[scottiebabie]

too bad 'bout the Pioneer Rob, suxs for sure! shipping costs aside, this is the major reason im gonna stick to buying big ass heavy amps locally as i get to eyeball the condition & ensure the amps working as stated. plus i get to rag 'bout defects so buddie lowers his price! LOL. ya ya i know im a cheap ass bargain pooper shopper but hey, how else can i finance this addicting habit on my limited "allowance". heh. hope u get this resolved amicably - now go look for an SX-1050/1250 as i toldya! LOL
 
OTOH congrats on the Sony. its one of the best looking vintage receivers to my eyes. i had (sold it off not too long ago) the younger bratha STR-6800SD which is basically the same config with a huge toroidal trafo, Darlington power outputs, mosfet 4gang tuner, 3speakers outs, adapter loop, dolby FM (??), etc.. 'cept for 30w/channel less. broke my heart to sell cos i really really lov'd the look&feel of it but the "boss" woudnt allocate more funds for new acquisitions so somethings had to go. it was fine on speakers but i must admit i wasnt too enamor'd of it as a headamp. cant wait to hear what u think of it.
 
nice 9090 too. havent heard this particular model though i really really like the G-9000 

 

[Skylab]

It's pretty amazing how huge and heavy both the Sansui and Sony are. I mean MASSIVE. Both have absolutely enormous power transformers. The Sansui won't fit in any rack I own, as it's 21 plus inches wide. It's the most monsterous thing I have ever seen. I absolutely love it

Via it's tuner at least, the 9090 is pretty warm and ripe via headphones, at least lower impedance ones. Need to try it with the T1's. All I know so far about the Sony is that it works and is clean, meaning no hiss or distortion, although some controls need blowing out with contact cleaner for sure.

 

[scottiebabie]

Quote:

It's pretty amazing how huge and heavy both the Sansui and Sony are. I mean MASSIVE. Both have absolutely enormous power transformers. The Sansui won't fit in any rack I own, as it's 21 plus inches wide. It's the most monsterous thing I have ever seen. I absolutely love it

ROTFL!! welcome to the club mon ami. next thing u know, u end up with a wall of amps/receivers & a huge electrical bill. but trust me, theres nothing like walking into a room with the "wall' lit up with em gear! then u say....AHH LUB TIS!
 

 

[francisdemarte]

Some people have no idea about packaging. I received a CD player once with no packing at all, just knocking around in this big old box (thankfully it was okay). Some people are the opposite and wrap even cheap items up like a Russian Doll, with so many layers of wrapping that it costs twice as much postage. Eek.   

I took a gamble and ordered my Marantz and Sony PS-X7 turntable off of ebay too. The Marantz arrived double boxed, padded with old pillow cases, window curtains, egg crates, mis-matched bubble wrap, pretty much everything but the kitchen sink!

My turntable came with a few pieces of thin foam, the dust cover was in pieces. Some sellers just are either lazy or cheap to package correctly.

 

[Shahrose]

I got my dad's old Pioneer A-447 Integrated amp. This thing is definitely better than most headphone amps I've heard...surprisingly very tubey sounding without being mushy/slow. Massive soundstage and very liquid. Transparency is not a strong suit, but when you make sources sound like that, I think most would forget about transparency.
 
The old-school bass and treble controls are pretty useful too. It's quite large/heavy and looks great. I had some friends come in and ask me how much I spent on it, thinking it was another crazy >$1k purchase.
 
Pics here (not my own): http://xarchiwum.pl/wysokiej-klasy-pioneer-model-a-447-i1381661347.html

 

[Shahrose]

Jeez, I thought my amp was big...I just browsed through some earlier pages in this thread. Those 70s amps are monstrously huge.
 
"This receiver measures 6.75" tall, 21" wide, 14.75" deep and weighs a beefy 43 pounds."
Description of Skylab's Pioneer SX-950.

 

[Zida]

I spent a decent bit of time tonight reading through this entire thread and I'm kind of surprised how little mention there was of Harman Kardon receivers. I thought they were supposed to be of generally good quality.
 
Anyone have anything to say about them? I only just recently started researching vintage receivers and was thinking of picking up an HK 380i I found locally.

 

[wualta]

Skylab's Pioneer is big and beefy partly because it's a receiver. Take out the analog tuner trinkets and you can make the box smaller. Back in the day, it was a truism that a receiver, though convenient and impressive-looking, was really a compromise: a tuner, preamp and amp all shoved into one box vying for space and a slice of the project budget. A separate tuner, amp and preamp would not only allow you to buy 3 separate power supplies-- a good thing, though it sounds redundant-- it would mean that the manufacturers could concentrate on putting better parts in each, since competition wasn't so fierce for separates. The real plus was that with some research and imagination, you could pick your own best tuner, preamp and amp, depending on what was most important to you.
 
After all, if you wanted dizzying power like 85 watts per channel plus a topnotch tuner plus a knob for every preamp function known to man, all in one box, something had to give somewhere. At least, such was the thinking circa 1977. And, it was going to be BIG.
 
