[Liberte]

How important is an amp for the DT1990?

I find they sound great out of dongles, a bit better out of a Mojo and not sure they will scale anymore with something better?

 

[Opalius]

Agreed, and it can also add a bit more dynamics if the current amp / combo unit you're using doesn't push it enough. I found this out with my DT-770s (250 ohm) as well, but it applies to the DT-1990s too.

I very tempted to ask, what people mean when someone says "doesn't push it enough"?

Are we talking that the does not that enough volts? Watts? Current? Ohms law?

I have not been able to hear any difference between amps whe they have more the 2 volts. - but that's just me

Tube amps on the other hand, are a different story with what they do to harmonics in sound DT1990 takes tubes very well..

 

[trickyRoadsDummyTOOL]

I very tempted to ask, what people mean when someone says "doesn't push it enough"?

Are we talking that the does not that enough volts? Watts? Current? Ohms law?

I have not been able to hear any difference between amps whe they have more the 2 volts. - but that's just me

Tube amps on the other hand, are a different story with what they do to harmonics in sound DT1990 takes tubes very well..

Dear pre-posters,re

I only can comment on my own gear, and my own listening-experience. I did not try any other than headphones. Neither can I comment on using >2V nor on differences between tube amplifier and hybrid and non-tube.

I have to look up which output voltage my streamerdac provides for my headphones, and it imho depends on the ohm value of your headphones, but the simplest term I read somewhere is, that a certain amount of amplification voltage increases normally the control over the headphone drivers.

I didn't test the mojo, but his basis of a good sound seems to be being him very good dac add to a certain amount a search amount of amplification/power.

In the end you should judge trusting your own listening experience, but I can confirm what Glenn Appleton says referring to the 1990s and what I posted above.

In the end the headphone output of my streamerdac maybe the weak point producing this differences between this single device and adding a dedicated headphone amplifier.

To sum it up: streamerdac's Headphone output sounds well, inserting a dedicated headphone amplifier leads to increased punch and clarity/refinement or let's say micro dynamics in bass with my 1990s.

 

[GlenAppleton]

I very tempted to ask, what people mean when someone says "doesn't push it enough"?

As it pertains to headphones, the measurement is often mW (milliwatts) at specific resistance levels (ohms). The measured mW output @ 250 oms might work fine and adequately drive these headphones at listenable levels, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they're being driven to full potential. More power, within the operational power range, provides more control and dynamics as the driver reacts to the electronic signal.

Some combo units may have the required output power to drive these to potential, while others may not. In my case, the iFi ZEN DAC v2 onboard amp didn't quite push my DT-770s when I got them, so I picked up the ZEN CAN to supplement and it made a significant difference. And the 1990s are more efficient than the 770s, but they still seem to reach potential better with my stack vs. just using the DAC (combo).

I hope this answers your question.

 

[Opalius]

As it pertains to headphones, the measurement is often mW (milliwatts) at specific resistance levels (ohms). The measured mW output @ 250 oms might work fine and adequately drive these headphones at listenable levels, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they're being driven to full potential. More power, within the operational power range, provides more control and dynamics as the driver reacts to the electronic signal.

Some combo units may have the required output power to drive these to potential, while others may not. In my case, the iFi ZEN DAC v2 onboard amp didn't quite push my DT-770s when I got them, so I picked up the ZEN CAN to supplement and it made a significant difference. And the 1990s are more efficient than the 770s, but they still seem to reach potential better with my stack vs. just using the DAC (combo).

I hope this answers your question.

Yes, the question is answered very well, - thank you.

Gives some thoughts about my DT770.

 

[Exekuhtor]

This was by far the hardest comparison so far, but it was goddamn enjoyable!

Beyerdynamic DT1990 versus Denon AH-D9200

DT1990 with analytical pads on my Feliks Echo MKII with upgraded tubes, AH-D9200 on my Ferrum (unbalanced, it needs NO power whatsoever and in my opinion doesn't benefit from tubes AT ALL, it looses a bit of dynamics). Also because i can swap very quickly which was necessary.

