[jthomp72]

This is completely not what I'm talking about in my previous post. And I don't really speaking of correct or incorrect frequency response comparing PX8 and Bathys (or 5909 or other headphones). I speaking too of my preference, for example that PX8's lacking sub-bass or having more mid-bass or little less treble, or more big soundstage in Bathys, or more clean or less clean sound, etc. making the Bathys (and 5909) MY preference.

If you like the PX8 and is making you happy a lot, this is fantastic. Some people maybe thinking that the very more cheap Sony XM3, with clearly better ANC, more big bass and more portability is many better than all this expensive headphones.

Many people that visiting this threads are looking for so much as is possible comparisons that helping in making a decision because many people can't just ordering and returning easily if not happy with the sound. Just saying "this is musical, great, the best, classy, forget the rest, and posting constantly this same view, isn't helping a lot of people and is belong like PX8 fan club.

And about liking one headphone a lot. If you go without listening headphones for one week, any earphone or headphone will sounding fantastic. So many variables about why people saying this is great and not great, and why some people posting a lot and some people posting very little.

The advantage of graphs (not only frequency response graphs) is that they helping people understanding better how one headphone is sounding, and this isn't meaning that a good graph will making you or others people happy. For me a FR graph (and others graphs) are helping understanding better a headphone, I headphone I like or don't like. Many people don't know how interpreting a graph and quickly saying "I don't care about graphs). I repeat, when people CAN'T testing headphones in shop or easily buying and returning free, more objective comments are very helpful. And this is too why some reviewers like Tyll in the past having the many years excellent reputation they having.



Yes, my test with PX8 is only with audio notes app in iOS (only with Bathys I having 2 telephone calls too). Can't testing tomorrow again because I'm sending back PX8 tomorrow morning, but is good you doing this different tests. I even explaining to b&w that I'm in shock how very terrible the microphone is and that if one person of support wanting speaking with me, no probem.

Do you doing test with transparency that we speaking about before? Here you will agreeing that Bathys having better transparency except if your preference is for less volume than normal (meaning not headphone in you head) when using this mode. For me transparency MUST having at least the same volume or only little more than normal (like Bathys and APP 2) for considering this is good /very good. ML 5909 is similar like PX8, meaning not really great for me in this mode.



You completely don't understand my posts or are interpreting wrong. Read my reply above to jthomp72.

This is my last comments about this topic of graphs necessary or not or about what people preferring or not in sound.

Yeah APP2 has crazy good ANC/transparency. Too bad they’re uh…not fantastic sounding.

I suppose just like I am entitled to my opinion you are entitled to yours… I just don’t think calling these headphones bad in any one area does them justice anymore than me calling the Bathys bad does any good either. Both are great but different great. Preference is one thing but they are objectively both great.

Honestly, objectively, though we can both agree that the Px8 is the better build quality by a mile.

 

[vincenz]

Don't forget the P5... oh how I loath the P5! You're right though, had I not read that B&W addressed some of the comfort issues of the PX7 with the S2 variant and by extension admitted there were comfort issues... I probably wouldn't have given the PX8 a shot.

What was so bad about them for you? Knock it all you want, but the P5 are the pair of headphones that got me into B&W in the first place

I had gotten a pair of Bose in ears years ago as a gift and I spent less than a day with them to realize how not good they were and exchanged them for a pair of P5. They are heavy on the bass for the size, and that may or may not be good depending on your preference, and they don't hold a candle to their bigger siblings, but they are actually balanced enough for fun listening and still retain the B&W sound.

 

[angelom]

Yeah APP2 has crazy good ANC/transparency. Too bad they’re uh…not fantastic sounding.

For you APP 2 isn't great in sound. For me the sound is excellent.

I suppose just like I am entitled to my opinion you are entitled to yours… I just don’t think calling these headphones bad in any one area does them justice anymore than me calling the Bathys bad does any good either. Both are great but different great. Preference is one thing but they are objectively both great.

Yes, everybody is having right for having opinion, true. But some opinions have more weight or are more useful than others for others people, specially when this opinions are having better foundation.

Honestly, objectively, though we can both agree that the Px8 is the better build quality by a mile.

I'm sorry but I'm not agree here either. I saying already 2 or 3 days ago that in appearance the PX8 is looking like having better construction but I think that is clear that when inspecting more closely the 2 headphones, the Bathys actually is better in construction, more solid and robust.

 

[MisterEwing]

What was so bad about them for you? Knock it all you want, but the P5 are the pair of headphones that got me into B&W in the first place

I had gotten a pair of Bose in ears years ago as a gift and I spent less than a day with them to realize how not good they were and exchanged them for a pair of P5. They are heavy on the bass for the size, and that may or may not be good depending on your preference, and they don't hold a candle to their bigger siblings, but they are actually balanced enough for fun listening and still retain the B&W sound.

