[GoRedwings19]

Kuma>Do you find the higher you go in a manufacturers range and the more you spend they tend to sound like a high end vinyl rig? As in more natural sounding with warmth. Looks like you got a passion for high end british products.

 

[Blitzula]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuma The CDX. It is ultimately a better player than the CD5i.

"Of all the CD players I've heard at home, the CDX was the most mercurial. It made bad-sounding discs sound awful and great ones incredibly convincing. Weekly, I receive dozens of discs for review in The Tracking Angle, and sometimes I'll spend a few days doing nothing but auditioning new CDs. So pitifully few sound any good that it is easy to lose sight of that and blame the player. CD after CD sounded dynamically compressed, spatially squeezed, rhythmically confused, bass-shy, and edgy on top—as if the highs had been shelved. I kept great-sounding discs, like Patricia Barber's Modern Cool, close by to remind me how dynamic, transparent, and richly three-dimensional the CDX could sound."

Doesn't sound very forgiving....and a lot of hard rock/metal cds need mercy.

So, is this what you recommend Kuma?

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....lay&1110632090

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzula "Of all the CD players I've heard at home, the CDX was the most mercurial. It made bad-sounding discs sound awful and great ones incredibly convincing. Weekly, I receive dozens of discs for review in The Tracking Angle, and sometimes I'll spend a few days doing nothing but auditioning new CDs. So pitifully few sound any good that it is easy to lose sight of that and blame the player. CD after CD sounded dynamically compressed, spatially squeezed, rhythmically confused, bass-shy, and edgy on top—as if the highs had been shelved. I kept great-sounding discs, like Patricia Barber's Modern Cool, close by to remind me how dynamic, transparent, and richly three-dimensional the CDX could sound." Doesn't sound very forgiving....and a lot of hard rock/metal cds need mercy. So, is this what you recommend Kuma? http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....lay&1110632090

LOL I read that same review and instantly had the same exact concern.

 

[Blitzula]

Whenever I hear the words "ruthless and non-forgiving" in regards to rock cds, I get nervous. I want to enjoy my whole collection, not just well-recorded cds, be they rock or some other genre.

 

[kuma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRedwings19 Kuma>Do you find the higher you go in a manufacturers range and the more you spend they tend to sound like a high end vinyl rig? As in more natural sounding with warmth. Looks like you got a passion for high end british products.

it's not so much that I have an affinity for the hi-end brits products, few products ( brits or not ) do what I value sonically.

Ultimately, I don't care where the stuff is made so long as they deliver what I'm looking for.

As for your question, it might depend on what type of analogue quality you are talking about.
As you know, costlier stuff often provides more resolution and sophistications, but inevidably there are voicing diffrences that might or might not suit everyone's cup of tea.

I sure do not want the player that sounds like mega bucks Clearaudio or Transroter ( and please make it a Koetsu cart. free-zone ).

FWIW, the Naim CDS3 is the closest to the LP12 in terms of voicing and I happen to like that table. Interesting to note that actually the CDS3 sounds closer to the LP12 rather than their own CD12.

 

[GoRedwings19]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuma it's not so much that I have an affinity for the hi-end brits products, few products ( brits or not ) do what I value sonically. Ultimately, I don't care where the stuff is made so long as they deliver what I'm looking for. As for your question, it might depend on what type of analogue quality you are talking about. As you know, costlier stuff often provides more resolution and sophistications, but inevidably there are voicing diffrences that might or might not suit everyone's cup of tea. I sure do not want the player that sounds like mega bucks Clearaudio or Transroter ( and pelase mamke it Koetsu cart. free-zone ). FWIW, the Naim CDS3 is the closest to the LP12 in terms of voicing and I happen to like that table. Interesting to note that actually the CDS3 sounds closer to the LP12 rather than their own CD12.

I have listened to the CDS3 and really liked it. I would of bought it only, this ML combo came up and I decided to go with this. But it would of been the CDS3. I have never believe it or not heard the LP12 but I have heard the cd12. My impressions of it was that it was too laid back, wait that's the wrong phrasing, more like I didn't like where it placed me into regards to the posistion. I like to be a little forward. The CD12 to my ears anyway placed me at the back. It is till beautiful made and does sound good. But only up to a certain point. It is not worth £12000 in sound. But I didn't find it got my toe tapping. It was accurate to the recording and maybe that's the fault in my eyes.

