[SearchOfSub]

The HD650 doesn't have a treble emphases  at all. Are you sure nothing is wrong with you HD650? The treble tilts dark where the NH continues on in comparison(See every graph and impression ever). The NH is dark because it's bass is so elevated but technically speaking it isn't really that dark.The NH also has a rough upper end, it's tizzy, a bit rough sounding but most will not hear it since they will only hear the bass which mask a lot of the upper ranges giving the impression it's smoother. Graphs also back this.

The HD650 has literally no peaks or dips making it a smoother headphone. It's mid range is linear so you get more full sounding mids, the NH has a massive mid bass hump so it will appear thicker in the lower mids but the HD650 is more complete, more heavy bodied with female vocals where the NH is more distant.

If you EQ down the bass you will really see the flaws in the NH's FR but also it's merits such as good air, good imaging. It's made on bass which is why it's so polarising. I've come to really like it but I also see it's flaws the more I listen.

When you listen to vocals the HD650 just more real, alive, breath taking but at the same time the NH has this really fun bass! The important thing with the HD650 is to find a good match amp wise. The NH runs from anything.

I have Valhalla 2 that ran with HD650 - I have Audioquest 1.2 that ran with Nighthawks. I prefer NH and Dragonfly combo.

Like another member said, if you focus on details and testing it, there is emphasis in bass on NH. But if you get over it and listen to the music as a whole, it goes away for me and everything works great together.

NH bit more refined and articulate than hd650. I know how hd650 sounds, I have my own and I heard another pair at demo shop. They sound identical. HD650 more energy, NH darker and mellower and smoother to my ears. But these traits on NH are presented with air and space. There is "lightness" involved with these qualities on NH which make it engaging, a little romantic if you will, and euphonic.

Two things hd650 lacks to NH is pure better refinement overall and details in bass. Where hd650 puts out one note bass, NH puts out more detail and make it more articulate. It's hifi sound, hd650 is rougher with everything overall.

I try eq down bass later on hachiko and see what you were saying.

 

[Hachiko270296]

The thing is you can't forget about the bass, it's the dominant aspect. It will always influence the sound no matter how much we don't want it to.

There's graphs that prove the HD650 has a smoother response that's actually fact. What we hear is the bass smoothing over everything making it appear smoother and it hides the faults. That's why the bass is, how it is because it helps the NH but it's also it's downfall. The HD650 has more energy because you are hearing al of its response where with the NH it's mid bass is the first thing you hear and it is basically it's bread and butter.

I hear the NH as smoother at first but that's because it's upper feel distant. I have yet to find a phone that is as smooth as the HD650. The Audeze LCD3 pre fazor game close.

 

[KLJTech]

  I just got a Nighthawk and will probably sell it soon. I don't know why but I had different impressions about Nighthawk at a Hi-Fi show in Old Windsor.

 
I don't know if you let your Nighthawks run/burn in for the 150 hours that AudioQuest recommends or not but I certainly wouldn't return them until you've listened to them after they've been played for at least that amount of time. As I've stated before, I listen to mine right out of the box and was certain that they would be going back as I found them to sound a little lifeless and lacking in the treble. The next day I started getting a head cold with so much sinus congestion that I couldn't hear highs/treble even from my main speaker setup. So, I decided to take AQ's advice and I played music, pink and brown noise through them non-stop for over a week. I did NOT listen to them while they were being burnt in, once my head cold cleared up I sat down and gave them another shot and was truly surprised by how open/spacious they sounded and they now had the treble that had been missing before.
 
As I did not listen to the NH's during that week or so that I let them play non-stop there's no way that I adjusted to their sound. I understand that some do not believe that any audio gear changes for better or worse by being burnt in yet I can only speak to the experiences I've had. Hell, I spent a lot of time during that cold trying to figure out what headphone I would purchase next once I had returned the Nighthawks. That's how sure I was that they'd be returned. 
 