It’s been a very long time since I listened to a pair of P5s but I just remember them being overly warm and congested. I’ve learned over the years that I tend to prefer sharpness to natural timbre. I blame the SR60s I bought in high school and listened to for probably 1000+ hours through college. Funny thing is, I tried a pair of SR325es a couple years back and hated them so who knows… maybe my tastes have shifted once again! Damn now I have to track down a P5!

 

[vincenz]

This is completely not what I'm talking about in my previous post. And I don't really speaking of correct or incorrect frequency response comparing PX8 and Bathys (or 5909 or other headphones). I speaking too of my preference, for example that PX8's lacking sub-bass or having more mid-bass or little less treble, or more big soundstage in Bathys, or more clean or less clean sound, etc. making the Bathys (and 5909) MY preference.

If you like the PX8 and is making you happy a lot, this is fantastic. Some people maybe thinking that the very more cheap Sony XM3, with clearly better ANC, more big bass and more portability is many better than all this expensive headphones.

Many people that visiting this threads are looking for so much as is possible comparisons that helping in making a decision because many people can't just ordering and returning easily if not happy with the sound. Just saying "this is musical, great, the best, classy, forget the rest, and posting constantly this same view, isn't helping a lot of people and is becoming like PX8 fan club.

And about liking one headphone a lot. If you go without listening headphones for one week, any earphone or headphone will sounding fantastic. So many variables about why people saying this is great and not great, and why some people posting a lot and some people posting very little.

The advantage of graphs (not only frequency response graphs) is that they helping people understanding better how one headphone is sounding, and this isn't meaning that a good graph will making you or others people happy. For me a FR graph (and others graphs) are helping understanding better a headphone, I headphone I like or don't like. Many people don't know how interpreting a graph and quickly saying "I don't care about graphs). I repeat, when people CAN'T testing headphones in shop or easily buying and returning free, more objective comments are very helpful. And this is too why some reviewers like Tyll in the past having the many years excellent reputation they having.



Yes, my test with PX8 is only with audio notes app in iOS (only with Bathys I having 2 telephone calls too). Can't testing tomorrow again because I'm sending back PX8 tomorrow morning, but is good you doing this different tests. I even explaining to b&w that I'm in shock how very terrible the microphone is and that if one person of support wanting speaking with me, no probem.

Do you doing test with transparency that we speaking about before? Here you will agreeing that Bathys having better transparency except if your preference is for less volume than normal (meaning not headphone in you head) when using this mode. For me transparency MUST having at least the same volume or only little more than normal (like Bathys and APP 2) for considering this is good /very good. ML 5909 is similar like PX8, meaning not really great for me in this mode.



You completely don't understand my posts or are interpreting wrong. Read my reply above to jthomp72.

This is my last comments about this topic of graphs necessary or not or about what people preferring or not in sound.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. You're saying your point is not about measurements or graphs, but you also say that you look at graphs to see how well headphones conform to your preferences or version of ideal.

You also go on to point out that impressions that people have given in this thread about the Px8 are lacking in what you deem as objective points. In fact, there has been plenty of detailed words used in this thread to describe the sound signature, the very thing you believe is lacking. Perhaps you just have not read them. If on the other hand you need graphs for more objectivity, that is your preference and as I stated, it is not a necessity nor is it always accurate or appropriate. Please correct if this is not the version of objectivity that you desire, and if so, state what is that you are looking for that is not present in previous impressions.

 

[vincenz]

For you APP 2 isn't great in sound. For me the sound is excellent.



Yes, everybody is having right for having opinion, true. But some opinions have more weight or are more useful than others for others people, specially when this opinions are having better foundation.



I'm sorry but I'm not agree here either. I saying already 2 or 3 days ago that in appearance the PX8 is looking like having better construction but I think that is clear that when inspecting more closely the 2 headphones, the Bathys actually is better in construction, more solid and robust.

I have never found a pair of in-ears to sound better than large over-ear headphones. I do not think the APP 2 would buck that trend. You cannot fight physics and displacement. It is the same with light and cameras.

I think it also is quite arrogant and frankly, obnoxious, to assume that certain opinions have more "weight" or "foundation" just because they conform to your biases. Doubly so when there's no evidence or examples to support your arguments nor methodology to define the objectivity you seek and strive to suggest defines "good" or "better."

 

[jthomp72]

For you APP 2 isn't great in sound. For me the sound is excellent.



Yes, everybody is having right for having opinion, true. But some opinions have more weight or are more useful than others for others people, specially when this opinions are having better foundation.



I'm sorry but I'm not agree here either. I saying already 2 or 3 days ago that in appearance the PX8 is looking like having better construction but I think that is clear that when inspecting more closely the 2 headphones, the Bathys actually is better in construction, more solid and robust.

