[FeedYourHead]

Can anyone compare these to the Sivga Phoenix, or HD-560s?

 

[Roderick]

yes small in terms of the driver size. Thinking about it like the M1060 vs. M565. Avantone has a small driver compared to planars like the M1060. Small cups as well.

Soundwise its less bass slam, smaller sound stage and just not as big sounding.

Ironically I added pads to the stock pads on the M565 just like I did with the Avantone. It helps to make it sound bigger and the fit is better. After the m565 and Sendy i had agreed not to buy another small driver planar. Forgot that when getting the Avantone.

You should not rule out headphones by driver size, especially if you go by manufacturer specifications. You might miss out on something good. There is no standard on how to driver size should be specified. Audeze and monoprice talk about the whole diaphgram (including the passive area inside the baffle) when they say driver is 106mm. 70mm X 50mm is closer to the truth. Here is my m1060c.
This is Audeze lcd-1. 90mm according to audeze. It's more  like 50mm x 50mm.
It's not any bigger than Audeze sine driver.
According to manufacturer Verum 1 has a 82mm driver but it actually has a active is about 1,5 x the size of m1060.
I don't know how Avantone measured the driver to the size of 70 x 95 mm but if they mean the actual active driver area it is bigger than m1060.

Generally I do agree that in most cases bigger driver="bigger" sound but there are exceptions...best example being Abyss 1266 which has only 66mm driver. But again... Unlike Audeze when they say driver they mean driver, not the cup diameter.

 

[KPzypher]

While I think its interesting to see measurements (they do tell some things after all, or help explain problems), judging a headphone solely by measurements is complete nonsense. I once came across one of those sites, banned it immediately from my viewing... this procedure tells me one thing for sure: they have no clue what they are talking about.

That being said, there's a lot of nonsense GoodNotes around with measurements themselves, such as giving a frequency range but no information on how the limits were evaluated, i.e. do the ends of the frequency range get measured with 3db less spl than at 1kHz, with 10dB (which is already just pushing numbers in my opinion) or ...
Things like SPL (should be exactly defined e.g. dB @1mW @1kHz or dB @1V etc), impedance etc. mostly tell you about technical compatibility, frequency graphs give a very raw overview of the general tuning (but often miss any hint of correction curves or measurement gear used and are therefore often quite useless).

Long story short: nothing can replace the experience of *you* listening to a headphone. Alone the fit to your head makes it sound different... plus there's an unavoidable chasm between numbers and experience: there's a diffuse relation between measurements and experience, but its neither stable nor compatible between persons/headphone models.

Avantone being a professional audio gear company should have good measurements readily available though. And I think they'll provide that sooner or later. Yet an open planar... might not be for me anyway. Generally I don't like how planars present bass, and I only have limited use for open headphones in general. Nevertheless I like their design somehow.

Edit: autocorrect-correction

Well said. I agree 100% solely relying on FR graph is just silly, and too often people disregard fit/body/hearing difference.

Anyways, just pulled the trigger on these.

Needed a reference set beside my speakers and was looking into the Ollo s4x, but I'll try these first. Also wanted a planar for my next purchase and was considering HFM Sundara. FYI, I personally don’t consider my HD650 reference. Too forward with vocals and some instruments for that IMO.

I like the retro/industrial look and the red plate goes well with the overall design/aesthethics IMO. A bit concerned with the weight though. Usually like to keep them under 350g, but i do own a couple of heavy sets that are still fairly comfortable (stellia, verite). So hoping these will be in that category.

Nonetheless, I'm excited to see what the Avantone planar has to offer.

 

[Dawnrazor]

You should not rule out headphones by driver size, especially if you go by manufacturer specifications. You might miss out on something good. There is no standard on how to driver size should be specified. Audeze and monoprice talk about the whole diaphgram (including the passive area inside the baffle) when they say driver is 106mm. 70mm X 50mm is closer to the truth. Here is my m1060c.
This is Audeze lcd-1. 90mm according to audeze. It's more  like 50mm x 50mm.
It's not any bigger than Audeze sine driver.
According to manufacturer Verum 1 has a 82mm driver but it actually has a active is about 1,5 x the size of m1060.
I don't know how Avantone measured the driver to the size of 70 x 95 mm but if they mean the actual active driver area it is bigger than m1060.

Generally I do agree that in most cases bigger driver="bigger" sound but there are exceptions...best example being Abyss 1266 which has only 66mm driver. But again... Unlike Audeze when they say driver they mean driver, not the cup diameter.

Its a good point I suppose. Maybe I should just go by cup size. All I can say is that the smaller planars seem to dissappoint. Sendy is a great example of that for me.

 

[Mink]

I ordered a pair as well. My first pair of planars. Very much like the looks as well. I was hesitating between Verum One, HifiMan Sundara and these Avantones.
A couple of months ago I definitely would have chosen the Verums because of their supposed darker voiced tonality (relative to the Sundara's and Planar's), but ever since I got my Fidelio X3s I have started to appreciate a more brighter tonality. And since I already own three pairs of darker, thicker sounding headphones, both NightBirds and Sony MDR-Z7s a dead neutral, highly resolving pair of planars is a type of sound I don't own yet and I am very curious about. Also curious what type of neutral they do in comparison with the HD650s.
The Sundaras I only auditioned once, very briefly a year ago. It wasn't a good 1st impression, I found them to be clinical and grainy sounding. Nice details though. But apparently their sound is changed a bit in the recent production line. Don't know. My gut feeling tells me I still won't care much about them.

