal music.
This year I tried the Meier Stagedac; great machine, even more detail ans bass and soundstage then the Arcam, but again, tonality was not enjoyable with vocal music to my ears.
otoh, I immediately loved the Havana, but lately I found i loose interested in the music easily, it is too laid back.
That is why I'm reluctant tot try something that is described as neutral, I would rather have something like the Havana but with more dynamic power and better frequency extremes.
But I might just be allergic to delta-sigma da-conversion and attribute that by mistake to neutrality...

 

[Omega17TheTrue]

 
Quote:

That is why I'm reluctant tot try something that is described as neutral, I would rather have something like the Havana but with more dynamic power and better frequency extremes.

Someone on this forum has come from your DAC to the reference 1 and said that it was better overall with more dynamic,resolution and frequency extremes, no surprise as it is the weakness of NOS dacs.

 

[oqvist]

From Audio GDs description I would not like their "musical" amps... The DAC19 is plenty warm and soft already. I am being more impressed by my Keces 131 mk 2 combo with the SPL Auditor currently.  The DAC19 should be more safe if you are allergic to treble though. It´s slightly rolled up there I feel and is definiatly warmer but with less impact and drive. If you listen to classical mostly it performs quite well. For rock or music with compression it can get quite thick quite soon on both my headphones and speakers.
 
Wonder if your Havanna may not be similar to the DAC19?  "I absolutely love the very natural tonality, but it is a little bit too much of a good thing; there is no forward projection and the sound is so smooth and laid back that music looses the ability to grab me."
 
To me that sounds like a description on the DAC19. Like the Havanna it doesn´t mean it´s bad quite the opposite.
 
 

 

[dura]

 
Quote:

 


Someone on this forum has come from your DAC to the reference 1 and said that it was better overall with more dynamic,resolution and frequency extremes, no surprise as it is the weakness of NOS dacs.

Thank you, interesting...
Edit: found him of her, it is Scootermaffia.

 
Quote:

From Audio GDs description I would not like their "musical" amps... The DAC19 is plenty warm and soft already. I am being more impressed by my Keces 131 mk 2 combo with the SPL Auditor currently.  The DAC19 should be more safe if you are allergic to treble though. It´s slightly rolled up there I feel and is definiatly warmer but with less impact and drive. If you listen to classical mostly it performs quite well. For rock or music with compression it can get quite thick quite soon on both my headphones and speakers.
 
Wonder if your Havanna may not be similar to the DAC19?  "I absolutely love the very natural tonality, but it is a little bit too much of a good thing; there is no forward projection and the sound is so smooth and laid back that music looses the ability to grab me."
 
To me that sounds like a description on the DAC19. Like the Havanna it doesn´t mean it´s bad quite the opposite.
 
 

 
Hey, that sounds interesting, perhaps the 19 will do it for me.
 
My amp is balanced; would it be a good idea to go for the reference 5? It seems to be a balanced version of the 15.
 

 

[nigeljames]

 
Quote:

It´s slightly rolled up there I feel and is definiatly warmer but with less impact and drive. If you listen to classical mostly it performs quite well. For rock or music with compression it can get quite thick quite soon on both my headphones and speakers.
 

 

So you don't recommend an Audio-gd DAC for Rock/Metal?
What about their Amps (Roc/Phoenix)? Are they recommended for Rock/Metal or are there better alternatives?  Thanks.

 

[oqvist]

I don´t own any audio gd amps I am afraid.

 

[Nada]

 
Quote:

My amp is balanced; would it be a good idea to go for the reference 5?

 
YES. With gear Ive heard balanced all the way yields dividends.
 
I like some of the same music and presentation as you. Don't worry that the "neutral" descriptor might be cool sounding as I found it to be very natural and fluid. On speakers the REF5 gives a FANTASTIC sound stage. If you go for the REF5 get the DSP1 version. 

 

[dura]

Thanks Nada, the Ref5 sounds most interesting at the moment.
I also gave some more thoughts about Currawongs advice to keep the source clean, it is probably a good idea, and since the 19 (and hopefully the REF5 too) have a slightly laid back sound and  treble that is never reported as sharp my confusion about the large collection of Audio-GD DACs slowly lessens.

 

[Currawong]

The "dark" or "laid back" description probably comes from a lack of coloration.  I know I've compared my Reference 1 to a Benchmark DAC 1, and the latter sounds bright and harsh in comparison.  Quite a bit of gear seems to be voiced this way to impress. I certainly wouldn't say they aren't good for any types of music, as that concept tends to come from components further downstream, the headphones or speakers especially, and, if appropriate, the amp driving them. In my rig, after a lot of thought, I decided that the Phoenix was, with my HD-800s and the Reference 1, the place where a little colour could be helpful.  This was after using a high-end tube amp for a while and comparing it to the Luxman P-1. Likewise, the HD-800s needed a re-cable to rectify their "sterile" nature.  I wouldn't say that the music lacks anything now, especially after doing things such as adding a suitable power filter and whatnot.  Mind you, I listen to a lot of acoustic music, which it's mostly suited to.
 
It sounds like Havana to Audio-gd will be a good move going by what you've said. You will likely get a lot more detail and a natural sound, without the necessity of the NOS filter roll-off to fake it.

 

[dura]

Well, the Havana is sold.
Weird DAC; at first I absolutely loved it but it seems to slowly get more and more dull by the day; changing the tubes helps for a few days (doesn't have to be a new tube, just changing, why?), but then it slowly gets more and more laid back again. I'm sure it is not just me, sound stage has clearly gotten more recessed on my speakerbased system.
 
I'm also realising I do not particularly care for laid back sound or rolled-of treble; I like smoothness and  just hate the artifical piercing highs and flawed tonality that many digital devices give, R2R-conversion is perhaps what I'm looking for
Audio-GD seems to be the way to go now, but what type?
I'm inclined to the DAC19DSP now, but the REF3, REF5 and REF9 sound very attractive too...wish I could get more impressions from people that heart them side by side...
I mean, take f.i. the REF5; looks good, but I'll have to buy XLR-cables to, together I'll pay almost twice as much as the DAC19, worth it, and what to expect?
Or should I realise that better is the enemy of good, and just go for the 19...

 

[shogo33]

Dura,
I have a Dac3SE from Audio-GD and although its considered a ''musical'' dac, its not dull/laid back at all.  My taste are similar to yours, where i want some warmth in the vocals without smearing the highs and lows.  I was anxious about spending money on what can be said as word-of mouth reviews and feedback, but truly the Audio-gd stuff is good value for money.  Solidly build, and the sound is what i was aiming for.  If in doubt, go for the dac19dsp, but if i had more money, i would have gone with the Ref9.  I dont think the audio-gd stuff that is musical is as laidback and smooth as other builds.  And not criticising the Paradisea and Havana, but quite a few ppl here in Aus got them and these are now slowly being sold off, I am assuming that the units are not a good match for thier existing system.