Calling All "Vintage" Integrated/Receiver Owners
Jul 30, 2015 at 4:42 PM Post #14,776 of 19,143
Thanks for the very thorough advice, everyone, especially with the discussion of the medium's drawbacks. I don't intend for cassettes to replace CDs as my main medium of music, and I certainly don't expect to get the same reliable SQ that I would from digital mediums or from a good vinyl setup, but I do want a well-respected deck so that I can get the best I can out of the limited medium. I'm under no delusion that tapes will become a dominant part of the music industry again, but many of my favorite artists who typically release only on Bandcamp are also doing limited tape runs en lieu of a CD or vinyl release, since it's much cheaper for them to do so than to tie up their money for ten months waiting for vinyl to be pressed. A surprisingly large number of unsigned artists do small runs of relatively inexpensive tapes these days, and as a sucker for having a physical manifestation of my music, I prefer a CD, LP, or tape to a set of FLAC files. Most of those artists don't have access to world-class studios and probably originally record to MP3 because they don't know any better, so I don't think I would get that much benefit from something as highly regarded as the Dragon, but I'll look around for some solid mid-end gear from TEAC, Pioneer, Technics, and Nakamichi.
 
Jul 30, 2015 at 5:35 PM Post #14,777 of 19,143
  Thanks for the very thorough advice, everyone, especially with the discussion of the medium's drawbacks. I don't intend for cassettes to replace CDs as my main medium of music, and I certainly don't expect to get the same reliable SQ that I would from digital mediums or from a good vinyl setup, but I do want a well-respected deck so that I can get the best I can out of the limited medium. I'm under no delusion that tapes will become a dominant part of the music industry again, but many of my favorite artists who typically release only on Bandcamp are also doing limited tape runs en lieu of a CD or vinyl release, since it's much cheaper for them to do so than to tie up their money for ten months waiting for vinyl to be pressed. A surprisingly large number of unsigned artists do small runs of relatively inexpensive tapes these days, and as a sucker for having a physical manifestation of my music, I prefer a CD, LP, or tape to a set of FLAC files. Most of those artists don't have access to world-class studios and probably originally record to MP3 because they don't know any better, so I don't think I would get that much benefit from something as highly regarded as the Dragon, but I'll look around for some solid mid-end gear from TEAC, Pioneer, Technics, and Nakamichi.

 
I agree with almost all of what you said. The only thing that surprises me is your comment about tapes being "relatively inexpensive". Today, producing small runs of audio CDs as CD-R's has gotten VERY cheap. (You can make CDs one at a time, in about five minutes each, on any home computer, and the blanks cost about 25 cents each so, if you're willing to print your own labels, and stick them on yourself, you can do them for about $1 each; or you can have CDs commercially produced, with nice labels, jewel cases, and jewel case booklets, for a few dollars each in quantities as small as a few hundred, and the lead time isn't bad at all. As a specific example, one well known duplicator will print you 100 audio CDs, with jewel cases, labels, and inserts, on a one week turnaround, for $2.60 each. It's hard to imagine cassettes being much cheaper than that.) 
 
Also, assuming that they are mastering their content digitally, even an individually copied CD-R will retain the full quality of the original, while a cheaply produced cassette is likely to have even poorer audio quality than one produced on high quality replicating equipment. (I'm inclined to believe that, today, issuing music on cassette would be more of a "philosophical retro statement" than a well thought out decision in economy.... and, given the choice, if they're offering both, I'd go for the CD for lots of reasons.)
 
Honestly, the only reason I can imagine for using cassettes is that either you already have a lot of cassettes with content that you like, or you have some ready source of content you like on cassette that isn't available in other formats. 
 
Jul 30, 2015 at 8:22 PM Post #14,778 of 19,143
Goodwill sells mass quantities of cassettes for 25 cents each. They want $1 for horribly wrecked LPs, and $2 for used CDs. So cassettes are the cheapest way to buy whole albums of music by far.

That said, cassette is the worst sounding pre-recorded medium there ever was. Even 8-track sounded better. It's not bad sounding, most of the time, but it's commercial cassettes varied from pretty good to awful.

BUT - if you can buy good music you like on cassette, get a deck! I like having a cassette deck even though I rarely use mine.
 
Jul 30, 2015 at 10:43 PM Post #14,779 of 19,143
Yeah, the general idea is to get a good deck so that when I happen to come across a good recording on cassette, I can actually enjoy it. Most of the time it'll be overkill, but I will know that I have something decent when the occasion arises.
 
As for questions about the viability of cassettes as a modern medium in general, I can't answer for the fact that many of my artists go the cassette route instead of CD, but they simply do. When an artist on a small netlabel or a self-releaser on Bandcamp does a physical release these days, at least in the musical circles I'm running in, they are much more likely to release on cassette than on CD. And a cassette costs anywhere between 1/4 and 1/2 as much as a CD to the end consumer, too, so it seems to work for everybody. I don't claim any vast knowledge of the economics and culture behind that choice of format, but I know that I can't get a number of my favorite artists on CD and I can get them on cassette.
 
Jul 31, 2015 at 9:41 AM Post #14,780 of 19,143
Goodwill sells mass quantities of cassettes for 25 cents each. They want $1 for horribly wrecked LPs, and $2 for used CDs. So cassettes are the cheapest way to buy whole albums of music by far.

That said, cassette is the worst sounding pre-recorded medium there ever was. Even 8-track sounded better. It's not bad sounding, most of the time, but it's commercial cassettes varied from pretty good to awful.