Absolutely not. The bathys are an inferior headphone in terms of construction.

You’re telling me that a headphone with a thinner headband, fake leather, and plastic pieces is superior to a headphone with a thick headband, Napa leather, and cast aluminum? There’s literally 0 objective way that’s true and every single review agrees with me.

 

[jthomp72]

You seem to be contradicting yourself. You're saying your point is not about measurements or graphs, but you also say that you look at graphs to see how well headphones conform to your preferences or version of ideal.

You also go on to point out that impressions that people have given in this thread about the Px8 are lacking in what you deem as objective points. In fact, there has been plenty of detailed words used in this thread to describe the sound signature, the very thing you believe is lacking. Perhaps you just have not read them. If on the other hand you need graphs for more objectivity, that is your preference and as I stated, it is not a necessity nor is it always accurate or appropriate. Please correct if this is not the version of objectivity that you desire, and if so, state what is that you are looking for that is not present in previous impressions.

This actually gets to the heart of my point I believe… I don’t think there is an ideal. I think there are measures of objectively good sound quality, but within the range of good sound quality, there are different, sound signatures, and none of the different sound signatures if high-quality and made with audiophile grade components with high end materials is wrong.

There’s no way you can say the bathys is a more correct headphone than the Px8. Or ML5909. Or APM. All of them are very high end headphones that are a step above the typical Sony or Bose. All have very different sounds. All are good choices based on your preferences. Liking a bass extension or sparkly treble doesn’t make you have inferior ears to someone who likes a completely neutral sound.

 

[vincenz]

This actually gets to the heart of my point I believe… I don’t think there is an ideal. I think there are measures of objectively good sound quality, but within the range of good sound quality, there are different, sound signatures, and none of the different sound signatures if high-quality is made with hair and made with high end materials is wrong.

There’s no way you can say the bathys is a more correct headphone than the Px8. Or ML5909. Or APM. All of them are very high end headphones that are a step above the typical Sony or Bose. All have very different sounds. All are good choices based on your preferences. Liking a bass extension or sparkly treble doesn’t make you have inferior ears to someone who likes a completely neutral sound.

Yes, I agree, but I get the feeling that he is pushing his preferences to say it is "better" vis-a-vis enabled through some kind of "criticality" that only holds up through some headphones and not others. Then doubling down on that agenda by insinuating that this kind of objectivity is only possible by people owning a specific type of headphones or ones at a certain price point.

Absolutely not. The bathys are an inferior headphone in terms of construction.

You’re telling me that a headphone with a thinner headband, fake leather, and plastic pieces is superior to a headphone with a thick headband, Napa leather, and cast aluminum? There’s literally 0 objective way that’s true and every single review agrees with me.

Wait wait! What if I objectively like a thinner headband, fake leather, and plastic?

 

[jthomp72]

Yes, I agree, but I get the feeling that he is pushing his preferences to say it is "better" vis-a-vis enabled through some kind of "criticality" that only holds up through some headphones and not others. Then doubling down on that agenda by insinuating that this kind of objectivity is only possible by people owning a specific type of headphones or ones at a certain price point.


Wait wait! What if I objectively like a thinner headband, fake leather, and plastic?

You might be attracted to a Kardashian then…seek help lol

 

[35FLE]

Its a hobby, not everyone has like with you like.

 

[angelom]

You seem to be contradicting yourself. You're saying your point is not about measurements or graphs, but you also say that you look at graphs to see how well headphones conform to your preferences or version of ideal.

You also go on to point out that impressions that people have given in this thread about the Px8 are lacking in what you deem as objective points. In fact, there has been plenty of detailed words used in this thread to describe the sound signature, the very thing you believe is lacking. Perhaps you just have not read them. If on the other hand you need graphs for more objectivity, that is your preference and as I stated, it is not a necessity nor is it always accurate or appropriate. Please correct if this is not the version of objectivity that you desire, and if so, state what is that you are looking for that is not present in previous impressions.

I have never found a pair of in-ears to sound better than large over-ear headphones. I do not think the APP 2 would buck that trend. You cannot fight physics and displacement. It is the same with light and cameras.

I think it also is quite arrogant and frankly, obnoxious, to assume that certain opinions have more "weight" or "foundation" just because they conform to your biases. Doubly so when there's no evidence or examples to support your arguments nor methodology to define the objectivity you seek and strive to suggest defines "good" or "better."

I think I saying enough about this topics already and explaining well, and I think you're not really fully understanding or reading correctly what I'm saying and/or interpreting some of my comments. I'm sorry if I don't give you long reply because I really think you don't want seeing more far than what you want seeing already.

Absolutely not. The bathys are an inferior headphone in terms of construction.