If you've ever owned Magnepans you know that until you play them at or above normal listening levels for a couple weeks that they will sound like they lack bass...give them time and the panels loosen up a bit and the sound all comes together. Letting the headphones play non-stop for the recommended 150 hours costs you nothing so why not give it a shot. Afterwards they still may not be the headphones for you, that's fine, no one speaker, headphone or you name it, will please everyone. I've found that the NH's sound really nice even when powered by the FiiO X5 II yet they can handle up to 1.5 watts and in my opinion they open up even more when driven by a good desktop amp...they seem to like the extra juice.   IMO, YMMV, Results Not Typical, Consult your doctor before trying this or any other headphone.
 
Good luck! 

 

[Hachiko270296]

Of course AQ are going to recommend 150 hours of burn in! It's pure marking rubbish. I can't believe people really believe that. It takes me a good 5 mins to get used to the sound coming from other headphones then they sound good again but have to repeat the process. If you listen to any headphone you will adjust to the sound but depending on the FR it can take a bit longer. The NH are V shaped so they certainly need adjustment of you are coming from a flatter sound.

If you don't like the sound send them back and get something different. I've give. Them a fair run, I enjoy them. They just don't do well for first impressions or comparisons to other headphones. If you believe that burn in exist then that's fine, just don't push it on other people because there's no measurements that prove it exist. In my experience a headphone can sound a bit off in the first 30mins if it hasn't been played before but 150 hours? That's just silly, an hour max is more realistic.

 

[piaudio]

Listen to this at the store, I have a mixed impression if it will sound like sound are sitting closer to the performance on NightHawk
 
Is open headphones will sound perfect with these demo with excellent piano and clarity you never heard before? 
http://www.boganyi-piano.com/cd/sound-beyond-time/

 

[Klonatans]

   
I don't know if you let your Nighthawks run/burn in for the 150 hours that AudioQuest recommends or not but I certainly wouldn't return them until you've listened to them after they've been played for at least that amount of time. As I've stated before, I listen to mine right out of the box and was certain that they would be going back as I found them to sound a little lifeless and lacking in the treble. The next day I started getting a head cold with so much sinus congestion that I couldn't hear highs/treble even from my main speaker setup. So, I decided to take AQ's advice and I played music, pink and brown noise through them non-stop for over a week. I did NOT listen to them while they were being burnt in, once my head cold cleared up I sat down and gave them another shot and was truly surprised by how open/spacious they sounded and they now had the treble that had been missing before.
 
As I did not listen to the NH's during that week or so that I let them play non-stop there's no way that I adjusted to their sound. I understand that some do not believe that any audio gear changes for better or worse by being burnt in yet I can only speak to the experiences I've had. Hell, I spent a lot of time during that cold trying to figure out what headphone I would purchase next once I had returned the Nighthawks. That's how sure I was that they'd be returned. 
 
If you've ever owned Magnepans you know that until you play them at or above normal listening levels for a couple weeks that they will sound like they lack bass...give them time and the panels loosen up a bit and the sound all comes together. Letting the headphones play non-stop for the recommended 150 hours costs you nothing so why not give it a shot. Afterwards they still may not be the headphones for you, that's fine, no one speaker, headphone or you name it, will please everyone. I've found that the NH's sound really nice even when powered by the FiiO X5 II yet they can handle up to 1.5 watts and in my opinion they open up even more when driven by a good desktop amp...they seem to like the extra juice.   IMO, YMMV, Results Not Typical, Consult your doctor before trying this or any other headphone.
 
Good luck! 

 
Well, I think it's Nighthawk's overall sound signature and tonality that I cannot enjoy enough to justify keeping them. They are just too mid-bassy, too creamy for me and no "burn-in" can change it (I have never experienced any burn in effect in my life though I have left many HP playing all night long to give them more running time). I gave them another listen today and felt again that they just lacked clarity in mids too much. Besides they are probably already burned in as I bought them used in mint condition. What I don't understand is why my two weeks old impressions don't coincide with today's impressions (I quite liked the Nighthawk even with my AK100 Mk2).

 

[KLJTech]

Of course AQ are going to recommend 150 hours of burn in! It's pure marking rubbish. I can't believe people really believe that. It takes me a good 5 mins to get used to the sound coming from other headphones then they sound good again but have to repeat the process. If you listen to any headphone you will adjust to the sound but depending on the FR it can take a bit longer. The NH are V shaped so they certainly need adjustment of you are coming from a flatter sound.

