[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaloS /img/forum/go_quote.gif The treble recession AND roll-off on l3000 do not bother you? Cause that was one of the 2 of the main issues for me when I heard it out of various amplifiers.

The treble sounds neither rolled-off nor recessed to me. I do think the W5000 has better treble, as it is a bit smoother yet has more sparkle. But the L3000 has the killer bass, plus superb midrange timbre and surprising midrange detail/separation.

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Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've always wondered why people don't claim them to be like the HE-90 and OII as all arounders. They always associate the L3000s with rock. Do they also do classical, jazz and everything else well?

Personally, I would not consider the HE90 or OII all-arounds, as 'stats just don't have the bass slam needed for rock or electronica, IMO. For orchestral, jazz, and other acoustic music, they are fabulous.

I'm not sure that any of the uber-high end cans are true all-arounders though. The bass roll-off kills the K1000 for certain types of music. The R10 is a bit bass-light as well (at least those I've heard). The Qualia can do both acoustic and amplified/electronic music great, but is overly critical/demanding for genres which are less well recorded. The L3000 and Ed9 both have somewhat limited soundstages for airy acoustic music.

Of course, this evaluation is somewhat overly critical, in that I'm generally not getting after these headphones for not being good, rather not being as exceptional as others can be with certain music. In my mind the true king of headphones should be at the head of the field in every regard, and at least of all those I've heard, it doesn't exist. Of course I've not heard an Omega I

I'd think one would need an uber-bass headphone and an uber-soundstage phone to have the high end really well covered.

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Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was listening today the whole day King Crimson, one of your favorite bands, and trust me that you need to try the Edition 9 with them...if you listen them with the Edition, not sure if you ever will look at the Grados later on...

I'd really like to have the E9 for an in-house comparison with the L3000. The two certainly have the most incredible bass of any headphones I've heard. But the question is, which is the true bass king? You know anyone who can spare their E9 for a week or two, Sovkiller?

 

[humanflyz]

I think if you build the right system around any of the top-tier cans, all of them can become pretty good at every genre you throw at them. Sure, my K1000s don't plumb the bass depth, but on my current system it's still very very listenable to stuff with very low bass like Massive Attack. Have I heard better? Yes, but not enough for me to get that something better, i.e., L3000s or PS-1s.

So I guess my point is that it is possible to live with just one top-tier headphone provided that you really put into the effort to build a system around it.

 

[Killercrush]

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Pak Yeah the HP-1000 series (HP-1, HP-2, HP-3) are pretty darn good for rock. Particularly when it's recorded well.

Ditto for the SR-100/SR-200/SR-300 series w/ HP1000 drivers.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by humanflyz /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think if you build the right system around any of the top-tier cans, all of them can become pretty good at every genre you throw at them. Sure, my K1000s don't plumb the bass depth, but on my current system it's still very very listenable to stuff with very low bass like Massive Attack. Have I heard better? Yes, but not enough for me to get that something better, i.e., L3000s or PS-1s. So I guess my point is that it is possible to live with just one top-tier headphone provided that you really put into the effort to build a system around it.

I don't disagree. The L3000 is plenty good for orchestral music for me, but it's not elite in that regard. If your standard is playing all genres well, nearly any of the high-end cans fit the bill. But doing an elite job on all is another matter

 

[humanflyz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't disagree. The L3000 is plenty good for orchestral music for me, but it's not elite in that regard. If your standard is playing all genres well, nearly any of the high-end cans fit the bill. But doing an elite job on all is another matter

Yeah, I just don't think it's possible to be elite on all things

 

[jjcha]

Ah, yet another fine acquisition. Quite the collection you're building there -- the L3000 is truly the pinnacle of the audio-technica line, and surprisingly versatile. It's not often that a headphone other than Grado can be said to be great with rock, but this is one of them. I've always loved the intimate soundstaging (versus the expansive one from the K 1000 or electrostats) that the L3k can give -- personally, it's what I would reach for (if I still had one) when I want a semblance of the intimacy of a nice jazz or tight rock/pop club.

Best regards,

-Jason

 

[J-Pak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd really like to have the E9 for an in-house comparison with the L3000. The two certainly have the most incredible bass of any headphones I've heard. But the question is, which is the true bass king? You know anyone who can spare their E9 for a week or two, Sovkiller?

You're asking the guy that has two of them

I agree there is no truly perfect all around headphone.

As for the L3000 on classical, it obviously performs better than the K1000 when real low bass is required. IE Telarc's 1812 on the L3000 was really something I'd never heard before save for my speakers.

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Originally Posted by Killercrush /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ditto for the SR-100/SR-200/SR-300 series w/ HP1000 drivers.

