[inthere]

This headphone is polarizing. I make a living in the music industry and I love them. Every professional engineer I've let hear them love them and say they're the closest thing to professional speakers they've heard in a headphone. I've also been exposed to much more expensive gear on a regular basis. 
 
The average audiophile is going to hate them. I've seen tons of negative impressions and a lot of them in this very thread. 
 
The reason for this, from a pro engineering perspective and I've mentioned this before is most, if not all high end headphone have boosted treble. Of course audiophiles will call this ridiculous and "look at the graphs"and I say without going into a lengthy explanation of why current graphs are like Grimms fairy tales because of everything from inaccurate homemade algorithms to global head/ear size and fit, which coincidently is why different sites always have different graphs for the same headphone that the average audiophile is not only used to this extra treble, but expects it in a high end headphone.
 
More treble as mentioned before "shines a light on the details" and details are what people are paying a premium for. If voiced more naturally i.e. more like professional (not audiophile speakers, which also are inaccurate and not suitable for pro applications) speakers these high end headphones would at the very least be forced to cut their prices in half and be called "muddy" like the Nighthawk. 

 

[mrscotchguy]

 

[Hachiko270296]

I personally don't think they are muddy. Excessively overblown in the mid bass but the treble is still what I'd call resolving. It's just a bit rough and lacks smoothness up top with recessed upper mids. It's a bit V shaped. I think it's a good midfi headphone but it's priced higher than headphones that out perform it in key areas, I.e HD650 mids and smooth response.

They are a nice listen but most of the complaints like lack of mids are valid for enjoyment as for vocals it's a key part. I am surprised Tyll isn't too keen on them, he was shaking his head at them according to some people who was with him at a meet. He is also unsure. I personally thought he'd put them on the WOF as a dark, non fatiguing listen.

 

[AlanU]

Don't be ridiculous. There's as much negative impressions as there are positive. I have found the people who understand sound and have experience with better gear have been the most critical. I have also found most NH owners to be the most insecure about there purchase.

You have to accept that a headphone with a controversial FR is going to get bad points. You also show a lot of insecurity Leo by putting down a reviewer on YouTube that probably is more credible than yourself. My impressions won't change sucked out mids are a wonky upper end is not going to go away. Honestly as someone who's owned 50+ headphones including Audezes and the HD800, if the NH didn't have the bass it has, I'd get rid of it. That bass masks up all its faults.

Ok so due to the subjective point of view of audio...... you still like the HP for bass?
 
Your description is exactly what I heard as I listened to those headphones with the Woo WA6.  On that amplifier it has a high and low impedance switch and I switched both just to see if it made a substantial difference. In the female jazz vocals the mids were surprisingly very thin considering I was auditioning the NH and Tube amp. 
 
As far as "breakin'" I feel that in the 2 channel/HT world there is a time where a large speaker driver must loosen up. Bass may appear restricted/congested but as time passes the bass sounds more natural and where it should be. As for the NH I auditioned it's had plenty of hours of run time. 
 
On the Headfi forums is sure appears that there is alot of love for the HD650 and that HP gets compared to many other brands.  For the price point the HD650 is a  very good all round performer but it's certainly not what I'd considered exciting but no "adaption" is really required to get use to the HP sound. I think the NH price point is actually on the high side for what it is. The synthetic wood makes the appearance much nicer but it still must perform straight out of the gates for any listener. As I read this thread I find many folks are "learning" to adapt to the sound signature of this HP.
 
As I was auditioning alot of HP at once I even thought the new Senn Momentum v2 sounded "better" (subjective) than the NH upon my initial listen. My shocking discovery of how a cheaper portable Denon AH-MM400 was in a different level of "better" (subjective) SQ than the more expensive NH.
 
I'll be auditioning the NH again in a couple weeks time  just to double check my initial audition.  The HP has alot of variation but for me the 2 channel world has even more "catered" sound for every make/brand in the market. At least there's alot of fun "finding" headphones to add to a person's collection. 

 

[leomitch]

I personally don't think they are muddy. Excessively overblown in the mid bass but the treble is still what I'd call resolving. It's just a bit rough and lacks smoothness up top with recessed upper mids. It's a bit V shaped. I think it's a good midfi headphone but it's priced higher than headphones that out perform it in key areas, I.e HD650 mids and smooth response.

They are a nice listen but most of the complaints like lack of mids are valid for enjoyment as for vocals it's a key part. I am surprised Tyll isn't too keen on them, he was shaking his head at them according to some people who was with him at a meet. He is also unsure. I personally thought he'd put them on the WOF as a dark, non fatiguing listen.

 
 
Lack of mids is a valid criticism? Not for me it's not and from what I am reading very few others.
Maybe Tyil was shaking his head then, but we now know that the voice of the NH has been much improved since then. And by the way, some people might shake their heads when they can't believe the great sound they are hearing and now he and others like him have to deal with  it in a review, which as I said, one might expect  up to a point comments that are positive, but not strongly so. I hope I am wrong. I think with Tyil, he might bite the bullet and give the NH's their due and damn the torpedoes from the big companies. I believe he will.
Again my two cents worth!
 