The Denon is a bit less bright than the DT1990. It's still a bright headphone but that's probably the first difference that you notice.
The Denon is WAY more natural. The DT1990 sounds artificial in some cases. After hearing the Denon for a while and swapping to the Beyer, the DT1990 feels a bit too bright, like the brightness gets in the way of the natural timbre and overall sound quality, the Denon is perfect (for me, i LOVE the Hifiman open and airy sound signature).
The leap in details is not huge, the clarity of the Beyer is already very high. It's just that the Denon delivers the same (or more) details in a way more natural way. I would say the Denon is about 20% more detailed, don't be mad if i'm wrong here.
The Denon can deliver vocals in a very natural and intimate way if the song calls for it, the Beyer has problems with that, it always retains a bit of a "detailed view from above for the purpose of analyzing the music" character.
Imaging on the Denon is better, both have almost the same soundstage size, maybe the Denon is a tiny bit bigger. Sometimes sounds on the Beyer sound staggered (the sounds are at the same distance from your head away) while the Denon can visualise a more nuanced imaging, as i said voices can get more personal.
Lets get into examples:
String instruments sound incredible similiar. "The Intro (feat. Apocalyptica)" from Bullet for My Valentine's Poison sounds EXTREMELY similiar. You notice very tiny details like the imperfections from pulling the string at 0:54 easily with both. The difference is in the imaging, the Denon pulls ahead, but it's a tiny amount and you have to focus hard.
Voices are as i said a pure win for the Denon, "The Spine" from the Transistor OST by Darren Korb sounds VERY good with the Beyer, but with the Denon i almost melt, the female voice sounds so rich and natural and lovely. I pulled out the big gun - the Susvara - and honestly the difference is there but i would not say that it's huge. That fact shocked me. The Sus brings out the instruments in a more livelier way, but the female voice is almost goddamn perfect on the Denon too. I love it.
The "S" and "T" noises of any singer are more natural and way more pleasing on the Denon, but everyone that ever heard a Beyer probably expected that.
Both the DT1990 and the D9200 have excellent dynamics and a very similiar punch. The start of both Muse's "Supermassive Black Hole" and Eminem's "Drug Ballad" have a very nice kick and punch to it. EXTREMELY similiar. They both slap hard.
Both headphones are not shouty (as you would expect from their graph), they pass the 0:46-0:51 from Avicii's "Addicted to You" test with flying colours and neither of them hurt (like the VC did).
Lets get into the bass. Leprous' "Have You Ever?" bass vibrates and should wrap up the listener. The DT1990 does that a bit better than the Denon, but neither of them are world class in that regard. The quality is the same, the Beyer has a tiny bit more quantity, i would say about 10%. The same goes for the Lovecraft entity that starts to appear at 0:45 and gets unnervingly close in Yosi Horikawa's Starlings, it's not scary with either of them, the VC did a better job here.
Eletronic music is a bit more preferably on the DT1990, because the Beyer has a bit more bass quantity. Dance With The Dead or Carpenter Brut sounds a bit more engaging, but again, it's not a big difference. You may even prefer the Denon because it's a bit less bright. Honestly the difference is incredibly small.

All in all:
I would say the Denon AH-D9200 is an overall upgrade from the Beyerdynamic DT1990. It can engulf you more into the music and has better imaging, you get way better vocals without sharp "S" and "T" consonants. Honestly these headphones sound VERY similiar. The clarity, the details, the soundstage and the dynamics are very similiar. Timbre is better on the Denon. The bass quality on both is excellent and the same and - the only thing where the Denon loses a bit - the quantity of it, which is a bit better on the Beyer, but not by much.
I think the main selling point are the vocals. The only time i can see someone prefering the Beyer is on electronic music where it sounds fuller. If you're a basshead neither of them are for you as they don't have enough quantity in the lower region.