I think the aluminum enclosure rather than plastic would really bring out more out of the drivers. I'm comparing the L3000 favorably to other world class headphones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjcha /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ah, yet another fine acquisition. Quite the collection you're building there -- the L3000 is truly the pinnacle of the audio-technica line, and surprisingly versatile. It's not often that a headphone other than Grado can be said to be great with rock, but this is one of them. I've always loved the intimate soundstaging (versus the expansive one from the K 1000 or electrostats) that the L3k can give -- personally, it's what I would reach for (if I still had one) when I want a semblance of the intimacy of a nice jazz or tight rock/pop club. Best regards, -Jason

I can't agree more Jason. It's handling the smaller jazz ensembles, sitar and solo violin with ease.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer /img/forum/go_quote.gif The treble sounds neither rolled-off nor recessed to me. I do think the W5000 has better treble, as it is a bit smoother yet has more sparkle. But the L3000 has the killer bass, plus superb midrange timbre and surprising midrange detail/separation. Personally, I would not consider the HE90 or OII all-arounds, as 'stats just don't have the bass slam needed for rock or electronica, IMO. For orchestral, jazz, and other acoustic music, they are fabulous. I'm not sure that any of the uber-high end cans are true all-arounders though. The bass roll-off kills the K1000 for certain types of music. The R10 is a bit bass-light as well (at least those I've heard). The Qualia can do both acoustic and amplified/electronic music great, but is overly critical/demanding for genres which are less well recorded. The L3000 and Ed9 both have somewhat limited soundstages for airy acoustic music. Of course, this evaluation is somewhat overly critical, in that I'm generally not getting after these headphones for not being good, rather not being as exceptional as others can be with certain music. In my mind the true king of headphones should be at the head of the field in every regard, and at least of all those I've heard, it doesn't exist. Of course I've not heard an Omega I I'd think one would need an uber-bass headphone and an uber-soundstage phone to have the high end really well covered. I'd really like to have the E9 for an in-house comparison with the L3000. The two certainly have the most incredible bass of any headphones I've heard. But the question is, which is the true bass king? You know anyone who can spare their E9 for a week or two, Sovkiller?

I was just making reference to the comparison between the Grados and the Edition 9, but after those beautiful pictures he posted, not sure I will reconsider to listen them again....LOL...

I agree with your observations in general of the other cans (K-1000, electrostatics, Qualia) but not about the R-19 or the L3000...The R-10 to me is magic, hands down....

Now the two or three times I have listened the L3K, I did feel the highs to be a little rolled off, and the bass a little intrusive, same as the other poster here...and trust me that my only interest in going to that meeting in NY at that time was to listen the L3000, as they were availalbe at that time easily and I was desperate lookig for a replacement hepadhone for my "out of print" CD3K, but honestly, I did not liked the sound I heard out of those...but maybe was the system, the amp the synergy, as usual in meetings the conditions are not the best...I would like to reconsider them, I'm a fan of the Japanese sound and look, and finese....in heapdhones, at least....

J-Pak, sorry man I forgot to take a second to prasie these nice pics, I just save them in my folder of audio beauties...LOL....

 

[J-Pak]

I think you guys will be a little surprised when you check the EXIF data on those pics, hehe. (A hint that camera cost me $90 on clearance).

 

[granodemostasa]

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Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why getting into transformer coupled amps, while you can have now some OTL more cleaner sounding amps that will drive the low Z hepadhones with authority (Zana Deux for example)??? As Dr. Gilmore, and others audio designers agree, the transformers belong to the PSU and nowhere else...of course there are cases in which you do not have any other choise, but in this case you now do... I was listening today the whole day King Crimson, one of your favorite bands, and trust me that you need to try the Edition 9 with them...if you listen them with the Edition, not sure if you ever will look at the Grados later on...

I don't think that the ZD would be a good idea for the K1000. No, I know the ZD would suck on the K1000... I've tried it.

Great pictures and all. I'm glad you have them... and I'm awaiting the result of a ED9 v. L3K shoot out.

on the other issues: in all frankness, i have not heard any can that I would consider a better "all arounder" than the HD650 (which says alot!). All these high end cans are either high maintenance or have one or two fatal flaws that demand that I would continue to own another headphone. Example: HE90 lacks slam/impact, weight. K1000 lacks bass. R10 has a bit too much distortion for some recordings. Qualia lacks the warmth to make some recordings beautiful. OII has the same problems as the HE90, with a lack of euphonic beauty added. the L3K and PS1 lack soundstage. HP-2 is a little dry. My point is that while i do admire these cans, and I really want to own one or all of them, i would not sell my HD650 if i owned any one of them.

 

[Icarium]

HD650 especially balanced is definitely a top notch headphone. Ho ho I might have once agreed with you about the lacking of warmth with the Qualias, but jesus some of these tubes that Mikhail sent me has changed that perception greatly ;p (Currently rocking a Sylvania 12AV7 in the driver position with Hytron 6BL7 GTAs in the output at 300 V).

Of course the L3000 doesn't need tube crutches to have an amazingly organic sound. Certainly with this amp I don't hear any rolled off/thin highs or whatever the exact complaint is. I've heard those that have that issue have solved it with an [AK]Zip recabling.