BUT - if you can buy good music you like on cassette, get a deck! I like having a cassette deck even though I rarely use mine.

 
Yes - most of the LPs you find in GW are totally trashed.  That said - if you are persistent there are gems to be found.  In the last month or so I have found NM copies of Maynard Ferguson (conquistador), Dave Brubeck (greatest hits), and The Ramsey Lewis Trio (upendo ni pamoja).  Have also found near min copies of James Taylor (sweet baby james) - plastic shrink still in tack!  All of these for $1 each.  
 
Jul 31, 2015 at 9:46 AM Post #14,781 of 19,143
I might also mention that side two of the Ramsey Lewis vinyl is totally awesome if you are a Jazz fan!
 
Jul 31, 2015 at 10:36 PM Post #14,782 of 19,143
If you do look for a vintage cassette, look for one with a single cassette bay and Dolby B only. Cassette decks "jumped the shark" once Dolby C was introduced, and at about that time, manufacturers decided to stick two cassette bays on all their units (for "Dubbing"), as an enticement to buy what was by then really low-end junk.
 
Aug 1, 2015 at 12:11 AM Post #14,783 of 19,143
If you do look for a vintage cassette, look for one with a single cassette bay and Dolby B only. Cassette decks "jumped the shark" once Dolby C was introduced, and at about that time, manufacturers decided to stick two cassette bays on all their units (for "Dubbing"), as an enticement to buy what was by then really low-end junk.

 
Generally, true.
 
Technics did offer, in its latest generation of cassette decks, BOTH worlds. The dreaded two bay low-end junk version ( forgot the model) and a thoroughbred single tray hi-end machine - the RS -AZ 7 ( and to a slightly lesser degree, RS-AZ 6 ). This one has a GREAT Dolby C - and in "7", there is a rare feature of bypassing the playback tape bias filtering ( WITHOUT Dolby ,available during reproduction only, which is to say you can not listen to the full fidelity during monitoring; just like with 99.99% of all the decks out there.)
 
"7" really comes to life during reproduction - and, IF you decide to go all the way, by adding outboard noise reduction in the form of two ( to allow monitoring during the recording ) Nakamichi High Com II noise reduction units. Then it becomes one of the most capable tape machines ever - reel to reel units included. You are unlikely to find anything that will challenge it in the bass; no studio reel to reel I have heard can deliver the kind of precision of response below 100 Hz that RS-AZ 7 with Naka High Com II noise reduction units can.
 
Aug 2, 2015 at 12:16 PM Post #14,784 of 19,143
Perhaps I'm searching in all the wrong places, but I was looking for a general turntable thread and couldn't find one today, so I thought I'd turn here. Sorry if it's off-topic, but I figured vintage and vinyl go hand in hand, so I'd try my luck.
 
In addition to obtaining a tape deck, which we've already discussed in full, I'm in dire need of an upgrade to my record player's cartridge and stylus, which right now is a low-end Shure unit because my old Grado gave out on me a few years ago and I never listened to vinyl enough at the time to justify spending good money to replace it. The turntable is a Technics SL-QD33, which requires a P-mount cartridge, and right now I'm looking mostly at the Shure M97xE or the Grado Prestige Black 1. Does anybody have experience with either of these or other recommendations to make? I prefer to shop around the $60-$150 mark, since this still isn't a super high-priority section of my setup.
 
Edit: I've noticed that the M97xE isn't a P-mount, but I've read of people using it on the same model of turntable I own. Perhaps I have a conversion piece on the arm.
 
Aug 2, 2015 at 12:49 PM Post #14,785 of 19,143
I have the same turntable as my back up. I have an at3482p installed and its surprisingly good for 20 bucks on amazon. I also have an at92e that I seem to remember liking less. I'll dig out the turntable and goof around with them and let you know.
 
Aug 2, 2015 at 1:47 PM Post #14,786 of 19,143
I have the same turntable as my back up. I have an at3482p installed and its surprisingly good for 20 bucks on amazon. I also have an at92e that I seem to remember liking less. I'll dig out the turntable and goof around with them and let you know.


Thanks for doing that! I have a Shure Pro Track 6 on it right now, which I believe is out of production but may be a cousin of the M92E. At the moment I'm leaning most toward the Grado option, but that's mostly for lack of competition at this price point. Ortofon used to have some good P-mount cartridges, but apparently they've stopped making them now.
 
Aug 2, 2015 at 1:53 PM Post #14,787 of 19,143
Just did a quick listen. The at3482p is amazing for the money (17 and change on amazon prime) I'm pretty impressed with this cart, good detail and bass. The at 92e isn't bad, but a little dead sounding. Reminds me of some shure carts. Get the 3482p, it's cheap enough that of you don't like it, it's no big deal...
 
Aug 2, 2015 at 2:20 PM Post #14,788 of 19,143
Ssrock, if you really start getting into vinyl, I would recommend tracking down a vintage wood bodied table with a standard mount head shell. Drastically widens your cartridge options, and the mid level and up turntables from the 70's can sound amazing.
 
Aug 2, 2015 at 2:41 PM Post #14,789 of 19,143
Yeah, I know I'm extremely limited by the P-mount and the bargain turntable. Only about ten percent of my collection is on vinyl, and most modern vinyl includes a digital download in addition to the physical LP, so it's still not very high priority. I'll see where this next cartridge takes me, and if it's not satisfactory I'll likely invest in a standard mount TT.
 

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