Both are comfortable for me, with the Denon pulling ahead slightly. Sound isolation on it isn't great but it's at least a bit, while the Beyer is totally open.
The DT1990 needs in my opinion a tube amp which makes it great, you take it from "only for getting fed details" to "enjoying the music". The Denon sounds perfect on everything.
Very short comparison D9200 vs Grado Hemp: Hemp is brighter, has more midbass (which let it sound fuller) and a way bigger soundstage but a lot less clarity and details.

Thanks for reading!

For anyone that thinks about an upgrade from the DT1990!

 

[xeizo]

For anyone that thinks about an upgrade from the DT1990!

Or use an EQ to make them sound virtually like the D9200, much cheaper

 

[Exekuhtor]

Or use an EQ to make them sound virtually like the D9200, much cheaper

Did you read it? How can you make timbre way more natural in EQ, also improve imaging so voices can get close and personal. Would interest me.

 

[Liberte]

I would certainly expect them to be an upgrade at over 3x the price of the DT1990. I'd love to hear them though, they look in beauty and build.

I mostly listen to electronic non-vocal music, going by your review it seems the DT1990 may have a slight edge for my tastes.

I currently can't get over the way the DT1990 presents ethereal reverb decays, really hits that spot for me. I can see why some feel they're too bright as they walk a tightrope, thankfully for my ears they stay well balanced on the rope.

 

[xeizo]

Did you read it? How can you make timbre way more natural in EQ, also improve imaging so voices can get close and personal. Would interest me.

EQ does more for what you perceive than you might think, you should try it

 

[Jonne Haven]

DT 1990 Pro EQ Revision 12-05-22

This EQ is an experiment with the Harman Target Curve. It religiously contours to it from the frequencies of 900-8000Hz notably the critical frequencies from 3325-4350Hz. Outside of those frequencies are my own deviations. Here is a graph of the Frequency Response after my EQ overlayed with the 2018 Harman Target Curve:

I did not just follow the Harman Curve blindly but was at one point in fact opposed to many aspects of it until through trial and error and experimentation I found that adhering precisely to it showed me that there is "SOMETHING" about this darn Curve that is right on the money. It seems to have everything you need and nothing you don't. Chicken skin from songs I'd heard 100s of times before!

The sub bass extension is a true one that extends leftward in a straight horizontal line instead of a drop off for true bottomless sub bass impact. 80Hz is emphasized to allow kick drums to cut through the mix and provide punch and slam. 300Hz and 575Hz are emphasized for the top ends of kick drums and the meatier parts of snare drums respectively. The "Beyerdynamic Peak" is eliminated and some added sparkle is present at 14kHz and up.