You’re telling me that a headphone with a thinner headband, fake leather, and plastic pieces is superior to a headphone with a thick headband, Napa leather, and cast aluminum? There’s literally 0 objective way that’s true and every single review agrees with me.

Ok, if you say this true, ok. But is true for you and not for me.

A more thin headband isn't better or more bad than one headphone with more thick headband necessarily. Bathys, too, is using leather (in the top part) in the headband, by the way, and, if I'm correct, in the earpads too. My ears always having BIG problem with fake leather in earpads, this is one reason I don't liking many headphones, because my ears beconing hot and sweating quickly. Not yet with Bathys.

Maybe you insisting and aren't agree, but I think that inspecting more closely the Bathys and PX8 (and I saying 3 times now), the Bathys is more solid and robust. This is actually similar with 5909, where some people thinking that 5909 isn't having very, very good construction and is little plasticky. In fact the 5909 maybe (only maybe) having actually better construction than Bathys when inspecting carefully and correctly (is less plastic, for example, than people thinking).

And, when one headphone or object is using plastic, and not aluminium, by the way, is important knowing that is differences in aluminium quality AND in plastic quality too.

 

[jthomp72]

I think I saying enough about this topics already and explaining well, and I think you're not really fully understanding or reading correctly what I'm saying and/or interpreting some of my comments. I'm sorry if I don't give you long reply because I really think you don't want seeing more far than what you want seeing already.



Ok, if you say this true, ok. But is for your dn not for me.

A more thin headband isn't better or more bad than one headphone with more thick headband necessarily. Bathys, too, is using leather (in the top part) in the headband, by the way, and, if I'm correct, in the earpads too. My ears always having BIG problem with fake leather in earcups, this is one reason I don't liking many headphones, because my ears beconing hot and sweating quickly. Not yet with Bathys.

Maybe you insisting and aren't agree, but I think that inspecting more closely the Bathys and PX8 (and I saying 3 times now), the Bathys is more solid and robust. This is actually similar with 5909, where some people thinking that 5909 isn't having very, very good construction and is little plasticky. In fact the 5909 maybe (only maybe) having actually better construction than Bathys when inspecting carefully and correctly (is less plastic, for example, than people thinking).

And, when one headphone or object is using plastic, and not aluminium, by the way, is important knowing that is differences in aluminium quality AND in plastic quality too.

There is not an argument you can make that would convince me that plastic is more durable and high-end than cast aluminum… I just don’t know where that comes from?

I understand your argument about sound quality and you liking the sound that you like even though I disagree with your assertion that critical listening and liking a neutral sound signature, as well as spending thousands of dollars on certain brands and certain audiophile niches makes you more qualified than someone else to speak on the subject but that’s fine. I just think at the end of the day… There are no correct answers when it comes to best in terms of sound quality. I prefer the Px8. You don’t because you think in your mind anything that is tuned for non-critical listening is inferior, which I will point out. You are not the only person I have seen with this opinion… It seems to be an oddly commonly held opinion among the audiophile community and I don’t like it.

 

[vincenz]

I think I saying enough about this topics already and explaining well, and I think you're not really fully understanding or reading correctly what I'm saying and/or interpreting some of my comments. I'm sorry if I don't give you long reply because I really think you don't want seeing more far than what you want seeing already.

I just think you’re not able to support what you’re stating is all, and that’s fine if you want to leave it at that— the record stands for itself as it is. But if you like the Focal more, that’s fine too as you are entitled to, so maybe your time and energy is better spent in the Bathys thread instead of trolling here— objectively speaking.

 

[angelom]

There is not an argument you can make that would convince me that plastic is more durable and high-end than cast aluminum… I just don’t know where that comes from?

I understand your argument about sound quality and you liking the sound that you like even though I disagree with your assertion that critical listening and liking a neutral sound signature, as well as spending thousands of dollars on certain brands and certain audiophile niches makes you more qualified than someone else to speak on the subject but that’s fine. I just think at the end of the day… There are no correct answers when it comes to best in terms of sound quality. I prefer the Px8. You don’t because you think in your mind anything that is tuned for non-critical listening is inferior, which I will point out. You are not the only person I have seen with this opinion… It seems to be an oddly commonly held opinion among the audiophile community and I don’t like it.

I'm not saying more about construction, I saying enough. Sorry.

About sound and graphs, you're not understanding all aspects I'm speaking about. But again, this is enough, I think I explaining correctly for the people that reading my posts not so quickly or with preconception of what I'm saying/thinking.

I just think you’re not able to support what you’re stating is all, and that’s fine if you want to leave it at that— the record stands for itself as it is. But if you like the Focal more, that’s fine too as you are entitled to, so maybe your time and energy is better spent in the Bathys thread instead of trolling here— objectively speaking.

So now in your opinion I'm trolling and you wanting me going away. This is childish response. Maybe is better for you ignoring my posts completely.