tbonner1
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Look here at the home amp comparison of 21 amps:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...hlight=yarland
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...hlight=yarland
Best Solid State Amp for Senn 650s
- Thread starter bwarfel
- Start date
Mazuki
500+ Head-Fier
From what I have heard, the Lehmann Black Cube has magical synergy with the HD650. They're both made in Germany. Germans know Germans best.
Icarium
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The MAD Purist? Or whatever is in that price range too. Doge/Darkvoice amps are cheaper there's tons really. Yamamoto HA-02 is ~975 and not bad but I think a bit underpowered for Sennheisers though people have supposedly felt that it drives them well.
Sovkiller
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Regardless of which amp you choose, I strongly suggest you to go balanced with that HD650, that is the only way of making it really worth the investment, and take it to another level of performance, it will sound better out of a modest balanced amp, rather than an ultra-uber-expensive single ended amp...
Sovkiller
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Quote:
I feel that after listening a lot of amps I can conclude that this is a myth that have been here around for years, tube amps can sound as fast, lively and bright as any solid state amp, OTOH a solid state amp could sound as bored and warm as any tube amp, depending on the topology. IMO that this is a completelly wrong concept of what a solid state or tube amp can do and how they could sound. You can have 20 solid state amps, and indeed we have more around here, and all of them sound completelly different, from warmer to sharp, what makes them sound different is nto just the nature, we ahve other aspects, among other things, basically the harmonic distortion pattern the designer follow, usually a high second harmonic will give you a more pleasant sound, but what makes them sound different, is not the nature of the amp, tubes, Opams, you cna get the sound you want either way, of course in one case is harder to achieve than others, tubes tend ot give you that pattern naturally, in solid state you have to be creative to get it, but at the end, if you follow the same distortion patterns, it is really hard to distinguish between a solid state and a tube amp just based on the character of the sound...trust me on that...
| Originally Posted by Icarium /img/forum/go_quote.gif Tube amps for the most part have a warmer sound signature etc. If you want to go full on euphonic/warm sound then yeah go with tube amps. It all depends on what you are looking for. Also personally I feel there is more of a sound signature variance from tube amp to tube amp because of the flexibility of tube offerings that manufacturers offer esp Singlepower which has a plethora of adapters that work with an even larger selection of tubes, while though solid state amps due deviate siginificantly from maker to maker... I think the variance is somewhat less than with tube amps. I definitely would not for instance say that a Yamamoto HA-02 sounds anything like a Zana Deux... though with two extreme solid state examples, a GS-X/Ray Samuels Apache you can still say okay yeah I can see how they are both solid state amps 
|
I feel that after listening a lot of amps I can conclude that this is a myth that have been here around for years, tube amps can sound as fast, lively and bright as any solid state amp, OTOH a solid state amp could sound as bored and warm as any tube amp, depending on the topology. IMO that this is a completelly wrong concept of what a solid state or tube amp can do and how they could sound. You can have 20 solid state amps, and indeed we have more around here, and all of them sound completelly different, from warmer to sharp, what makes them sound different is nto just the nature, we ahve other aspects, among other things, basically the harmonic distortion pattern the designer follow, usually a high second harmonic will give you a more pleasant sound, but what makes them sound different, is not the nature of the amp, tubes, Opams, you cna get the sound you want either way, of course in one case is harder to achieve than others, tubes tend ot give you that pattern naturally, in solid state you have to be creative to get it, but at the end, if you follow the same distortion patterns, it is really hard to distinguish between a solid state and a tube amp just based on the character of the sound...trust me on that...
feifan
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Quote:
No, I'm just curious about the apparent attraction of this topic: HD650 and SS amps.
Re tube amps, I have to agree with those who hear warmth and liquidity with tubes vs. analytical clarity with SS. Of course, this is a generalization, and there are always the exceptions -- tubes that are analytical as well and SSs that are warm etc. Sovkiller also makes a good point -- a lot depends on your amp-cans synergy, too. Like him, I've found that the ideal match for the HD650 is balanced. The dang thing comes alive, like its sinuses have suddenly been flushed.
I get the tube warmth in my SS (unbalanced) amp via the GS1K, with the Black (not Silver) Dragon. The ideal, for me, is a blend of the best of both -- warmth with analytical clarity.