Channel: all
Preamp: -6.5 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 17 Hz Gain 2.55 dB Q 1
Filter 2: ON LSC Fc 39.5 Hz Gain 4.7 dB Q 0.69
Filter 3: ON LSC Fc 40.2 Hz Gain 0.71 dB Q 4
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 80 Hz Gain 7.74 dB Q 1.41
Filter 5: ON LSC Fc 85 Hz Gain -1.61 dB Q 1.2
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 230 Hz Gain -6.05 dB Q 1.3
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 300 Hz Gain 3.7 dB Q 2
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 575 Hz Gain 2.3 dB Q 4.5
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 750 Hz Gain -0.7 dB Q 4
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 900 Hz Gain 1.55 dB Q 0.7
Filter 11: ON PK Fc 1000 Hz Gain -0.9 dB Q 1.2
Filter 12: ON PK Fc 1250 Hz Gain -1.35 dB Q 0.9
Filter 13: ON PK Fc 2800 Hz Gain -1.3 dB Q 3.2
Filter 14: ON PK Fc 3100 Hz Gain 0.6 dB Q 1.2
Filter 15: ON PK Fc 3650 Hz Gain -0.4 dB Q 5
Filter 16: ON PK Fc 4000 Hz Gain -0.25 dB Q 4.5
Filter 17: ON PK Fc 4250 Hz Gain -4.4 dB Q 6.5
Filter 18: ON PK Fc 4300 Hz Gain 9 dB Q 5.2
Filter 19: ON PK Fc 4500 Hz Gain 2.8 dB Q 6
Filter 20: ON PK Fc 5000 Hz Gain -1.2 dB Q 4
Filter 21: ON PK Fc 5525 Hz Gain -1.75 dB Q 4
Filter 22: ON PK Fc 6200 Hz Gain 1.25 dB Q 4.5
Filter 23: ON PK Fc 6500 Hz Gain 0.6 dB Q 6
Filter 24: ON PK Fc 7300 Hz Gain -7.15 dB Q 4
Filter 25: ON PK Fc 8300 Hz Gain -6.2 dB Q 3.5
Filter 26: ON HSC Fc 12500 Hz Gain -7.15 dB Q 0.8
Filter 27: ON HSC Fc 13500 Hz Gain 4.26 dB Q 1.65
Filter 28: ON PK Fc 19500 Hz Gain 4.35 dB Q 0.5

The amount of bass can be easily tailored to your liking by adjusting Filter 5 to taste and then resetting the Pre-amp value back to -0.1.

I know that there are a lot of filters and I've been impugned for that on many occasions but I have an anal retentive ear for detail and precision that I can't ignore. With the attached .txt file you can simply import it into PEACE so as not to have to manually enter any values! I've been working in sound engineering for over 25 years and I've never heard sound degradation from EQing. Though I am a proponent of EQing I do not, by any means, intend to convey that you must EQ. I just like to do it personally. YMMV. Nuff said about that.

So finally, try this EQ out if you're curious and maybe you'll like it! I am not selling anything, I am merely sharing an aspect of this headphone hobby we all love so much! Happy listening!

Blessings,
-Jonne

 

[xeizo]

DT 1990 Pro EQ Revision 12-05-22

This EQ is an experiment with the Harman Target Curve. It religiously contours to it from the frequencies of 900-8000Hz notably the critical frequencies from 3325-4350Hz. Outside of those frequencies are my own deviations. Here is a graph of the Frequency Response after my EQ overlayed with the 2018 Harman Target Curve:




I did not just follow the Harman Curve blindly but was at one point in fact opposed to many aspects of it until through trial and error and experimentation I found that adhering precisely to it showed me that there is "SOMETHING" about this darn Curve that is right on them money. It seems to have everything you need and nothing you don't. Chicken skin from songs I'd heard 100s of times before!

The sub bass extension is a true one that extends leftward in a straight horizontal line instead of a drop off for true bottomless sub bass impact. 80Hz is emphasized to allow kick drums to cut through the mix and provide punch and slam. 300Hz and 575Hz are emphasized for the top ends of kick drums and the meatier parts of snare drums respectively. The "Beyerdynamic Peak" is eliminated and some added sparkle is present at 14kHz and up.

