[sofastreamer]

All your suggestions make sense. I have to check the earbud thread for the flatheads and will definitely check the tozos. It will be a fun experiment. They look like miniature K1000!

First of all, though, I will try to train my brain to perceive sound as outside my head, see what happens.

Thank you for your time and suggestions.

sorry, that i didnt listen to your track yesterday, will try today

 

[sofastreamer]

Flatheads and IEMs are something I've wanted to try for a while now but the mass amount of them is very overwhelming to say the least lol. I believe music should be an experience and the way an earpiece, headphone, etc presents sound is just as important as tuning so with that in consideration do you recommend any?

oh there really are so many iems coming out almost on a daily bases and as i listen to those the least, i am not up to date to give a good starting point. Currently my favorite cheap set are the Kinera Celest Pandemon Planar driver iems. They are semi open and present a good open soundstage for a planar. I prefer planar drivers as i like the way they do layering. Dynamic driver iems usually have a better soundstage, but the Pandemon are comparable. They have a strong subbass tho.
A cheap but very underrrated IEM for soundstage with dynamic drivers are the Superlux H381f, they have a similar sound to the AKG k701.
You could also try the cheap Final Audio VR3000. They are marketed as gaming headset, but work fine for music too and are quite spacious for the price but are slightly V-shaped in signature.
In my experience Multi BA-driver iems have the best technicalities when done well, but you would have to invest at least 5-600 EUR for a good set, but as i said, i dont know many of the recent years, so there might be some cheaper gems. The Campfire Andromedas are a well known BA Set for soundstage if you want to invest some more money.
Or you go the open way with Audeze LCD-i3, which i use quite often at home. Another planar tho.

In the flathead realm it depends on the amount of money you would like to invest and what your prefered sound signature is. But just for testing it out i would suggest trying the Faaeal Snow Lotus you could get for about 20 EUR on Amazon. They have a strong bass but still are balanced and have a quite good out of head experience. I recommend using them with donut foams. I dont remember if they come with those, so if not, just cut a whole in the foams they come with. this way they retain the bass, but the highs will also stay airy and open. dont use flatheads without foams, as they will loose all the bass. at least when starting experimenting.
if you would like to go slightly higher in price, you cant go wrong with the original Fiio FF3 (not the FF3S!). They have some qualities in the bass and soundstage that otherwise is hard to find around 100 EUR.

Still i have to say if an AKG k701 doesnt manage to push the soundscape out of your head, you will have hard times with any kind of headphone. in this case i refer to my initial post. Only thing i could imagine would be the amp/source the k701 is driven from might have some quirks or is underpowered. Or finally the music you listen to isnt mixed with spatial cues in mind. Try to listen to some Carbon based lifeforms which do kind of ambient music, which is usually very spacious and check, if its still closed in.

 

[sofastreamer]

Hello everybody,
sorry for my english. I hope you can understand my point.
I own a pair of AKG-K702 and looking for an upgrade. The AKGs have a wide soundstage, but all centered musical content is inside my head. As an example. when I listen to this song (binaural wild soundstage), I hear a huge soundstage from left to right and behind my head (feels like 2m away). However, forward soundstage stays inside my head. From what I read in this thread the planars cover all my sound requirements, so my only other concern is that the center instruments are residing outside my head.
Can some owner of the planars listen to this song "" and tell me whether he can hear the forward projection of sound?

ok i listened to this cool mixed track with my k702 bass port modded and the avatone planar. unfortunately i have to tell you that both do the position in space quite similar. the avantone has a slight advantage regarding positioning in the height of the space. When the sound moves in front of you it is not as far as it is behind you or to the sides. its more like above you. there are three moments where it sounds the most in front but still more above you, which are at 1:45-1:50, 2:40-2:50 (most in front one) and 4:40-4:45. The one in the middle is about 1,5m in front of me but still very high vertically. the sound is at no time in my head at all with both sets. the overall sound is much more mature and realistic sounding with the avatone. i drove them single ended from a dx3 pro+ connected to my laptop in low gain. from a positional/spatial point of view you wont win too much with the avantone compared to the akg. hope that helps.

 

[Demetrios]

ok i listened to this cool mixed track with my k702 bass port modded and the avatone planar. unfortunately i have to tell you that both do the position in space quite similar. the avantone has a slight advantage regarding positioning in the height of the space. When the sound moves in front of you it is not as far as it is behind you or to the sides. its more like above you. there are three moments where it sounds the most in front but still more above you, which are at 1:45-1:50, 2:40-2:50 (most in front one) and 4:40-4:45. The one in the middle is about 1,5m in front of me but still very high vertically. the sound is at no time in my head at all with both sets. the overall sound is much more mature and realistic sounding with the avatone. i drove them single ended from a dx3 pro+ connected to my laptop in low gain. from a positional/spatial point of view you wont win too much with the avantone compared to the akg. hope that helps.

Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to this track for me with the avantones and the K702 and the detailed description. Your comparison is a great help for my decision for upgrade. I will stick to my K702 for a little longer in order to get used to the headphone listening experience and try to train my brain in interpreting the staging. It seems to me, that I should not expect a speaker-like experience from headphones (regarding the spatial information).

 

[sofastreamer]

Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to this track for me with the avantones and the K702 and the detailed description. Your comparison is a great help for my decision for upgrade. I will stick to my K702 for a little longer in order to get used to the headphone listening experience and try to train my brain in interpreting the staging. It seems to me, that I should not expect a speaker-like experience from headphones (regarding the spatial information).

my pleasure! good decision to further listen to music until the itch to upgrade becomes unbearable

 

[itiivch00]

Can someone compare Avantone Planar and Edition xs?