 

[kuma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzula Whenever I hear the words "ruthless and non-forgiving" in regards to rock cds, I get nervous. I want to enjoy my whole collection, not just well-recorded cds, be they rock or some other genre.

The CDX might not be everyone's liking.

If you are looking for something more benign in the Naim range I recommend the CD5 with Hi-cap. The 5 series gear is more round-earthed.

Othewise, look elsewhere. Altho, I highly doubt you'll find something that can deliver the music with the right intention.
If the reviews make you feel uncomfortable, perhaps you are better off with something else. ( or strech the budget for the CD5X )

I did not find the CDX particularly ruthlessly revealing. Which system did the reviewers use for the quote?

I auditioned one in varieties of Naim systems only:
Nait 3R/SL2
252 & 552/NAP300/SL2
552/active SL2 ( NAP 300 x2 )

What I did not care for at all out of older Naim CD players were CD3 & 3.5 and older.
Those are starting to get long in a teeth.
I don't own any audiophile recordings and certainly that's a last thing I put on for any demo. ( what good is it if a system can't play your music in the first place )
Typically if a system can do my music all right, it is even greater when you put on something more *respectable*.

I do agree that any gear should not descriminate any music genre and I did not feel that way with the CDX whereas CD5i might be more limited.

Considering the used pricing of a bare CDX, it is a better buy than a new CD5i. ( at least to me )

p.s.The review reminds me of a horrid home demo experience with a CDX2. I've used it in my office system and wow. It was bright, compressed and abosolutely no bass with it.

In a long run, it gave me a headache. I was set to return it, but decide to put it in the main rig ( another non Naim rig ). Amasing transformation. No brightness, no compression. ( ok. the bass was still light ). But it sounded completely a different player!

 

[kuma]

Quote:

My impressions of it was that it was too laid back, wait that's the wrong phrasing, more like I didn't like where it placed me into regards to the posistion. I like to be a little forward.

My thought was the same regarding the CD12.
I had an oppotunity to AB with my Krell kps25s years back. ( both units were with 20bit DAC version, then )

It was more sophisticated than the Krell, but it lacked in certain organic quality in my system.

The CDS3 or all Naim players are unique in that they have a forward image projection. Stronger midband energy than most which make 'em more involving. The downside is that few might be put off by it. Thier empahsis is more about the performance itself than try to recreate the venue. i.e. they are there vs. they are here effect.

A CD12 has the 'they are there ' projection whereas the CDS3 has the latter effect coupled with the naturalness and honesty which I think the venerable LP12 offers.

 

[Zoide]

Would the Bel Canto DAC2 be a bad source for hard rock and metal? I'd be using it with the Sensaphonics 2X-S and the SuperMacro with OPA627s.

I've heard that the Bel Canto DAC2 is smoother and more calm, so to speak, than the Benchmark DAC1. This would seem to make the DAC1 a better choice for fast music. At the same time, however, I've heard that the DAC1 is leaner while the DAC2 is more full-bodied, and I really like full-bodied, non fatiguing sound.

To put things in context, I find the HD-580s too laid-back/full-bodied/non-fatiguing, the CD-3000 too lean/bright, and the 2X-S just about right. I currently use the AOS Piccolo DAC and enjoy it quite a bit, but was looking to get a source that improved upon its attributes and would be more jitter immune (my transport is an M-Audio Sonica).

Thanks,

Andrés

 

[kuma]

Quote:

Would the Bel Canto DAC2 be a bad source for hard rock and metal?

Andres,

A DAC2 is a fine all-round DAC, but, I didn't care for it with uptempo stuff. I could detect a slight timing smearing.
( that's one of the reason I use 47lab's Shigaraki DAC instead )

But, the Bel Canto is a very safe reco. A great resolution and decent frequency extensions for the DAC in the price range. ( plus, great reviews eveywhere!

)
I do not know anything about your Piccolo DAC, so, I have no idea how it fairs.

but I think it still slowed down the music and lacked in the jump factor for me.
The DAC1 was even slower.
FWIW, I had the original DAC1, DAC1.2 and DAC2 at the same time, and by far, the DAC 2 is most competent.