That said, receivers sold in the zillions, so in their long afterlife, they're affordable (mostly), sometimes slap-happily so. Still, if you concentrate on getting a good integrated or power amp, you'll probably get better build quality for roughly the same money, and a smaller cabinet as well. A lotta guys fall in love with the Captain Midnight dashboard look of vintage receivers, but if you can get around that, you can pick and choose your way into a nicely versatile and flexible setup that will serve not only for headphones but for speakers, and without taking up too much space.

 

[Skylab]

No doubt.  The Optonica (high-end Sharp) Integrated I bought, while still being VERY heavy due to the huge transformer, is about half the height of the receivers of the day (late 70's).  And it is astoundingly good as a headphone amp, and I got it for $100.  It's not as cool looking as the vintage receivers (LOL @ "Captain Midnight"), and not necessarily cheaper, but both a but cheaper, and quite possibly a bit better.  I bought all my first stereo gear in the 70's, and as far as HIGH END was concerned, there is no question separates were (and still are!) where it's at.  My first amp was an integrated (1978 Heathkit AA-1219 - still have it).
 
But in the 70's, integrated amps were less common than receivers, and are harder to find.  And further, one of the cool things about some 70's receivers is, in fact, their tuners!  I live in an area with some great radio stations, including a close-by public station that broadcasts 100% Jazz, and has great sound.  So in my case the very high quality tuner section of my Marantz 2275 is a huge plus.  Something to consider.
 
But either way, the headphone performance of the Marantz 2275 and the Optonica integrated are far better than I had expected they would be, and were better with my main headphones than any of the SS dedicated headphone amps I had (which were not super-high end, as all my high end headphone amps were tube). My higher-end tube headphone amps outperform any of the headphone outs of this vintage stuff, IMO, in nuance, if not in total power delivery.  But the point is more about the sometimes slap-happy silly cheapness - and I scored the Optonica super cheap.
 
Oh and for the record, I don't have a Pioneer receiver.  The one I bought was DOA and got trash-heaped.  I have a Sansui 9090, Marantz 2275, and Sony STR-7800SD.

 

[moodyrn]

Skylab how does the vintage receivers you have compare to your fisher?

 

[Skylab]

It's kind of apples and oranges in some ways. The Fisher, which I absolutely adore, is a pretty tubey sounding amp. I like its sound quite a bit, but I know it isn't neutral. What I hear from the Marantz is really very neutral. Same with the Sony, in my limited experience with it, although it doesn't seem to that'd the transparency as the Marantz, and the Marantz is smoother. While neither is at all bright, you're not going to confuse either one with a vintage tube amp like the Fisher.

On the other hand, so far my feeling about the Sansui is that it actually WAS trying to sound like a tube amp. It's very warm and lush, but a little thick sounding.

 

[moodyrn]

That's interesting. With all of the talk about "sansui's are king, and marantz are over-rated" I was set on finding a good deal on a sansui. Now I think I might consider going with something else. I want my solid state amp to be as neutral as possible. If I want a tubey sounding amp, I would go with a tube amp and not a tubey sounding solid state amp. I agree the fisher is a very tubey sounding amp; even for a tube amp. But I still love the way it sounds. With some of the headphones I've tried, it was too tubey sounding. with others, they sounded truly outstanding. I love my d7000s with it, which is a little surprising since they are a touch on the warmer side of neutral.

 

 

[sling5s]

Skylab, how do they compare to dedicated Solid State headphone amps?  I know it's an unfair comparison but lets say Corda Concerto? 

 

[Skylab]

Moodyrn, Totally agree about the Fisher. Sometimes it's just what the doctor ordered - love it with the HD800, for example.

I don't claim to be any sort of expert on this vintage stuff, so you should only take my thoughts as my experience with a few limited samples. But of the ones I got, there is no question the Sansui is voiced warm, and that the Marantz is more neutral. Also note that my Marantz has been recapped, and my Sansui has not (my Fisher was also recapped).

Sling5s, I actually thought the Marantz 2275 sounded better than the Concerto, to the point where I got rid of the Concerto. Anyone who has read my review of the Concerto knows I liked it quite a bit. I liked the Marantz as a headphone amp better. Of course, YMMV.

 

[sling5s]

Wow, I guess I'm not that crazy.  I owned the Marantz and Setton vintage amps and could not understand how they sounded better to my ears, than many Solid Stage dedicated amps but you have just confirmed it thanks.  
There is a tonality to these vintage amps that really sounds right.  Especially with high impedance cans.  When I had the Woo Audio 6, it struggled to drive my old pair of AKG K 240M (600 oms) but the Setton drove them like it was nothing. I regret selling my Marantz.  I hope someday to find one at a thrift store again, maybe a Sansui too. 
 
Thanks again. 
  
 
Quote:

Sling5s, I actually thought the Marantz 2275 sounded better than the Concerto, to the point where I got rid of the Concerto. Anyone who has read my review of the Concerto knows I liked it quite a bit. I liked the Marantz as a headphone amp better. Of course, YMMV.