[Chefano]

Thanks Jude and Bobeau.
That was worrying me! 

 

[judmarc]

Quote:

Only for computer use? Not for use with portable players?

 
If it delivers a PCM stream between 16/44.1 and 24/96 through a usb port, and has the inboard drivers to recognize the Dragonfly (which would usually mean a computer, but could conceivably also apply to a portable player with an operating system), and it delivers sufficient power through the USB port (or you could connect a powered USB hub), then my assumption would be that you could use the Dragonfly with it.

 

[Lan647]

Could any Dragonfly owner who has a Samsung Galaxy, an iPhone or other try to match them?

 

[bixby]

Quote:

 
It it using a line out - the jack does double duty.  With headphones it uses the amp, as a line out the head-amp is bypassed.  This was designed to be used as a DAC only.  The majority of folks over in ComputerAudiophile are using this for this purpose to drive speakers.
 
As Gordon wrote on CA: "I did a ton of work on the output stage to make it compatible with both line and headphone. I think it works really well with both as it has more drive than required for line and easily 2x more drive for headphones."

Probably does work well with both, but I see no way the unit could shut off or bypass its amp since it uses the same output jack for both headphones and line out.  The fact is you are going to get the detriments of a double amped signal even if it is relatively benign.

 

[SoupRKnowva]

Quote:

Probably does work well with both, but I see no way the unit could shut off or bypass its amp since it uses the same output jack for both headphones and line out.  The fact is you are going to get the detriments of a double amped signal even if it is relatively benign.

 
You do realize that pretty much every dac out there has an amp right? no dac chip has the current output to drive well anything. This ones amp im pretty sure just has some beefier buffers so its capable of driving headphone loads, and a built in volume control. So what im trying to say is that if you set it to max volume, so youre getting max S/N numbers, that you arent really getting any "effects of double amping"

 

[bixby]

You know you are correct!
 
Now that I think about it, not like a separate dac and a separate amp, it proabably does not have an impact with the volume all the way up.  Yes, the dac chip would go to a current amp stage that would be attenuated for headphone use.  Assuming a line out target of about 2 volts which is pretty common, the attenuator would just bring the voltage down so a heapdhone could use it without blasting.
 
thanks for pointing out the errors in my thinking.

 

[LizardKing1]

Quote:

You do realize that pretty much every dac out there has an amp right? no dac chip has the current output to drive well anything. This ones amp im pretty sure just has some beefier buffers so its capable of driving headphone loads, and a built in volume control. So what im trying to say is that if you set it to max volume, so youre getting max S/N numbers, that you arent really getting any "effects of double amping"

 
But with the volume all the way, being used as a line-out, wouldn't the output voltage be so high that it would clip pretty much anything?

 

[bixby]

no, most line outs strive for about 2 volts output and the input voltage sensitivity of most amps are designed with that figure in mind.  I doubt it will be causing clipping even at full voltage.  

 

[bobeau]

Quote:

no, most line outs strive for about 2 volts output and the input voltage sensitivity of most amps are designed with that figure in mind.  I doubt it will be causing clipping even at full voltage.  

 
FWIW, the O2 amp was designed to be used either with standard 2 volt line (low gain) or the much lower output found in many DAPs, which I believe is set by default at 6.5x gain.  It tends to clip at high gain with standard voltage.

 

[raizetcity]

hi guys  do you think the dragonfly can match with the burson amp ha 160?could it be a good combo in terms of vocals ?details ?i am using the sen hd 650 and the ultrasone signature pro .
i must admit i am really exited about the section dac it's so tinny and very affordable.i owned already the fostex hp a3 :  i am curious about the improvement about this dac
 

 

[jacknight]

Quote:

 
I just checked, and mine looks just like that.

hei jude, is this dac really that good? how if we compare DF with something like audinst mx1 or fiio e17? is DF definitely a better dac/amp? 

 

[longbowbbs]

Quote:

hei jude, is this dac really that good? how if we compare DF with something like audinst mx1 or fiio e17? is DF definitely a better dac/amp? 

I now have 250+ hours on the DF. I really like it. However, when I compare it head to head with mu DMPlus I still prefer the DMPlus. For over twice the price I should. Smoother for sure. I am using my HD650's with Toxic Cable Silver Poison's and either MacMini w/ Amarra 2.41 or PC>JRiver 17 both with uncompressed either AIFF or WAV/FLAC. Both beat the straight iPod Classic 7 with all AIFF direct to the Senn's.  As always YMMV....

 

[bobeau]

Quote:

hei jude, is this dac really that good? how if we compare DF with something like audinst mx1 or fiio e17? is DF definitely a better dac/amp? 

 
I have an E17 and compared them back to back quite a bit (even running the DF -> E17 using the E17's amp).. the DF as a DAC is a solid class, maybe even 2 above.  I thought it even had a bit of an edge over the ODAC which uses the same chip... it fixes up some of the latter's somewhat edgy tendencies.  I speculate this may be due to Gordon's async implementation, a tighter smd packaging, and lack of cable.

 

[longbowbbs]

Quote:

 
I have an E17 and compared them back to back quite a bit (even running the DF -> E17 using the E17's amp).. the DF as a DAC is a solid class, maybe even 2 above.  I thought it even had a bit of an edge over the ODAC which uses the same chip... it fixes up some of the latter's somewhat edgy tendencies.  I speculate this may be due to Gordon's async implementation, a tighter smd packaging, and lack of cable.

The DF has really smoothed out after I went past the 200 hour mark. I was traveling for 5 days last week so I left the JRiver running hi-res files for 5 straight days. Nice way to grab 120 hours for burn in. Came back to an improved soundstage and a smoother delivery. I am liking the DF very much!  

 

[bobeau]

Quote:

The DF has really smoothed out after I went past the 200 hour mark. I was traveling for 5 days last week so I left the JRiver running hi-res files for 5 straight days. Nice way to grab 120 hours for burn in. Came back to an improved soundstage and a smoother delivery. I am liking the DF very much!  

 
Awesome!  I may pick one up again if others can independently confirm what the output impedance is (I guess Chefano did this and I concur... don't understand why a garden variety mm would be so crazy off) and the tendencies I heard dissipate with burn-in.  In my case it was overly smooth