Calling All "Vintage" Integrated/Receiver Owners
Dec 9, 2011 at 4:13 PM Post #3,421 of 19,142
2011 Stereophile Headphone of the year
UE 18 Pro custom monitor in-ear headphones ($1350)
 
Runners-up
Antelope Audio Zodiac Gold D/A headphone amplifier ($4495)
JH Audio JH16 pro in-ear headphones ($1149)
Smyth SVS Realiser A8 system ($3670)
 
Dec 9, 2011 at 4:14 PM Post #3,422 of 19,142
I have three vintage tube amps that have been completely recapped by me and are used as headphone amps: Fisher X-101C, Kenwood KW-40 and AKAI M8 monoblocks.  Pictures of all three are below:
 

 

 

 
Dec 9, 2011 at 4:22 PM Post #3,423 of 19,142


Quote:
I also have a Fisher X-100, and I love it.  However, finding vintage tube amps in good operating condition is more challenging than the vintage SS stuff.  I love the Fisher, but I got mine recapped - a tube amp with bad caps is a much bigger problem than a SS one.



That's the negative about buying vintage tube amps. You have a much higher chance of finding a vintage ss in good condition. Most of the ones sold on ebay are listed as parts a repair only. But if happen to find one serviced/restored/, then you really have something. But even if you chose to go the route of getting one with the purpose of getting it serviced, it's still worth it and much cheaper than buying a modern piece that will sound as good. Would I trade mine for a modern piece? Sure(not likely), but it wont be for a 500.00 or even a 1000.00 amp. Because then IMO I would be getting the worst end of the deal. That's how much I like my fisher. But others(who have experience with these) are welcome to disagree.
 
Dec 9, 2011 at 4:22 PM Post #3,424 of 19,142
Yes, I was very, very lucky with the prices on all of my vintage tube equipment as well as the cost of their refurbishment. Somebody, somewhere will also find an SX-1250 in perfect working order at a yard sale for $50 or so next year. Such things happen.
 
Using sales on Audiogon as a price guide, early-60s tube equipment can get you into quality tube audio but without a significant cost advantage over modern used gear, after factoring in the recapping and tuning that's more often required for 50 year old electronics. You also miss amenities like auto-biasing, and audio purists with vintage gear get extra switches in the signal path for functions we don't use any more.
 
I don't want to discourage anybody from pursuing this stuff (if I hated it, I wouldn't have it!), but I don't want to understate the total cost of ownership either.
 
Dec 9, 2011 at 4:48 PM Post #3,425 of 19,142
Also the build quality of these things can't be understated. Let me share something that happened several months ago. At one point I had the fisher set up with a system I was using upstairs in my office. I had the fisher sitting on a rack in front of a window. I use to love sitting back at night in my lazy chair with the window up enjoying the cool open air breeze while enjoying the sweet sounds of the fisher.
 
One night I turned my fisher on and went downstairs to get a snack while it was warming up. And out of nowhere it started raining hard, and I had left the window open. My heart sunk. When I got back upstairs, the fisher was smoking and it smelled like the house was on fire. I even tripped not only the breaker in that room, but the whole house.
 
Once I unplugged it, all of the output tubes were shattered, and two of the input tubes were blown as well. I was devastated. I had blown my fisher!!! I was prepared to spend whatever it took to get it repaired, but I knew parts may not be easy to come by. I opened it up to see what else was damaged. I tested the rest of the 12ax7s and they were still good. I found a pair of the very rare 7868 on line that tested near nos, and pick up a pair of some nice sylvannia 12ax7s. Plugged them in and the fisher was singing again.
 
I took it to a local shop that I use to service all of my gear, and the guy told me that everything else was good. Not a bad resistor or cap anywhere. The output tubes were fine. The only thing the rain did was blow my tubes. If you would have seen what I saw, you would have been convinced as I was the whole thing was blown. But with a change of tubes it was back to playing the way it was previously. Well with the better tubes I bought, it actually sounds better now. These things are built to last.
 
Dec 9, 2011 at 4:56 PM Post #3,426 of 19,142
You can get fully modded/restored Scott tube integrateds from these guys, which I'm sure are awesome, but they are not cheap (although they are not that expensive either, in the scheme of things):
 
http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/Ultra-Modified-Vintage-Tube-Amps/products/178/
 
I have been often tempted to buy one, but have never pulled the trigger.
 
Dec 9, 2011 at 7:48 PM Post #3,428 of 19,142
Quote:
I have three vintage tube amps that have been completely recapped by me and are used as headphone amps: Fisher X-101C, Kenwood KW-40 and AKAI M8 monoblocks.  Pictures of all three are below:

 
Nice units, ive been looking into mono-blocks, and the ones you have seem to not be name brand, so IMO you must of gotten a good deal.
 
Quote:
Yes, I was very, very lucky with the prices on all of my vintage tube equipment as well as the cost of their refurbishment. Somebody, somewhere will also find an SX-1250 in perfect working order at a yard sale for $50 or so next year. Such things happen.
 
Using sales on Audiogon as a price guide, early-60s tube equipment can get you into quality tube audio but without a significant cost advantage over modern used gear, after factoring in the recapping and tuning that's more often required for 50 year old electronics. You also miss amenities like auto-biasing, and audio purists with vintage gear get extra switches in the signal path for functions we don't use any more.
 
