[yangian]

My current points of reference include the HD800S, and for multi BA, the 64Audio U10 and LZ Big Dipper.

IMHO BA only can definitely deliver orchestral and symphonic well. I thinks it’s just your preference (as it is mine). But saying these are no good for orchestral pieces is not accurate, unless you add the words “for my personal preference”

How many really good BA based IEMs have you heard to base your opinions on regarding BAs vs hybrid or DD? Even the single driver BA Campfire Orion is remarkably good (IMHO of course) with Classical music.

The B400 is not expansive - few IEMs are. And that includes DD. If you prefer a touch of brightness, these probably won’t suit you. For those who like a mellower sound and enjoy Classical music though - nice combo.

You are right, it's IMHO.
No, I have little experience of BAs, especially multi BAs, only B400. I also have and had a few single BA and hybrid, and I actually like B400 most among them. My reference is HD600 and I extensively listen to IE800, IE80, KEF M200. If you had opportunity to listen to any of them and compare with B400, you'll be able to understand what did I mean. Yes, it could be totally personal preference. As I said, to my ears, B400 sounds unnatural, stiff, lack emotion, lack overtone, all problems of BA drivers. However, I like B400's fuller and warmer sound. It sounds much better than B100, which is too dry and lack flesh. Sometime, B400 sounds weird (It's hard to me to describe in language), which I didn't notice on B100. I suppose it's a problem of transition among different drivers.

I don't think it's a problem of B400. On the contrary, I like B400 most among all the BA and hybrid type IEMs. I'm quite sure it's problems of BA type driver. I think BAs are not my taste. By the way, do you know why Senn. and HFMan never make BAs products? I remember I saw Axel (?) the designer of HD800 once said, BAs are for hearing-aids, they are not for headphones!

 

[phthora]

You are right, it's IMHO.
No, I have little experience of BAs, especially multi BAs, only B400. I also have and had a few single BA and hybrid, and I actually like B400 most among them. My reference is HD600 and I extensively listen to IE800, IE80, KEF M200. If you had opportunity to listen to any of them and compare with B400, you'll be able to understand what did I mean. Yes, it could be totally personal preference. As I said, to my ears, B400 sounds unnatural, stiff, lack emotion, lack overtone, all problems of BA drivers. However, I like B400's fuller and warmer sound. It sounds much better than B100, which is too dry and lack flesh. Sometime, B400 sounds weird (It's hard to me to describe in language), which I didn't notice on B100. I suppose it's a problem of transition among different drivers.

I don't think it's a problem of B400. On the contrary, I like B400 most among all the BA and hybrid type IEMs. I'm quite sure it's problems of BA type driver. I think BAs are not my taste. By the way, do you know why Senn. and HFMan never make BAs products? I remember I saw Axel (?) the designer of HD800 once said, BAs are for hearing-aids, they are not for headphones!

I just don't understand why you think it's a problem with BA drivers generally. You seem to be discounting an entire technology based upon your opinions of only a few examples. But, perhaps, I am misinterpreting what you're saying here. Are you suggesting that balanced armatures have some fundamental design limitation by virtue of the technology, or are you talking about a general trend among balanced armatures due to some other reason, such as their tuning or the way they are applied? Also, could you explain what you mean by "unnatural, stiff, lack emotion, lack overtone"?

 

[Lurk650]

As B9Scrambler has said before, he only uses stock tips. I had been using various tips. Went back to stock tips and found they brought back bass that I was apparently losing even with a good seal causing them to come off very bass light. Very interesting.

 

[yangian]

I just don't understand why you think it's a problem with BA drivers generally. You seem to be discounting an entire technology based upon your opinions of only a few examples. But, perhaps, I am misinterpreting what you're saying here. Are you suggesting that balanced armatures have some fundamental design limitation by virtue of the technology, or are you talking about a general trend among balanced armatures due to some other reason, such as their tuning or the way they are applied? Also, could you explain what you mean by "unnatural, stiff, lack emotion, lack overtone"?

Those terms are what I heard. Of course, that's only my opinion.
Yes, BAs are wrong track of earphone industry. That's not my conclusion. I saw not few people complain, especially Axel's words!! I just confirm it by my own experience. Anyway, this is my personal opinions, maybe with minority.

 

[stenog]

You are right, it's IMHO.
No, I have little experience of BAs, especially multi BAs, only B400. I also have and had a few single BA and hybrid, and I actually like B400 most among them. My reference is HD600 and I extensively listen to IE800, IE80, KEF M200. If you had opportunity to listen to any of them and compare with B400, you'll be able to understand what did I mean. Yes, it could be totally personal preference. As I said, to my ears, B400 sounds unnatural, stiff, lack emotion, lack overtone, all problems of BA drivers. However, I like B400's fuller and warmer sound. It sounds much better than B100, which is too dry and lack flesh. Sometime, B400 sounds weird (It's hard to me to describe in language), which I didn't notice on B100. I suppose it's a problem of transition among different drivers.

I don't think it's a problem of B400. On the contrary, I like B400 most among all the BA and hybrid type IEMs. I'm quite sure it's problems of BA type driver. I think BAs are not my taste. By the way, do you know why Senn. and HFMan never make BAs products? I remember I saw Axel (?) the designer of HD800 once said, BAs are for hearing-aids, they are not for headphones!

As you write we all have different preferences and hear things different!!

I think you should read this review
http://theheadphonelist.com/introducing-empire-ears-new-flagships-the-phantom-and-legend-x/

And read this thread
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ran...ut-introduction-and-reviews-on-page-1.826876/

Maybe the B400 is just not for you.