 

[KPzypher]

I ordered a pair as well. My first pair of planars. Very much like the looks as well. I was hesitating between Verum One, HifiMan Sundara and these Avantones.
A couple of months ago I definitely would choose the Verum's because of their supposed darker voiced tonality (relative to the Sundara's and Planar's), but ever since I got my Fidelio X3s I have started to appreciate a more brighter tonality. And since I already own three pairs of darker, thicker sounding headphones, both NightBirds and Sony MDR-Z7s a dead neutral, highly resolving pair of planars is a type of sound I don't own yet and I am very curious about. Also curious what type of neutral they do in comparison with the HD650s.
The Sundaras I only auditioned once, very briefly a year ago. It wasn't a good 1st impression, I found them to be clinical and grainy sounding. Nice details though. But apparently their sound is changed a bit in the recent production line. Don't know. My gut feeling tells me I still won't care much for them.

We've been picking up the same HPs lately .

If these don't check the boxes for reference for you, there are other so-called reference HPs in this price range that we can check out.

Ollo S4X, Neumann NDH-20, Mackie MC-450, Austrian Audio HI-X55, etc....

How much do these Avantone Planars go for in Europe if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Mink]

We've been picking up the same HPs lately .

If these don't check the boxes for reference for you, there are other so-called reference HPs in this price range that we can check out.

Ollo S4X, Neumann NDH-20, Mackie MC-450, Austrian Audio HI-X55, etc....

How much do these Avantone Planars go for in Europe if you don't mind me asking?

Yes, we did. Funny.
I paid 425 euro. Hifi is always more expensive in Europe, except for headphones by AKG and Beyerdynamic, they are (or were?) always more expensive in the US.
I chose the Avantones for the most part on the basis of No theme review's Youtube review, where he mentions their neutrality and above average soundstage.

 

[Terriero]

Yes, we did. Funny.
I paid 425 euro. Hifi is always more expensive in Europe, except for headphones by AKG and Beyerdynamic, they are (or were?) always more expensive in the US.

Before Beyer T 1.3 was launched, I was looking for a good offer or just for the black T 1.2 in several spanish or European webs (even in the Beyer web) and couldn't find nothing... In EEUU they had (and still) the black and the silver model about 600/700 $. I was so disappointed because Beyer is a German company.

 

[Ash Telecaster]

Hi,

Thanks for this review. I have been debating between getting these or the Sundara with the Sundara in the lead due to great reviews. Any thoughts between the two?

Thanks

 

[FeedYourHead]

Hi,

Thanks for this review. I have been debating between getting these or the Sundara with the Sundara in the lead due to great reviews. Any thoughts between the two?

Thanks

I've no experience with either, but build quality and lack of subbass have kept me away from Sundara.

 

[Ash Telecaster]

I've no experience with either, but build quality and lack of subbass have kept me away from Sundara.

I don't want to hijack the thread but I thought the advantage of planar, besides sound stage, was better bass extention.

I also heard the Hifiman QA issues were resolved with the Sundara.

Avantone is known as a pro audio company. Plus the design looks very unique. I have no doubt they are great. I did read a previous post where the head set had actually broken. I've never had that happen even having owned many mid-fi cans.

 

[Mink]

I don't want to hijack the thread but I thought the advantage of planar, besides sound stage, was better bass extention.

I also heard the Hifiman QA issues were resolved with in the Sundara.

Avantone is known as a pro audio company. Plus the design looks very unique. I have no doubt they are great. I did read a previous post where the head set had actually broken. I've never had that happen even having owned many mid-fi cans.

Yeah, that got me worried for a moment, but I decided to take the risk.

 

[FeedYourHead]

Yeah, freak accidents occur, and I'll chalk it up to that until it happens to someone else. I am curious to know if any other owners feel that could be a weak point, and am also curious what the manufacturer response was.

I don't want to hijack the thread but I thought the advantage of planar, besides sound stage, was better bass extention.

That's just not really true, on either count. Subscribing characteristics to driver types usually isn't very helpful.

The Sundaras are well known to be bass light, bass neutral at best. And there's multiple reports of subbass rolloff that can be found by searching sundara subbass.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

Yeah, freak accidents occur, and I'll chalk it up to that until it happens to someone else.



That's just not really true, on either count. Subscribing characteristics to driver types usually isn't very helpful.

The Sundaras are well known to be bass light, bass neutral at best. And there's multiple reports of subbass rolloff that can be found by searching sundara subbass.

Except that it is true. The design of planars lends them to be able to have much better bass extension than their dynamic counterparts. That doesn’t mean that all planars do, as there are always exceptions to everything. But it is absolutely generally true.

Planars tend to have less driver excursion capability than dynamics as well. Which is why they can sometimes sound very dynamically compressed. It’s hard to find a planar headphone that can sound as dynamic as the higher end Focal line, for example. These are well-known general truths about the two technologies.

 

[FeedYourHead]

I guess, i just don't see how it's helpful. It leads to situations like what we just experienced, a potential customer making assumptions based on something a completely different headphone does or doesn't do, just because they share a drvier type. Like all the people who swear off horns because all they've ever heard are crappy Klipsch tunings, or think all ported subs are boomy because of cheapo car-audio boxes tuned for output.

I just don't see how perpetuating these often-untrue stereotypes is a positive thing in general.