Campfire - Solaris
Aug 8, 2020 at 2:31 PM Post #9,751 of 12,035
So I finally did a full session compare/contrast between the Solaris 2020 and my Arya's in the sense that I listened to this album in its entirety with both. First the Arya's, then the Solaris 2020. Both out of my RME ADI-2 DAC FS.

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This is not a "reference" album for me (although the label does tend to produce well, to very well, recorded albums); in fact this is the first time I've ever listened to it.

Again, I'm not good at this sort of thing, and I'm not going to address all the various aspects of sound reproduction, but briefly my impressions were:

The Arya's take on it was more clinical and distant (and even a bit dark): a wider stage, bordering on almost too wide (hence the distant perception), with thinner, sharper instrumentation that resulted in less realism. Good instrument separation and PRaT. The presentation was somewhat cold and lifeless; an overall "here's the music, presented accurately in a clinical way, but you won't enjoy it much" which is how I have come to view this headphone after many months of having it. Technically very good, but simply not very engaging or even "naturally accurate" (lacking in realism).

The Solaris had a closer presentation with less separation between the instruments. But it didn't matter: there was still enough space in both the sound stage and between the instruments that I didn't feel closed in nor that the sound was congested. In fact, compared to the more distant reproduction on the Arya, I much preferred this more intimate sound stage; it seemed more what the producers intended (I've always found that the Arya's are too recessed in the mids in a trade off for a wider sound stage). PRaT was basically the same. The overall presentation with the Solaris was much better imo: the instruments were much fuller bodied with verve, weight, resonance (but not too much it veered into chestiness which I dislike), more bite (this is also the case on guitars, both acoustic and electric), warmth (but never too smooth), and even a touch of sweetness or romance, yet still a very clear, detailed and articulate sound. In fact, and this surprised me some, the Solaris had more easily discernible micro detail and brought out the nuances and subtleties in the performance more. With the Arya's those seemed clouded by the "darker" sound and distantness, even though its thinner more analytical tonality should have made micro details stand out more. But the Solaris also had much better layering which helped the instruments sound more "real", natural, tangible, "live", and organic.

Anyway, this is kind of stream-of-consciousness stuff so sorry for the imprecision. In a word, I much preferred the Solaris over the Ayra's here, as I do with all other music I've thrown at the Solaris, even if I'm mostly going by memory of how the Arya's have reproduced that music.

Btw, I'm not comparing the Blessing 2's to the Solaris yet because I feel they aren't in the "same league" as the Ayras and Solaris are.

PS: I'm listening to Bobby Hutcherson's "Togo Land" from his Head On album, comparing the Solaris and Ayra's, and this is a well known to me reference track. The Solaris sounds better to me in every way possible with this very interesting and complex track. Percussion is especially better: more nuanced, weighty, impactful, layered and detailed. It sounds close to perfect. Incredible.

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That's a really great endorsement for the Solaris! I totally agree - the 2020s sound incredible - or rather, they make music sound incredible. Was listening to Dylan's new album Rough and Rowdy Ways yesterday and my heart was in my mouth.

Can I just ask, as an aside - are you aware that 'prat' is a derogatory slang word here in UK?
 
Aug 8, 2020 at 2:38 PM Post #9,752 of 12,035
That's a really great endorsement for the Solaris! I totally agree - the 2020s sound incredible - or rather, they make music sound incredible. Was listening to Dylan's new album Rough and Rowdy Ways yesterday and my heart was in my mouth.

Can I just ask, as an aside - are you aware that 'prat' is a derogatory slang word here in UK?

That’s bollocks. :wink:
 
Aug 8, 2020 at 2:57 PM Post #9,753 of 12,035
That's a really great endorsement for the Solaris! I totally agree - the 2020s sound incredible - or rather, they make music sound incredible. Was listening to Dylan's new album Rough and Rowdy Ways yesterday and my heart was in my mouth.

Can I just ask, as an aside - are you aware that 'prat' is a derogatory slang word here in UK?

Yea, I'm really surprised that the Solaris can go head to head with a very good full sized open back headphone and come out as preferable not just in tonality, but also in most technicalities.

But perhaps that shows how much I dislike the presentation of the Ayra's; a full sized open back headphone that I liked more may be preferable to me over the Solaris*; however, I don't feel that any such headphone would destroy them. The Solaris truly are exceptional sounding even given their IEM limitations.

*I hope to find this out when I get the ZMF Auteurs which (I hope) should be more to my liking than the Ayra's.

PS: I used PRaT in the musical terminology sense of Pace Rhythm and Timing, hence the capitalization. No offense meant to anyone!

(If you're just joking then sorry for failing to grasp that intention).
 