 

[purk]

J-Pak & Iron_dreamer,

Congratulations...and welcome to the club. The L3000 is a very remarkable headphones. You might want to get the DHA3000 for them.

Quote:

But the question is, which is the true bass king? You know anyone who can spare their E9 for a week or two, Sovkiller?

I think that title belongs to the HE90. I believe the HE90s have the perfect bass response. Amazing extension with excellent articulation.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by humanflyz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, I just don't think it's possible to be elite on all things

But you can't stop from dreaming about it! Or else how would man have ever gone to the moon?

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Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was just making reference to the comparison between the Grados and the Edition 9, but after those beautiful pictures he posted, not sure I will reconsider to listen them again....LOL... I agree with your observations in general of the other cans (K-1000, electrostatics, Qualia) but not about the R-19 or the L3000...The R-10 to me is magic, hands down....

I'd agree that the R10 can be magic, I just don't think it's universal magic (if such a thing is even possible). But such is the crux of my last few posts. Of course I've also not heard the supposedly more bass later-production R10's, so perhaps this is hope for universal magic!

BTW when should I expect that shipment of Ed9's?

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Originally Posted by granodemostasa /img/forum/go_quote.gif on the other issues: in all frankness, i have not heard any can that I would consider a better "all arounder" than the HD650 (which says alot!). All these high end cans are either high maintenance or have one or two fatal flaws that demand that I would continue to own another headphone. Example: HE90 lacks slam/impact, weight. K1000 lacks bass. R10 has a bit too much distortion for some recordings. Qualia lacks the warmth to make some recordings beautiful. OII has the same problems as the HE90, with a lack of euphonic beauty added. the L3K and PS1 lack soundstage. HP-2 is a little dry. My point is that while i do admire these cans, and I really want to own one or all of them, i would not sell my HD650 if i owned any one of them.

Very understandable and reasonable flaws you've pointed out for all the uberphones. But they are all more detailed/resolving/transparent, to me at least, than the HD650. But perhaps trading a smidge of those qualities for consistency isn't such a bad thing, eh?

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Originally Posted by purk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Congratulations...and welcome to the club. The L3000 is a very remarkable headphones. You might want to get the DHA3000 for them. I think that title belongs to the HE90. I believe the HE90s have the perfect bass response. Amazing extension with excellent articulation.

As much as the DHA3000 looks great, I have an ideal system in mind for the leather boys, and it's shockingly more expensive. Too bad the DHA3000 doesn't have any analog inputs.

I've heard the HE90's with the HEV90, ES1, and KGSS, all backed by great sources, but I just can't agree with the idea that their bass is perfect (is any headphones', though?) Even with the hardest hitting amp (KGSS), the HE90's bass does not attain the level of slam and energy that even the mid-high-end dynamic phones do. The Omega II does better in this respect, though the HE90's bass is the more textured sounding of the two. Perhaps the HE90's bass is perfect, for music that demands merely the presence of bass, rather than the energy of it (though one would wonder how the two qualities differ, practically speaking.)

 

[Icarium]

Yeah I am still a great believer in the L3K's as top bass. The edition 9s have damned good bass, but there's this reverb quality to the L3K bass that sounds utterly natural.

As for the HE90 bass? I dunno, I thought it wasn't as bad as I've heard that Electrostats can be. I certainly thought it was good, but I don't know if I would try and claim it is the best.

Now, the R10 late model bass is definitely more impressive than I would have thought. Hearing it on a bass heavy track off the Apache I want to say it came close to the L3Ks... but that might have been just volume/meet conditions talking. I only heard it for a couple of minute. But still, even if I can place it at the L3K level it is no slouch.

Interesting though Jpak that you feel the L3K has a bit more bass than the HD650 (Quantity). My take is different though I am comparing balanced to single ended here, I felt the HD650s have way more on quantity but definitely lose out on quality. Perhaps it is just the balancing though. I wouldn't put it at overwhelming though.

 

[granodemostasa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very understandable and reasonable flaws you've pointed out for all the uberphones. But they are all more detailed/resolving/transparent, to me at least, than the HD650. But perhaps trading a smidge of those qualities for consistency isn't such a bad thing, eh?

Of course they are, otherwise they wouldn't be "uperphones." each one of them is a better performing can than the HD650.. and i dream of the qualia constantly... but I would never have "just" a qualia, i'd have to keep a 650 or 600 around to make that relationship work.

about the HE90's bass... It is really perfect for classical and jazz. the problem really lies when i put a "decemberists" CD into the tray... soon enough my mind starts to wonder and i end up looking at the gear rather than listening to it. Now, put it on a balanced HD650 or L3k and such a scene would never occur.

Also, the HD650's bass has a wide ability to vary between balanced set ups. On daba's Dynamight it is tight, deep and impactful... to the point of sounding like an HD600 with "weight." On the B52 the bass was more overwhelming in quantity than in quality. I don't know how it sounds on the rudistor yet.. and i would love to compare it with the other two amps in town (GS-X and dynamight)