 

[yangian]

As you write we all have different preferences and hear things different!!

I think you should read this review
http://theheadphonelist.com/introducing-empire-ears-new-flagships-the-phantom-and-legend-x/

And read this thread
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ran...ut-introduction-and-reviews-on-page-1.826876/

Maybe the B400 is just not for you.

I know the joker's website. However most people just listen to some pop vocal music, which BA can do it well. But few people seriously do comparisons with DD type based on large work classical music. As I said, I Iike B400 more than any BA and hybrid type IEMs that I heard. But I still cannot appreciate its sound as compared with my good DD IEMs. Next time when I get opportunity, I'll listen to more BA IEMs to see if I can change my mind.

 

[yangian]

Ok, here is it: https://gizmodo.com/5949316/ask-one-of-the-worlds-top-headphone-engineers-whatever-you-want

Ask: In the in-ear headphone space, Sennheiser seems to be committed to utilizing dynamic transducers, while a majority of your competitors use balanced armature (BA) drivers or even a hybrid design utilizing both dynamic drivers and BA. What is Sennheiser's stance on BA drivers, the use of multiple drivers, and what do you feel are the advantages and disadvantages of these technologies?
Axel: Balanced armature drivers were originally developed as small, high efficiency narrow band transducers for hearing aids. There undistorted maximum SPL is limited. you have to use several of them for a good wideband sound reproduction. Multiway systems have the disadvantage of time differences between the signals from the different drivers (a well known problem with loudspeakers). A single, well engineered dynamic driver can do it better: Better wide band reproduction, no phase distortion, higher undistorted SPL and better wearing comfort, due to its smaller size.

 

[phthora]

Interesting that this interview was from 2012, before the advent of phase coherent multi-BA IEMs, with the Primo8 and JH Audio's FreqPhase taking the lead. Now, those timing and phase issues can be resolved. In fact, Jerry Harvey prefers the quad-BA set-up over anything else.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/interview-jerry-harvey-jh-audio/

 

[yangian]

Interesting that this interview was from 2012, before the advent of phase coherent multi-BA IEMs, with the Primo8 and JH Audio's FreqPhase taking the lead. Now, those timing and phase issues can be resolved. In fact, Jerry Harvey prefers the quad-BA set-up over anything else.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/interview-jerry-harvey-jh-audio/

This is a great news. I'll try to find an opportunity to listen to their products. On the other hand, his preference of music genre are "Old school classic rock, Motown, hard rock, and some country." No classical.

 

[phthora]

This is a great news. I'll try to find an opportunity to listen to their products. On the other hand, his preference of music genre are "Old school classic rock, Motown, hard rock, and some country." No classical.

That's fair. A quad-BA that may suit classical better (since the JH13 is a bit too bassy, IMO) would be the Empire Ears Spartan IV. PinkyPowers has an excellent review of them. Long story short: they are very neutral and resolving.

 

[Raketen]

Surprising that a designer from a company that produces dynamic drivers prefers dynamic drivers, and a designer from a company that makes 95% ba-only headphones prefers BA drivers!
I wonder what kind of headphones a Banana farmer prefers?

 

[Brooko]

You are right, it's IMHO.
No, I have little experience of BAs, especially multi BAs, only B400.

This is the bit I can’t get. You write off BA based IEMs yet the only one you’ve heard is the B400. You also quote Axel Grell - yet he was talking about distortion at maximum SPL. Who listens at maximum SPL?

You really need to actually listen to some BA based earphones before writing them off

 

[yangian]

This is the bit I can’t get. You write off BA based IEMs yet the only one you’ve heard is the B400. You also quote Axel Grell - yet he was talking about distortion at maximum SPL. Who listens at maximum SPL?

You really need to actually listen to some BA based earphones before writing them off

Fair enough. But I did have and had 3 single BAs and 3 hybrid, all not good to my ears. B400 is the one I like the most. So if you know, just reply me: why Senn. and HFMan never make BAs staff?
Moreover, I do like vocal from BAs. However, not large work orchestra, which I listen to EVERY day.

 

[phthora]

Surprising that a designer from a company that produces dynamic drivers prefers dynamic drivers, and a designer from a company that makes 95% ba-only headphones prefers BA drivers!
I wonder what kind of headphones a Banana farmer prefers?

The larger point was that phase coherence in multi-BA set-ups is now very possible, though it wasn't when Axel did his interview. The secondary point was that quad-BA's, as in exactly four balanced drivers, was the preference of a guy who makes everything from single BA set-ups to 8 drivers per side to hybrids. In both cases, I'm trying to defend the design choices that Brainwavz has made.

 

[yangian]

The larger point was that phase coherence in multi-BA set-ups is now very possible, though it wasn't when Axel did his interview. The secondary point was that quad-BA's, as in exactly four balanced drivers, was the preference of a guy who makes everything from single BA set-ups to 8 drivers per side to hybrids. In both cases, I'm trying to defend the design choices that Brainwavz has made.

We, laymen definitely would not know the whole story. Anyway, I believe if there are no BAs staff, the price of the IEMs will be brought down. BA type are so much uneconomical. What multi BAs can do can equally or better done by a single DD. So those so-called high end single DD products set their price tag to the similar BA type staff. Consider how much manufacture cost of a single DD?! Why they can sell so expensive??? Because of those multi BAs products!!! I hope BA IEMs could disappear on earth.