Aug 8, 2020 at 3:04 PM Post #9,754 of 12,035
Yea, I'm really surprised that the Solaris can go head to head with a very good full sized open back headphone and come out as preferable not just in tonality, but also in most technicalities.

But perhaps that shows how much I dislike the presentation of the Ayra's; a full sized open back headphone that I liked more may be preferable to me over the Solaris*; however, I don't feel that any such headphone would destroy them. The Solaris truly are exceptional sounding even given their IEM limitations.

*I hope to find this out when I get the ZMF Auteurs which (I hope) should be more to my liking than the Ayra's.

PS: I used PRaT in the musical terminology sense of Pace Rhythm and Timing, hence the capitalization. No offense meant to anyone!

(If you're just joking then sorry for failing to grasp that intention).

No, I know what PRaT means, but every time I see it, it makes me laugh.
 
Aug 8, 2020 at 10:50 PM Post #9,755 of 12,035
Here’s a question that might seem odd—am I the only one who finds the treble on Solaris (OG) fatiguing? After several years loving the Campfire Lyra 2’s, I upgraded 7 months ago to Solaris. They’re amazing, I love them, except sometimes I have to take them out because the high end gets to be too much. FWIW, I’m 56 with just the slightest hint of tinnitus, and I listen at very reasonable volume either directly out of an iPhone X, or iPhone to Hugo2.

I’ve been considering getting the 2020 for the size, color, and midrange tweaks, but the reviews have been confusing—some say they’re brighter, which wouldn’t work for me, while some say the treble is more controlled, which could be what I need. I’d love to hear more from anyone that’s heard both. Thanks!
 
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Aug 9, 2020 at 1:00 AM Post #9,757 of 12,035
Me either. They're killing my Arya's in that regard for one thing, and even rival some of my speakers in certain aspects, such as realism, which is just amazing.


I'm planning to get the Arya's as my first open back headphones, is it still a worth it purchase in terms of sound quality vs the solaris? Thanks
 
Aug 9, 2020 at 1:08 AM Post #9,758 of 12,035
Here’s a question that might seem odd—am I the only one who finds the treble on Solaris (OG) fatiguing? After several years loving the Campfire Lyra 2’s, I upgraded 7 months ago to Solaris. They’re amazing, I love them, except sometimes I have to take them out because the high end gets to be too much. FWIW, I’m 56 with just the slightest hint of tinnitus, and I listen at very reasonable volume.

It's not a common complaint but I don't think you're the first no-- different people are sensitive to different frequencies. What is your source?
 
Aug 9, 2020 at 3:20 AM Post #9,760 of 12,035
Forgot to mention—either directly out of an iPhone X, or iPhone to Hugo2. Just edited my original post. Thanks!
I'm not a treble fan. Source plays a big part. I now have a Sony ZX507, and the treble is present but smooth as silk to my ears. Even with items a felt a little hot like bgvp dm6, I realize the Sony sound does the trick for sure. Hugo 2 definitely has more treble presence than a Chord Mojo as well as the peaky iPhones. A warmer source would probably change your mind on your thoughts on the Solaris
 
Aug 9, 2020 at 4:18 AM Post #9,761 of 12,035
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Aug 9, 2020 at 2:46 PM Post #9,762 of 12,035
No, I know what PRaT means, but every time I see it, it makes me laugh.

Haha, ok, no worries.

Frankly I skimmed over that phrase for quite awhile when I first came to reading reviews of hi-fi gear, so I don't assume everyone else knows what it refers to in that context as I was willfully ignorant of it for some time myself.


Me either. They're killing my Arya's in that regard for one thing, and even rival some of my speakers in certain aspects, such as realism, which is just amazing.


I'm planning to get the Arya's as my first open back headphones, is it still a worth it purchase in terms of sound quality vs the solaris? Thanks

Gah. This is impossible to answer really since we all have different preferences.

The Arya's are highly capable headphones. I felt that way when I first got them and still do. They were the first $1000+ purchase for me in headphones and showed me what high end phones can do (rival good speakers in many respects). (And they finally convinced me that it was ok to spend that type of money on these things).

But ever since I got them I also felt something was off about their tonality. Something did not satisfy even as impressed as I was (am) by their technicalities. (I tried to remedy this with EQ and various amps, which, having done this before with speakers, I should have known better than, and of course it did not work: you can't fundamentally alter a transducer's sound with making changes in the chain behind it ime). They simply aren't engaging enough for me and their mids, especially vocals, are too distant/recessed.

So if you have the Solaris and like that presentation then you may not, like me, like the presentation (at least as much) of the Arya's, which I have tried to compare/contrast a bit with the Solaris in my earlier post, as it is quite a bit different. Or maybe you'll like it better; you'll discover this more analytic/clinical, distant, "intellectual" approach with more sound stage is more to your preference.