Channel: all
Preamp: -6.5 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 17 Hz Gain 2.55 dB Q 1
Filter 2: ON LSC Fc 39.5 Hz Gain 4.7 dB Q 0.69
Filter 3: ON LSC Fc 40.2 Hz Gain 0.71 dB Q 4
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 80 Hz Gain 7.74 dB Q 1.41
Filter 5: ON LSC Fc 85 Hz Gain -1.61 dB Q 1.2
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 230 Hz Gain -6.05 dB Q 1.3
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 300 Hz Gain 3.7 dB Q 2
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 575 Hz Gain 2.3 dB Q 4.5
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 750 Hz Gain -0.7 dB Q 4
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 900 Hz Gain 1.55 dB Q 0.7
Filter 11: ON PK Fc 1000 Hz Gain -0.9 dB Q 1.2
Filter 12: ON PK Fc 1250 Hz Gain -1.35 dB Q 0.9
Filter 13: ON PK Fc 2800 Hz Gain -1.3 dB Q 3.2
Filter 14: ON PK Fc 3100 Hz Gain 0.6 dB Q 1.2
Filter 15: ON PK Fc 3650 Hz Gain -0.4 dB Q 5
Filter 16: ON PK Fc 4000 Hz Gain -0.25 dB Q 4.5
Filter 17: ON PK Fc 4250 Hz Gain -4.4 dB Q 6.5
Filter 18: ON PK Fc 4300 Hz Gain 9 dB Q 5.2
Filter 19: ON PK Fc 4500 Hz Gain 2.8 dB Q 6
Filter 20: ON PK Fc 5000 Hz Gain -1.2 dB Q 4
Filter 21: ON PK Fc 5525 Hz Gain -1.75 dB Q 4
Filter 22: ON PK Fc 6200 Hz Gain 1.25 dB Q 4.5
Filter 23: ON PK Fc 6500 Hz Gain 0.6 dB Q 6
Filter 24: ON PK Fc 7300 Hz Gain -7.15 dB Q 4
Filter 25: ON PK Fc 8300 Hz Gain -6.2 dB Q 3.5
Filter 26: ON HSC Fc 12500 Hz Gain -7.15 dB Q 0.8
Filter 27: ON HSC Fc 13500 Hz Gain 4.26 dB Q 1.65
Filter 28: ON PK Fc 19500 Hz Gain 4.35 dB Q 0.5

The amount of bass can be easily tailored to your liking by adjusting Filter 5 to taste and then resetting the Pre-amp value back to -0.1.

I know that there are a lot of filters and I've been impugned for that on many occasions but I have an anal retentive ear for detail and precision that I can't ignore. With the attached .txt file you can simply import it into PEACE so as not to have to manually enter any values! I've been working in sound engineering for over 25 years and I've never heard sound degradation from EQing. Though I am a proponent of EQing I do not, by any means, intend to convey that you must EQ. I just like to do it personally. YMMV. Nuff said about that.

So finally, try this EQ out if you're curious and maybe you'll like it! I am not selling anything, I am merely sharing an aspect of this headphone hobby we all love so much! Happy listening!

Blessings,
-Jonne

Thanks! Will test! Right now, I'm EQ:ing the HE400SE to my liking, it can be much improved from default. I will get back to the DT1990 Pro later and of course test your curve.

 

[Exekuhtor]

Goddamnit, the DT1990 is just so good out of the Echo. I lend my two big boys to a local headfier (and the Denon to my father) and am "stuck" with the Beyers for the time being and the DT1990 blows my mind for its cost (on tubes). A bit of a hard pill to swallow that i don't miss the big planars as much as i should. DT1990 can be endgame for sure if you want.

 

[xeizo]

Goddamnit, the DT1990 is just so good out of the Echo. I lend my two big boys to a local headfier (and the Denon to my father) and am "stuck" with the Beyers for the time being and the DT1990 blows my mind for its cost (on tubes). A bit of a hard pill to swallow that i don't miss the big planars as much as i should. DT1990 can be endgame for sure if you want.

Yes, they sound very good, in particular the punchiness and drama which planars don't seem to have as much of. Listening to Yellowstone Season 5 Volume 1 soundtrack on Tidal right now and it sounds silly good. Using parametric EQ on my digital mixer to tame the curve works good enough, I haven't set up EAPO on that path as I use it for sound recording and don't want to make things more complicated than they are. Just using the the Presonus HP4 on balanced, it drives these without any problems and the sound is in general warm and cozy while still high res.

 

[GioRider]

hI, I have DT 770 PRO 250 OHM, and I really like the sound, I don't notice excessive sibilance and brightness. I would like to switch to the 1990s, how do they compare in terms of high frequencies to the 770s?
Thanks