[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by some1x If you can prove that the Silver Dragon is made with the same formula as Sennheiser HD650 stock cable, I'll admit that the differences I heard between them to be simply placebo effect

I can't prove anything, but will simply submit this for consideration: "Wire is wire." It conducts electricity, and aside from shielding differences (helping eliminate RFI/EMI) I see nothing in electronics or science to explain why one cable would sound "dramatically" different than another.

Given that, would you be willing to call it mysticism? What else could it reasonably be called?

There are cable believers and cable non-believers... fair enough from here, many people believe in God as well and that can't be proven either. I don't much care for it when believers insist theirs is the absolute factual viewpoint and "I challenge you to compare these two high-end cables" blah blah... a similar challenge can be offered by the non-believer side: Do some controlled double-blind comparisons on those same cables and see if you can still tell them apart.

Anyway, it's pointless to continue with this... arspy87 has certainly heard the two viewpoints and can decide for him/herself.

P.S. one question from arspy87 I can answer...
Quote:

Are there also significant differences in the internal resistance of different types of wire?

At audio frequencies and headphone wattage, internal resistance differences should be insignificant. You may get a contradictory opinion tho, seems absolutely nothing is set in stone around here

.

 

[dano1122]

between my zu and stock senn cable the differenct is so minimal as to make me wonder if its not my mood or level of awakeness that is making the difference. add to this the zu cable is stiff and hard to manuever and that it costs 200 bux and change. mmmm, yeah... however, i always suggest everybody to TRY YOURSELF, not everyones ears are the same.

 

[chia-pet]

different cables make headphones sound different. try it before you post.

 

[Capt. Z]

There is a difference in cable.

Difference in material, purity of material, micro-shape of the wire,
There is skin - effects, crosstalk between the wires.
Difference between the affect of the insulating material.

The only way to hear the differences betwen cable is to hear it for yourself.

Some differences are very minute, but very important to the listener, others are drastic differences.

You need to hear, compare and choose.

 

[immtbiker]

The $20/gallon "King's Ransom brand" chocolate ice cream analogy is true. I do service at 4C Foods, and they make bread crumbs and ice tea mix for everyone from the most expensive exotic brands to the cheapest supermarket/Americas Choice brand. It's all the same thing with different labels on it.
Cables however, are passionately configured by a large variety of manufacturers, questing to achieve their best possible sound, in a given price range.

 

[plainsong]

As Jahn's custom title says, who doesn't like a good ice cream analogy?

Seriously though, placebo arguements aside - It just comes down to this simple fact. I've been able to trust my ears ever since I first picked up a clarinet and joined my first choir. My ears have never let me down. It's that simple. I have no reason to distrust my ears, so no forum know-it-all is going to tell me what I am or am not hearing.

You can trust your senses.

 

[morphine]

Actually I think some of this debate could be split into two separate areas of thought.

For instance, I definitely hear a difference between the stock 650 cable and my Silver Dragons. If I were to do some kind of blind test I know I would tell you that the cables still sound different. Yes, the difference is that substantial to my ears.

Now, given that..... in the same test if you told me to tell you which one was BETTER sounding I may only pick the SDs 7 out of 10 times. Better sounding is so subjective imo and can vary so much depending on music.
Obviously if I could see the cables I'd say the SDs were better sounding 10/10 times.. I mean hell I paid a bunch for them.

The same goes for Bodgan Silver Spirit ICs.. the difference is not as large as for the senn replacement cables, but still definitely present. The second part also applies.

m

 

[morphine]

btw Plainsong, that's a great shot of Vivi

 

[plainsong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphine btw Plainsong, that's a great shot of Vivi

I actually have a little Vivi figure sitting right here. Who doesn't like Vivi?

Yeah, I agree with your arguement. Better is a different subject. But difference? Of course.

 

[Oski]

I wonder why the “objectivists” always insist on elaborate double-blind tests when they can much more easily get a pair of cables and listen for themselves? If it’s the placebo effect they blame it on, why don’t these same people conduct DBTs when they choose other equipment, say an amp or set of headphones…since they so strongly believe the perception of sound is easily influenced by the perceived quality (aesthetic, cost, or reputation)? I can only assume this would also prejudice them towards other equipment as well.

While I believe the differences in cables can be heard and even pass a perfectly executed DBT, even if it actually comes down to placebo effect, do doctors not actively prescribe placebos to patients and do placebos not actually cure people? If psychosomatic effects can bring about actual results (in this case better enjoyment of music and equipment) isn't it a good thing nontheless? Musical enjoyment is derived from sensory perception which is rooted in the “subjective” mind. If the objectivists want to quantify everything they hear, they can plot the music, measure the SPL, and graph the equipment response all they want.

 

[Akuan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oski While I believe in the differences in cables can be heard and even pass a perfectly executed DBT, even if it comes down to placebo effects, do doctors not actively prescribe placebos to patients and do placebos not actually cure people?

I have not seen any DBT test on cables with electrical parameters known not to cause audible difference that have proven otherwise.
I've spent at least $1500 on speaker and interconnect cables that I firmly believe now that I could have spent about $300 to achieve the same.
I still buy fancy cables for durability and aesthetic reason only.
I have read countless of DBT tests with same conclusion as this one http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...s-12-2004.html
What is so interesting is that those who claimed having golden ears almost always do worse than the average listener. They clearly were not using their ears.

 

[ILikeMusic]

Another interesting link...

http://www.pcavtech.com/abx/abx_wire.htm

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong I have no reason to distrust my ears, so no forum know-it-all is going to tell me what I am or am not hearing. You can trust your senses.

Which side of the question do you lean towards...they do, or don't make a difference?
Also, I hope I am not the "forum know it all", that you are refering to.

This is the first topic that I have so strongly expressed my beliefs.

 

[eastside504]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akuan I have not seen any DBT test on cables with electrical parameters known not to cause audible difference that have proven otherwise. I've spent at least $1500 on speaker and interconnect cables that I firmly believe now that I could have spent about $300 to achieve the same. I still buy fancy cables for durability and aesthetic reason only. I have read countless of DBT tests with same conclusion as this one http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...s-12-2004.html What is so interesting is that those who claimed having golden ears almost always do worse than the average listener. They clearly were not using their ears.

First post that claim not to hear a different that has weight becuase he has tired different cables.
Remember that everyone's hearing is different and so some will hear a difference while others wont. Some can hear the difference between the 580 and 600, others cant. Some can hear a difference between opamps (627 and 637) while others cant. Some can hear difference with burnin others cant. Does that mean that the difference dont exist? No, its just that difference people will hear differently. I just like for all the naysayers to go and at least try before forming an opinion. Trust your ears, but remember just becuase you dont hear it doesnt mean others cant hear it also. They are not crazy or idiots becuase they hear something that you cant.

 

[plainsong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by immtbiker Which side of the question do you lean towards...they do, or don't make a difference? Also, I hope I am not the "forum know it all", that you are refering to. This is the first topic that I have so strongly expressed my beliefs.

I'm on the side of the arguement that cables do change sound. Whether it's for the better or worse just depends on what you prefer.

No, you weren't the forum know-it-all. I ment that in the generic sense of the word. Ya know the person who breezes in and proclaims that you didn't hear what you're sitting there hearing at the time he says it.