I will say that the Arya's are very comfortable if that's part of what is motivating your decision; however I also find the Solaris 2020 very comfortable. I can have them in my ears for hours and hours on end without issue (I have medium sized ears). I actually listened to them for over 9 hours the other day with only a few very short breaks for routine things like making short business calls or using the restroom. I didn't tire of them in my ears, nor did I fatigue of their sound with different genres (but mostly more "in your face/intense" music like rock, metal, energetic jazz, etc).

Really there is no way for you to know what to do here outside of trying the Arya's for yourself. That's the best advice I can give.

EDIT: Just did a tiny bit of a/b'ing again with the Solaris 2020 and Arya's and there is just something off to me about the Arya's tonality, especially with pop/rock. They sound sharp, etchy, kind of dry, the highs are almost "metalicy", and the vocals especially are thin (if articulate). Beyond all that, they just don't engage you, draw you into the music. You definitely feel more like an observer, a clinician, overviewing and critiquing the sound instead of "living it". That's partly due to their tonality and partly due to the almost "you are hovering above the sound stage" instead of being immersed in it presentation. They still remain very good headphones, however; again, the technicalities such as imaging, PRaT, decay, instrument separation, etc. are all good to very good.
 
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Aug 9, 2020 at 3:45 PM Post #9,763 of 12,035
Haha, ok, no worries.

Frankly I skimmed over that phrase for quite awhile when I first came to reading reviews of hi-fi gear, so I don't assume everyone else knows what it refers to in that context as I was willfully ignorant of it for some time myself.




Gah. This is impossible to answer really since we all have different preferences.

The Arya's are highly capable headphones. I felt that way when I first got them and still do. They were the first $1000+ purchase for me in headphones and showed me what high end phones can do (rival good speakers in many respects). (And they finally convinced me that it was ok to spend that type of money on these things).

But ever since I got them I also felt something was off about their tonality. Something did not satisfy even as impressed as I was (am) by their technicalities. (I tried to remedy this with EQ and various amps, which, having done this before with speakers, I should have known better than, and of course it did not work: you can't fundamentally alter a transducer's sound with making changes in the chain behind it ime). They simply aren't engaging enough for me and their mids, especially vocals, are too distant/recessed.

So if you have the Solaris and like that presentation then you may not, like me, like the presentation (at least as much) of the Arya's, which I have tried to compare/contrast a bit with the Solaris in my earlier post, as it is quite a bit different. Or maybe you'll like it better; you'll discover this more analytic/clinical, distant, "intellectual" approach with more sound stage is more to your preference.

I will say that the Arya's are very comfortable if that's part of what is motivating your decision; however I also find the Solaris 2020 very comfortable. I can have them in my ears for hours and hours on end without issue (I have medium sized ears). I actually listened to them for over 9 hours the other day with only a few very short breaks for routine things like making short business calls or using the restroom. I didn't tire of them in my ears, nor did I fatigue of their sound with different genres (but mostly more "in your face/intense" music like rock, metal, energetic jazz, etc).

Really there is no way for you to know what to do here outside of trying the Arya's for yourself. That's the best advice I can give.

Props man-- I have really been enjoying your insightful and very well written impressions.
 
Aug 9, 2020 at 4:33 PM Post #9,764 of 12,035
Props man-- I have really been enjoying your insightful and very well written impressions.

Thank you very much...I wrote that last one half awake actually.

I should apologize for being remiss in my gratitude towards you; your "4 way shootout", for instance, was very well written and detailed/knowledgeable and helped guide my decision in favor of the Solaris 2020. So thanks! :thumbsup:
 
Aug 9, 2020 at 8:37 PM Post #9,765 of 12,035
Here’s a question that might seem odd—am I the only one who finds the treble on Solaris (OG) fatiguing? After several years loving the Campfire Lyra 2’s, I upgraded 7 months ago to Solaris. They’re amazing, I love them, except sometimes I have to take them out because the high end gets to be too much. FWIW, I’m 56 with just the slightest hint of tinnitus, and I listen at very reasonable volume either directly out of an iPhone X, or iPhone to Hugo2.

I’ve been considering getting the 2020 for the size, color, and midrange tweaks, but the reviews have been confusing—some say they’re brighter, which wouldn’t work for me, while some say the treble is more controlled, which could be what I need. I’d love to hear more from anyone that’s heard both. Thanks!

I have both Lyra II and Solaris 2020. Lyra II is hard to beat with its warm smooth signature for relaxed listen. Having said that, I don't find the Solaris 2020 fatiguing treble wise. Still trying to find the right synergy with Solaris 2020 though.
 

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