Leo

 

[Krutsch]

  This headphone is polarizing. 
 
...

 
I really appreciate your comments, but this thread is discouraging and makes me want to stop reading Head-Fi.

 

[leomitch]

Don't be ridiculous. There's as much negative impressions as there are positive. I have found the people who understand sound and have experience with better gear have been the most critical. I have also found most NH owners to be the most insecure about there purchase.

You have to accept that a headphone with a controversial FR is going to get bad points. You also show a lot of insecurity Leo by putting down a reviewer on YouTube that probably is more credible than yourself. My impressions won't change sucked out mids are a wonky upper end is not going to go away. Honestly as someone who's owned 50+ headphones including Audezes and the HD800, if the NH didn't have the bass it has, I'd get rid of it. That bass masks up all its faults.

 
There you go! When you criticize, one way or another there will be someone to criticize you back. Your opinions are no more valid than mine mate and visa-versa.
As to being insecure, forget it. Nothing could be further from the truth! I made it very successfully through 40 years of teaching adolescents...no place for insecurity there believe me! You can call me ridiculous all you like.but I didn't disrespect you here, but you chose to!.
As for the person on YouTube, I didn't name him nor would I. I just think his work is light weight compared to some and certainly not a pro.. Still, his opinions are just as valid as mine. Difference of opinion that's all. That is what forums are for. No need to use ad hominin. I did it once on this board awhile back and apologized for it. Now that I think about it, the term pseudo was harsher than I meant to imply, so I retract that with an apologize to the unknown reviewer. I took the time to review some of his stuff and though I still disagree with much of  what he concludes, his methodology is pretty good, but not a pro.
 
Cheers mate
Leo

 

[leomitch]

   
I really appreciate your comments, but this thread is discouraging and makes me want to stop reading Head-Fi.

 
Why so mate? We are just flinging opinions back and forth. Controversy over which is a good and which is a bad headphone has been going on for years now.
The NH's are better than they should be for the dollar paid and so noses are out of joint for some. Don't give up just because there is vehement disagreement. Try them yourself. Maybe some of us should just go away and stop the disputing, but would you if you had a strong opinion, I mean walk away.
All the best Krutsch
Leo

 

[Krutsch]

   
Try them yourself. Maybe some of us should just go away and stop the disputing, but would you if you had a strong opinion, I mean walk away.
 

 
OK, I will (link).

 

[joeq70]

(Consumer) Headphones are simply a tool for enjoying music. Why are some people defending the Nighthawk as if it their newborn child? Some people like the way a headphone sounds, some do not. The Nighthawk is no exception. Just enjoy what you enjoy. The notion that there is some "Big Audio" conspiracy against the Nighthawk is nonsense. The world will keep spinning even if we don't all agree on how good or bad the Nighthawk sounds.
 
Anyway, in addition to what I've already commented about the sound of the Nighthawk, I will say this: I recently confirmed that it is indeed affected fairly significantly by the DAC and amp used. I tried the Nighthawk once again but this time took my Aune T1 to the dealer's shop. I tried the Nighthawk with several different tubes. Finding the right "flavor" of tube definitely helped the Nighthawk sound good enough that I am considering buying a pair. Certain artists sounded rather pleasing with it (CHVRCHES for example). If it worked better for me for Rock, I'd prob snag a pair.

 

[Hachiko270296]

Lack of mids is a valid criticism? Not for me it's not and from what I am reading very few others.
Maybe Tyil was shaking his head then, but we now know that the voice of the NH has been much improved since then. And by the way, some people might shake their heads when they can't believe the great sound they are hearing and now he and others like him have to deal with  it in a review, which as I said, one might expect  up to a point comments that are positive, but not strongly so. I hope I am wrong. I think with Tyil, he might bite the bullet and give the NH's their due and damn the torpedoes from the big companies. I believe he will.
Again my two cents worth!

Leo

No Tyll was disappointed. I know he can't seem to make his mind up about them which is never good. If you don't mind their recessed mids then that's fine. It doesn't change the facts which is they have a recession in the upper mids. That's fact, backed by graphs and the majority of the impressions.

 

[bracko]

Why are some people so insecure about their NH and feel constant urge to defend them? This thread is quite unique in that respect.

 

[inthere]

If I was insecure about my Nighthawks, I wouldn't let every pro engineer and music business professional I meet hear them. If they sounded like Beats I'd hide them

 

[gus6464]

So I take it they haven't been improved since their prototype at CanJam? At canjam they sounded super muddy with overblown midbass. I then listened to them again at RMAF and it was the same exact thing so I thought they were still in prototype stage. If those were retail units then the nighthawk is truly an awful headphone. If they are in retail stage are they still charging the ludicrous amount of $600?

 

[bracko]

  If I was insecure about my Nighthawks, I wouldn't let every pro engineer and music business professional I meet hear them. If they sounded like Beats I'd hide them:)

 
People who own Beats are actually the most active proponents of bad taste. They are quite good at showing their Beats for everyone and everywhere