If you don't like the sound send them back and get something different. I've give. Them a fair run, I enjoy them. They just don't do well for first impressions or comparisons to other headphones. If you believe that burn in exist then that's fine, just don't push it on other people because there's no measurements that prove it exist. In my experience a headphone can sound a bit off in the first 30mins if it hasn't been played before but 150 hours? That's just silly, an hour max is more realistic.

 
I can only speak to what I've heard with my own ears. I'm not pushing anything on anyone, simply stating what my experience was, your experience may well be different. If your think that burn-in is rubbish you may want to take it up with either Nelson Pass or John Curl at diyAudio or maybe Mike Moffat here at Head-fi. Any of those gentlemen are far more qualified than I to explain what happens during burn-in or in the case of DAC's leaving them on 24/7 to allow them to sound their best. 
 
Ultimately all that really matters is if "you" enjoy your music with the Nighthawks, if not I'd move on to another headphone. 

 

[Hachiko270296]

It doesn't matter who I speak to there isn't any proof it exist apart from people's word so it shouldn't even be considered. I remember Tyll did a blind test with a brand new pair of Q701 and a more used pair and he guessed correct which one was the newer one but he said it was very slight refinements that didn't show up on measurements.

I've sometimes had used pairs and new pairs of the same headphone abd the result has always been the same..a slight boom in the bass that just sounds a little out of place Or a little bit of tizz up top and this has always gone away after about 5 mins. I personally think after 1 hour you are getting the headphone.

Now people complain about the NH saying it's too recessed, bass heavy etc it's not going to stop being those things. Yes some refinements may need to happen but it's not like it turns into a whole new headphone. The biggest thing with the NH is can someone adjust to its bass to be able to enjoy the rest of the sound. Me personally I use the NH as a 2nd headphone because it's quite convenient and sometimes I love bass.

What people also don't think about is if the NH didn't have that huge bass, it would sound dry, tizzy because of the upper end so the bass really is helping them create the illusion of a smooth headphone.

 

[JMCIII]

Of course AQ are going to recommend 150 hours of burn in! It's pure marking rubbish. I can't believe people really believe that. It takes me a good 5 mins to get used to the sound coming from other headphones then they sound good again but have to repeat the process. If you listen to any headphone you will adjust to the sound but depending on the FR it can take a bit longer. The NH are V shaped so they certainly need adjustment of you are coming from a flatter sound.

If you don't like the sound send them back and get something different. I've give. Them a fair run, I enjoy them. They just don't do well for first impressions or comparisons to other headphones. If you believe that burn in exist then that's fine, just don't push it on other people because there's no measurements that prove it exist. In my experience a headphone can sound a bit off in the first 30mins if it hasn't been played before but 150 hours? That's just silly, an hour max is more realistic.

 
Gee, a manufacturer who DOESN'T want you to listen to their product right away...... Hummmmm, what's wrong with that picture? If burn-in wasn't important to them, they would want you to slip them on right away.
 
" If you believe that burn in exist then that's fine, just don't push it on other people because there's no measurements that prove it exist."
 
Two points here. First, I do believe in burn-in. In all my years as a reviewer I've heard far to many cases where it made a noticeable difference to dismiss it out of hand. Second, and far more importantly, there are no "scientific" measurements for much of what makes audio work, so what's your point? If science has/had all the answers, we could just look at measurements and graphs to pick out our systems. We can't and we don't, because "science" has yet to find ALL the measurements (and I doubt they ever will) that will tell us what any given piece sounds like.
 
But, I'm not going to tell you what to listen for. You have your priorities and we have ours. If yours work for you, great. If ours work for us, great. If we choose to pass on what works for us to others, don't tell them we're wrong, just make your point too and let the individual decide which way to go.

 

[Hachiko270296]

The mind is a powerful thing. Until there's proof it's all just talk.

 

[SearchOfSub]

I think when a good designer of a good dac/amp like Chord electronics' Hugo voiced their new headphone dac/amp Mojo (which is getting very good praise from owners) say to public it was voiced using Nighthawks and is recommended pairing from designer himself - this has alot more credibility than many naysayers on different forums. These guys make living off how music is supposed to sound, and I am sure they have tried many many more gears than we have.