I don't want to discourage anybody from pursuing this stuff (if I hated it, I wouldn't have it!), but I don't want to understate the total cost of ownership either.


I paid $450 6 months ago for mine, and im very happy. About average for craigslist, and mine's in great condition.
 
Quote:
Also the build quality of these things can't be understated. Let me share something that happened several months ago. At one point I had the fisher set up with a system I was using upstairs in my office. I had the fisher sitting on a rack in front of a window. I use to love sitting back at night in my lazy chair with the window up enjoying the cool open air breeze while enjoying the sweet sounds of the fisher.
 
One night I turned my fisher on and went downstairs to get a snack while it was warming up. And out of nowhere it started raining hard, and I had left the window open. My heart sunk. When I got back upstairs, the fisher was smoking and it smelled like the house was on fire. I even tripped not only the breaker in that room, but the whole house.
 
Once I unplugged it, all of the output tubes were shattered, and two of the input tubes were blown as well. I was devastated. I had blown my fisher!!! I was prepared to spend whatever it took to get it repaired, but I knew parts may not be easy to come by. I opened it up to see what else was damaged. I tested the rest of the 12ax7s and they were still good. I found a pair of the very rare 7868 on line that tested near nos, and pick up a pair of some nice sylvannia 12ax7s. Plugged them in and the fisher was singing again.
 
I took it to a local shop that I use to service all of my gear, and the guy told me that everything else was good. Not a bad resistor or cap anywhere. The output tubes were fine. The only thing the rain did was blow my tubes. If you would have seen what I saw, you would have been convinced as I was the whole thing was blown. But with a change of tubes it was back to playing the way it was previously. Well with the better tubes I bought, it actually sounds better now. These things are built to last.


So sorry to hear about that. If i were to get tube gear, i also like to open my window, but my gear would be far out of reach for the water to hit it. It might also be temperature/ humidity as well that can affect tubes.
 
 
Dec 9, 2011 at 7:51 PM Post #3,429 of 19,142
Quote:
You can get fully modded/restored Scott tube integrateds from these guys, which I'm sure are awesome, but they are not cheap (although they are not that expensive either, in the scheme of things):


Similarly, I've been tempted to send Mapleshade my Scott, since it's a model they're familiar with, and they have a healthy, positive reputation. I might also do the work myself. Old tube amps are all point-to-point wiring with nice fat solder joints, so setting aside feeling nervousness about fiddling with the wiring in electronics this old it should be much easier to work on than anything more recent. But then the real question comes of whether I just want to be able to upgrade some components to nicer things or do a real hot-rod and replace the RCA jacks, bypass all controls but the volume and source switch, replace the captive power cord with an IEC socket, and so on. The mind reels.
 
Dec 9, 2011 at 10:25 PM Post #3,430 of 19,142


Quote:
In my experience with my fisher I would have to disagree about value. Keep in mind I paid 250.00 for mine that was partially restored(you don't have to pay megabuck for them). Also the cost to refurbish one isn't that expensive. Like I said earlier, just the headphone out on mine sounds better than a wa6 which is more than twice the price. It's close to a wa22 which is almost ten times the price. No where will you find a modern amp that could even come close to the sound of the fisher for even double of what I paid for it.  And that's just talking about the headphone out. I like it as a speaker amp even more. You will have to spend 4 figures to beat it. The only amps I've heard that were better were in excess of 4 figures. The value in vintage tube gear is just as high if not higher than ss gear. There's a reason why they have been skyrocketing in price.


I had my Fisher X-100B restored by Paul at Tube Audio Design.  He also re-wired the headphone out direct to the 16 ohm taps.  My total investment after re-furb around $500.  I had a WA22 at the time to compare it to.  Honestly, there was / is very little difference.  Sold the Woo.
 
 
Dec 10, 2011 at 12:09 AM Post #3,431 of 19,142


Quote:
 
Nice units, ive been looking into mono-blocks, and the ones you have seem to not be name brand, so IMO you must of gotten a good deal.


The AKAIs came out of a suitcase reel-to-reel player.  Same amps were branded Roberts.
 
Dec 10, 2011 at 12:36 PM Post #3,432 of 19,142
Quote:
The AKAIs came out of a suitcase reel-to-reel player.  Same amps were branded Roberts.


I found that they came out of the M-8 Reel-to-Reel. What speakers do you have running with them? How many watts? Also of old amps and stuff like this, and having custom speaker wire, it's thick, so how do you replace the speaker terminals?
 
 
Dec 10, 2011 at 1:29 PM Post #3,433 of 19,142


Quote:
I found that they came out of the M-8 Reel-to-Reel. What speakers do you have running with them? How many watts? Also of old amps and stuff like this, and having custom speaker wire, it's thick, so how do you replace the speaker terminals?
 


Yep, out of an M8 rtr.  I've hooked them up to my Klipsch KLF-20s once, they sounded great.  Use them mainly as a headphone amp.  Think they put out 4-6 watts each, typically for a single ended pentode amp.  No, I didn't replace the speaker terminals, which are 1/4" jacks that take mono guitar type plugs.  Just built myself a pair of speaker wires terminated in 1/4 mono male plugs on one end.
 
 
Dec 10, 2011 at 3:15 PM Post #3,435 of 19,142
LOL! And what would that be?
 

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