 

[sofastreamer]

Can someone compare Avantone Planar and Edition xs?

think of one beeing linear and one being v- or u-shaped with horribly bright treble emphasis.

 

[ManuCV]

Can someone compare Avantone Planar and Edition xs?

I don't have the Edition XS but the Arya Organic, and the Avantone PLANAR. I listened to the XS for a week though.
XS and AO are not the same but they are definitely brighter than the Planar. Quite different sound signatures, soundstage is wider in the XS (although not as wide as the AO). The Planar is much more linear as Sofastreamer said, it's less "fun" to listen if you are used to U or V-shaped headphones. However the Planar sounds right as it should, it is a studio headphone (something people seem to forget) and it's properly done for that purpose.

 

[plmon]

Can someone compare Avantone Planar and Edition xs?

From what I remember:

Soundstage is a bit smaller on Avantone Planar and slightly more intimate presentation. As a result, Edition XS sounded a bit more spacious and separated. But Avantone Planar's ability to separate the layers in the mix was better.

Tonality-wise, Edition XS sounds clearer and sharper due to the treble emphasis. For my preferences, Edition XS is neutral-bright, Avantone Planar is neutral-dark. Avantone Planar is more muted in parts of the treble, but this also shifts the tonal balance to the lower frequencies. So Avantone Planar sounds a bit more full-bodied than Edition XS and the bass is slightly punchier. The treble emphasis makes Edition XS sound more detailed overall, but I found Avantone Planar still sounds more resolving in the midrange.

Build-wise, Edition XS is more comfortable. The cups can swivel laterally a little and the earpads are plush. Avantone Planar's main issue is the weight (idk how much the Planar II's weight differs since it seems they made some of those changes on Planar I during its production). Suspension band distributes weight well, but it's still heavy over long periods.

 

[itiivch00]

think of one beeing linear and one being v- or u-shaped with horribly bright treble emphasis.

I have XS they are not so bright i have problems with highs only with some delta sigma dacs they make em sound very thin on top end and bass and mids have less body too. With R2R (multibit) they sound fantastic.

 

[itiivch00]

From what I remember:

Soundstage is a bit smaller on Avantone Planar and slightly more intimate presentation. As a result, Edition XS sounded a bit more spacious and separated. But Avantone Planar's ability to separate the layers in the mix was better.

Tonality-wise, Edition XS sounds clearer and sharper due to the treble emphasis. For my preferences, Edition XS is neutral-bright, Avantone Planar is neutral-dark. Avantone Planar is more muted in parts of the treble, but this also shifts the tonal balance to the lower frequencies. So Avantone Planar sounds a bit more full-bodied than Edition XS and the bass is slightly punchier. The treble emphasis makes Edition XS sound more detailed overall, but I found Avantone Planar still sounds more resolving in the midrange.

Build-wise, Edition XS is more comfortable. The cups can swivel laterally a little and the earpads are plush. Avantone Planar's main issue is the weight (idk how much the Planar II's weight differs since it seems they made some of those changes on Planar I during its production). Suspension band distributes weight well, but it's still heavy over long periods.

Wow you surprise me that avantone bass is punchier that's interesting

 

[itiivch00]

I don't have the Edition XS but the Arya Organic, and the Avantone PLANAR. I listened to the XS for a week though.
XS and AO are not the same but they are definitely brighter than the Planar. Quite different sound signatures, soundstage is wider in the XS (although not as wide as the AO). The Planar is much more linear as Sofastreamer said, it's less "fun" to listen if you are used to U or V-shaped headphones. However the Planar sounds right as it should, it is a studio headphone (something people seem to forget) and it's properly done for that purpose.

Generally i like V and U shape but there is really good flat headphones too. I like XS cose it has good details without overdone it some headphones are killing me with details and micro details and kills the good music for me. I think AO may be one of them so i prefer something on XS level on the detail retrieval part. I dunno how ppl enjoy on soo much micro details

 

[ManuCV]

Generally i like V and U shape but there is really good flat headphones too. I like XS cose it has good details without overdone it some headphones are killing me with details and micro details and kills the good music for me. I think AO may be one of them so i prefer something on XS level on the detail retrieval part. I dunno how ppl enjoy on soo much micro details

The good thing about the Arya Organic is the mix of detail and bass. Usually very detailed headphones are on the flat/bright side (and the AO are bright, yes) but the bass on the AO is... Amazing. Without being too U or V-shaped, they are anything but boring. A fun listen, and way different from the Planar.

 

[sofastreamer]

I have XS they are not so bright i have problems with highs only with some delta sigma dacs they make em sound very thin on top end and bass and mids have less body too. With R2R (multibit) they sound fantastic.

when an headphone is so bright you need the warmest resources to make it sound ok...

 

[mjobolks]

From what I remember:

Soundstage is a bit smaller on Avantone Planar and slightly more intimate presentation. As a result, Edition XS sounded a bit more spacious and separated. But Avantone Planar's ability to separate the layers in the mix was better.

Tonality-wise, Edition XS sounds clearer and sharper due to the treble emphasis. For my preferences, Edition XS is neutral-bright, Avantone Planar is neutral-dark. Avantone Planar is more muted in parts of the treble, but this also shifts the tonal balance to the lower frequencies. So Avantone Planar sounds a bit more full-bodied than Edition XS and the bass is slightly punchier. The treble emphasis makes Edition XS sound more detailed overall, but I found Avantone Planar still sounds more resolving in the midrange.

Build-wise, Edition XS is more comfortable. The cups can swivel laterally a little and the earpads are plush. Avantone Planar's main issue is the weight (idk how much the Planar II's weight differs since it seems they made some of those changes on Planar I during its production). Suspension band distributes weight well, but it's still heavy over long periods.

Have experience with both and can back everything said here. Except I really don't mind the weight but that's personal.