Re the interest in this topic -- my guess is that the HD650 has become a de facto standard, for better or for worse, and it provides a common ground for us to cope with all the amps that are out there -- tube, SS, balanced, etc. The questions you ask are ones that we're all facing, and I think we're playing out our own issues as we discuss yours.
| Originally Posted by Kahuna /img/forum/go_quote.gif Are you suggesting a tube amp? If so, I'd love to read your opinions on which one. (I'll increase my limit to $800.00 on the amp). If the general consensus is against SS amps, I'd also like to read why... |
No, I'm just curious about the apparent attraction of this topic: HD650 and SS amps.
Re tube amps, I have to agree with those who hear warmth and liquidity with tubes vs. analytical clarity with SS. Of course, this is a generalization, and there are always the exceptions -- tubes that are analytical as well and SSs that are warm etc. Sovkiller also makes a good point -- a lot depends on your amp-cans synergy, too. Like him, I've found that the ideal match for the HD650 is balanced. The dang thing comes alive, like its sinuses have suddenly been flushed.
I get the tube warmth in my SS (unbalanced) amp via the GS1K, with the Black (not Silver) Dragon. The ideal, for me, is a blend of the best of both -- warmth with analytical clarity.
Re the interest in this topic -- my guess is that the HD650 has become a de facto standard, for better or for worse, and it provides a common ground for us to cope with all the amps that are out there -- tube, SS, balanced, etc. The questions you ask are ones that we're all facing, and I think we're playing out our own issues as we discuss yours.
Icarium
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Quote:
You may be right but I have yet to hear a tube amp or a tube complement with the amps I have that can match a solid state amp. If you can point me towards an amp or a set of tubes to try with my current amps perhaps I will try them some day (Hopefully soon). I have a pretty good deal of flexibility with my SDS and like I've said in other threads, a fair number of combinations to try including some by SACDlover who is pretty savvy about tubes, but I have tried a few from Mikhail and while they do sound great they do not exactly achieve all the characteristics I get from my Rudistor amp. I think sound stage is perhaps achievable esp with a nice balanced tube amp, but I am still not convinced that clarity and instrumental separation can be matched. Shrug, I'm not 100 percent ruling it out though and my post before was a generalization based on my personal experiences.
And yeah I think balanced is definitely the way to go with HD650s I know there are people who don't agree with that though some of them base it on balancing them directly from a dac like the Lavry or the DAC1 and they say that the difference is due to the top tier nature of most in production balanced amps... but yeah I dunno.
| Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif I feel that after listening a lot of amps I can conclude that this is a myth that have been here around for years, tube amps can sound as fast, lively and bright as any solid state amp, OTOH a solid state amp could sound as bored and warm as any tube amp, depending on the topology. IMO that this is a completelly wrong concept of what a solid state or tube amp can do and how they could sound. You can have 20 solid state amps, and indeed we have more around here, and all of them sound completelly different, from warmer to sharp, what makes them sound different is nto just the nature, we ahve other aspects, among other things, basically the harmonic distortion pattern the designer follow, usually a high second harmonic will give you a more pleasant sound, but what makes them sound different, is not the nature of the amp, tubes, Opams, you cna get the sound you want either way, of course in one case is harder to achieve than others, tubes tend ot give you that pattern naturally, in solid state you have to be creative to get it, but at the end, if you follow the same distortion patterns, it is really hard to distinguish between a solid state and a tube amp just based on the character of the sound...trust me on that... |
You may be right but I have yet to hear a tube amp or a tube complement with the amps I have that can match a solid state amp. If you can point me towards an amp or a set of tubes to try with my current amps perhaps I will try them some day (Hopefully soon). I have a pretty good deal of flexibility with my SDS and like I've said in other threads, a fair number of combinations to try including some by SACDlover who is pretty savvy about tubes, but I have tried a few from Mikhail and while they do sound great they do not exactly achieve all the characteristics I get from my Rudistor amp. I think sound stage is perhaps achievable esp with a nice balanced tube amp, but I am still not convinced that clarity and instrumental separation can be matched. Shrug, I'm not 100 percent ruling it out though and my post before was a generalization based on my personal experiences.
And yeah I think balanced is definitely the way to go with HD650s I know there are people who don't agree with that though some of them base it on balancing them directly from a dac like the Lavry or the DAC1 and they say that the difference is due to the top tier nature of most in production balanced amps... but yeah I dunno.
alfie
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Quote:
I quote that. The HD650 really opens when driven balanced. Of course, a very good amplifier will drive it in a wonderful way. F.e. I love my HD650 with the Beta22.
| Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif Regardless of which amp you choose, I strongly suggest you to go balanced with that HD650, that is the only way of making it really worth the investment, and take it to another level of performance, it will sound better out of a modest balanced amp, rather than an ultra-uber-expensive single ended amp... |
I quote that. The HD650 really opens when driven balanced. Of course, a very good amplifier will drive it in a wonderful way. F.e. I love my HD650 with the Beta22.
tbonner1
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quote-if you follow the same distortion patterns, it is really hard to distinguish between a solid state and a tube amp just based on the character of the sound...trust me on that...