Haven't heard the Benchmark. After hearing some feedback from the few folks who heard it, I've decided not to bother with demoing one. Most common comments were it did not do anything bad per se, but seriously lacked in communication skill. It's a studio DAC, so, that to be expected I guess.

 

[Blitzula]

Kuma, could you explain the sound differences between the cd5i I heard today and the CDX (in more detail than before if possible)? And do you think that link I posted is a good deal?

 

[walkman666]

Good timing! I coincidentally listened to the cd5i and a used cdx yesterday in NYC. Both naim cd players were hooked up to a nait 5i and a pair of von schweikert $4k level speakers. The auditioning room at the dealer's was outstanding, and the acoustics were perfect. The large naim kit was on a fraim. The sound was very musical from the cd5i and I enjoyed listening to A Perfect Circle, Morphine and Alice in Chains quite much. I also brought my Porta Corda MKII and a pair of Grado SR-225s and connected them directly to the cd5i and did a listen that way. Very good sound indeed; rhythmic and grooving. I do think bliztula is accurate in that naim sacrifices some detail for musicality, and that is okay with me.

The cdx sounded a bit better than the cd5i, warmer with more detail, but dealer pushed this sale hard, and was saying the client wanted $2350 for it, which was a lower price than what he expected the client to ask for. I had recalled seeing two of these same players for sale at Audiogon for about $1800, so I was preturbed. I confirmed this when I came home, so this validated a bad taste in my mouth about this dealer tactic. I guess he would defend himself by saying I am also paying an extra $600 for his warranty on the used product, which he offered, but that's not enough when he also added that "I'm not making any profit on the deal and the cdx was underpriced." Not. This is a personal digression though, and more for kuma's sake since he has been aware of my impending audition and helpful with reams of naim knowledge.

All in all, I would buy the naim cd5i; I liked it a lot and think it would be a great fit with our music, blitz. I think you could do better with a cd5x, though, from what the naim-ites say on their forum (which has upgradability that the 5i does not), but you'd have to give it a listen. I need to vet this purchase with the mrs, tho; $1800 for a cd player could lead to some matrimonial strife, even with bonuses coming up.

kuma/blitz: more naim thoughts?

thx, - walkman666

 

[Blitzula]

Yeah, the CD5i does seem like it's the closest thing to a solid fit with our hard rock/metal musical tastes. I was intrigued by it enough to wonder if one of the older used players might sound better (not that I didn't like the CD5i, I did), which is why I'm picking Kuma's brain now.

Did you have more FUN with the CD5i or the CDX? I read on those (horribly biased, heh) Naim forums that the CDX is smoother. Smoother has been less involving for me. This is what I want in my source....flat out the most excitement and fun. A civilized and polite sound is for classical music fans!

Kuma, how dare you have a life and not constantly track this board! Please let me know your thoughts on that audigon ad.

 

[walkman666]

Hey Blitz. Yeah, kuma has been very helpful to me on the naim thing, too. I thought the cdx was smoother, as you indicated others said, and a bit more detailed, but both were highly involving. The difference to the cd5i was not significant enough for me to go with a 5 year-old unit over a brand new unit. If I go naim, I'll go with the cd5i even though Audiogon has the cdx, a better sounding player, for the same price as a brand new cd5i.

Yes, those naim forums are highly biased, and that's another reason why kuma is helpful; he aint. Also, the naim forum is necessary because while it's like 97% naim talk, these boards here are naim-less (with a preference towards meridian, modded players, and some others). Hopefully, it balances out in the long run.

Ultimately, thus far, I do think the naim sound is consistent with our tastes and would be one of the better fits. I was really groovin' when I had the cd5i connected to my teeny tiny porta corda MKII (which was openly mocked by my arrogant, but highly knowledgeable, dealer) and my grado 225s. Whatever. I am sure the cd5i and my grados and my gilmore lite would sound even better.

- walkman666

 

[morphie]

IMO nothing better than the benchmark DAC1 for guitar drums and bass. Then again, i havent listened to any mark levinson or meridian cd players, altho a basic cd player+dac1 = meridian quality cd players ive been told. for about 900 bucks new u can get very high quality DAC.