 

[Hachiko270296]

That could easily be marketing, a deal between two company's. I've also not seen any evidence of them being used with the Nighthawk from Chord. Also have you not considered the fact the NH has issues with clarity and resolution due to the massive bass that Chord wanted to clean the sound out so to speak? So hey used the NH! All a possibility.

There's a reason it's so polarising. Every major reviewer, credible person has not rated the NH highly which is concerning for such an expensive headphone.

If people enjoy the NH, great. I'm one of those people but I'm not blind to its faults.

 

[leomitch]

That could easily be marketing, a deal between two company's. I've also not seen any evidence of them being used with the Nighthawk from Chord. Also have you not considered the fact the NH has issues with clarity and resolution due to the massive bass that Chord wanted to clean the sound out so to speak? So hey used the NH! All a possibility.

There's a reason it's so polarising. Every major reviewer, credible person has not rated the NH highly which is concerning for such an expensive headphone.

If people enjoy the NH, great. I'm one of those people but I'm not blind to its faults.

 
 
Has it ever occurred to you, that the reason you haven't heard from the most popular reviewers who make their living by their reviews, that they may be hesitating because a very positive review compared to the big flagship devices, may not be the best way to make the major makers happy. This could cost them dearly.
There is a tidal wave of positivity for the Nighthawks flowing across the land. All those people cannot be wrong mate. You say you enjoy them yourself, yet you keep on picking at this old scab of yours. It is possible that Skylar Gray has really come up with a new concept or at least improved on an old one that places the NH's in the higher echelon of headphones at a cheaper price. Why are you so strong to keep this up. You and one other pseudo-pro reviewer from YouTube are among the only ones picking away at this.
Your idea of collusion between two companies to voice a major product with the NH's may be true, but maybe the reason really is that Chord really is that impressed with the Nighthawks not that AudioQuest is paying them to schill  their headphones! Hmmm! Did I spell schill correctly. I am sure someone will correct me if I did!
Anyway, why not relax and enjoy the dang things or sell them, if you can't.
I have a feeling when the big time reviewers do get around to them, the review will be warm but feint praise in the final conclusion. My two cents worth.
 

Leo

 

[piaudio]

   
 
Has it ever occurred to you, that the reason you haven't heard from the most popular reviewers who make their living by their reviews, that they may be hesitating because a very positive review compared to the big flagship devices, may not be the best way to make the major makers happy. This could cost them dearly.
There is a tidal wave of positivity for the Nighthawks flowing across the land. All those people cannot be wrong mate. You say you enjoy them yourself, yet you keep on picking at this old scab of yours. It is possible that Skylar Gray has really come up with a new concept or at least improved on an old one that places the NH's in the higher echelon of headphones at a cheaper price. Why are you so strong to keep this up. You and one other pseudo-pro reviewer from YouTube are among the only ones picking away at this.
Your idea of collusion between two companies to voice a major product with the NH's may be true, but maybe the reason really is that Chord really is that impressed with the Nighthawks not that AudioQuest is paying them to schill  their headphones! Hmmm! Did I spell schill correctly. I am sure someone will correct me if I did!
Anyway, why not relax and enjoy the dang things or sell them, if you can't.
I have a feeling when the big time reviewers do get around to them, the review will be warm but feint praise in the final conclusion. My two cents worth.
 

Leo

 
 
I assume AudioQuest didn't sent headphones for selected parties reviews, that is no reviews. If that possible, loan me one. Beyerdynamic newest DT1770 Pro doesn't open for reviews and yet Flare Audio R2PRO reviewers has gained massive votes http://www.headfonia.com/review-flare-audio-r2a-r2pro although there are QA issue, SQ wise is an unforgettable experience.

 

[Hachiko270296]

Don't be ridiculous. There's as much negative impressions as there are positive. I have found the people who understand sound and have experience with better gear have been the most critical. I have also found most NH owners to be the most insecure about there purchase.

You have to accept that a headphone with a controversial FR is going to get bad points. You also show a lot of insecurity Leo by putting down a reviewer on YouTube that probably is more credible than yourself. My impressions won't change sucked out mids are a wonky upper end is not going to go away. Honestly as someone who's owned 50+ headphones including Audezes and the HD800, if the NH didn't have the bass it has, I'd get rid of it. That bass masks up all its faults.