True. A few years ago Bob Carver built a solid state amp with tube character and challenged golden ear audiophile reviewers to tell the difference in blind testing.
True. A few years ago Bob Carver built a solid state amp with tube character and challenged golden ear audiophile reviewers to tell the difference in blind testing.
granodemostasa
Headphoneus Supremus
IMHO, the Zana Deux sounds better than the fully balanced GS-X on the HD650.
mrarroyo
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Sennheiser demos their cans with the Graham Slee Solo, now there is some food for thought.
daltonlanny
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For single-ended, I really love the way my 650/Equinox combo sounds with the HeadAmp GS-1. EXCELLENT combo, IMHO.
0V3RC10CK3D
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Quote:
Love my Gilmore Lite + DPS for my HD650's
| Originally Posted by tbonner1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Many like the Gilmore lite and and GS-1 to offset the darkness of the Senns. |
Love my Gilmore Lite + DPS for my HD650's
Sovkiller
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Quote:
I'm not a tube lover myself, and I preffer solid state over them, IMO there is nothing a tube can do that could not be bettered by a good solid state counterpart, also usually tube amps are bulky, heavy, and get hot, tubes wear overtime, and the good tubes (at least the considered ones) are really hard to find and expensive....too many inconveninces, to get an even inferior performance IMO...They can saound good, of course that is why they still exist, but I iwll not loose your sleep for not getting them, OK?
Solid state usually offer a better figures on everything, parts are easier to find, with a lot of substitutions possible, the voltages required are usually more conservative, they are very clean and clear sounding, as you stated, the only drawback I have ever heard, that IMO is a myth, is that BS about the pleasant sound due to the characteristic distortion pattern, that IME could be also achieved with SS...
I could point it out of what to do with tube amps though....just sell them to those tube nuts and period...!!!!
| Originally Posted by Icarium /img/forum/go_quote.gif You may be right but I have yet to hear a tube amp or a tube complement with the amps I have that can match a solid state amp. If you can point me towards an amp or a set of tubes to try with my current amps perhaps I will try them some day (Hopefully soon). I have a pretty good deal of flexibility with my SDS and like I've said in other threads, a fair number of combinations to try including some by SACDlover who is pretty savvy about tubes, but I have tried a few from Mikhail and while they do sound great they do not exactly achieve all the characteristics I get from my Rudistor amp. I think sound stage is perhaps achievable esp with a nice balanced tube amp, but I am still not convinced that clarity and instrumental separation can be matched. Shrug, I'm not 100 percent ruling it out though and my post before was a generalization based on my personal experiences. And yeah I think balanced is definitely the way to go with HD650s I know there are people who don't agree with that though some of them base it on balancing them directly from a dac like the Lavry or the DAC1 and they say that the difference is due to the top tier nature of most in production balanced amps... but yeah I dunno. |
I'm not a tube lover myself, and I preffer solid state over them, IMO there is nothing a tube can do that could not be bettered by a good solid state counterpart, also usually tube amps are bulky, heavy, and get hot, tubes wear overtime, and the good tubes (at least the considered ones) are really hard to find and expensive....too many inconveninces, to get an even inferior performance IMO...They can saound good, of course that is why they still exist, but I iwll not loose your sleep for not getting them, OK?
Solid state usually offer a better figures on everything, parts are easier to find, with a lot of substitutions possible, the voltages required are usually more conservative, they are very clean and clear sounding, as you stated, the only drawback I have ever heard, that IMO is a myth, is that BS about the pleasant sound due to the characteristic distortion pattern, that IME could be also achieved with SS...
I could point it out of what to do with tube amps though....just sell them to those tube nuts and period...!!!!
In my experience, Stello HP100 is the best solid state amp for HD650 (out of the ones I've heard of course). Anyways if I'd go for something totally new ATM it'd probably be Headamp GS1 (based on the reviews and comments I've read about it). I also have to mention Lehmann Black Cube Linear with USB input. I heard it at our last meet. It performed extremely well with HD650. I compared it to DA100 + HP100 combo and Heed Canamp. It was pretty much on par with DA100 + HP100 combo and I drove it using the USB input. Heed Canamp didn't come even close of these two. It had quite warm and full sound signature which didn't fit HD650. With DT880 it worked very well though.
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