[maguire]

Changed my order   for REf7.1.....going for USB version, thanks Macrog

 

[preproman]

In ordering the 7.1,  Will it be best to:
 
Order it with the USB option - or.
 
Order it without the USB option and order the DI-DSP along with it?

 

[doobooloo]

The TE8802 --> direct I2S injection is actually surprisingly good. In my NFB-1WM I greatly prefer the TE8802 input versus SPDIF inputs. The USB version also can take 192/24, while the SPDIF is limited to 96k.
 
What could potentially be the best of both worlds is ordering the Ref 7.1 with I2S input in place of USB, and order the DI with I2S output option. That way you get the isolation benefits of having an outboard DI and eliminate the SPDIF conversion process. But, Kingwa says I2S transmission is very cable sensitive so depending on your implementation it may or may not outperform the integrated TE8802 option.
 
I say go with the integrated USB version... you can always easily mod it into an I2S version later to experiment.

 

[preproman]

Quote:

The TE8802 --> direct I2S injection is actually surprisingly good. In my NFB-1WM I greatly prefer the TE8802 input versus SPDIF inputs. The USB version also can take 192/24, while the SPDIF is limited to 96k.
 
What could potentially be the best of both worlds is ordering the Ref 7.1 with I2S input in place of USB, and order the DI with I2S output option. That way you get the isolation benefits of having an outboard DI and eliminate the SPDIF conversion process. But, Kingwa says I2S transmission is very cable sensitive so depending on your implementation it may or may not outperform the integrated TE8802 option.
 
I say go with the integrated USB version... you can always easily mod it into an I2S version later to experiment.

Speaking of mods..
 
I wonder if I can mod the DAC to include this:
 
 

exaU2I Multichannel Asynchronous USB to I2S Interface

 
http://www.exadevices.com/Home.aspx
 

 

[doobooloo]

I've been seriously considering the Exa I2S as well. If your Ref 7 is already USB-enabled then you have an I2S input that you can tap into so modding should be very straightforward. TE8802 uses 150mA of 3.3V from the DAC's PSU so the power requirement works for the Exa as well. If you have the SPDIF-only version, Kingwa started selling I2S input mod kits that will enable two additional I2S inputs for your Ref 7 series DACs so you don't have to disable the SPDIF inputs to get I2S directly into your DSP-1 board.

I modded my DSP-1 on my Ref 1 to permanently override the SPDIF input with I2S since it only has one input set anyway (it's not selectable from the front panel) but for Ref 7/8/9 and later with selectable inputs the mod kit will be great to preserve the multi-input functionality.

 

[RedBull]

^ the second option. I mean with usb module outside re 7.1.

 

[doobooloo]

Quote:

^ the second option. I mean with usb module outside re 7.1.

 
I'm assuming this is in response to the earlier question:
 
"In ordering the 7.1,  Will it be best to:
 
Order it with the USB option - or.
 
Order it without the USB option and order the DI-DSP along with it?"
 
 
Have you compared the two with the new TE8802 module inside the DAC feeding I2S direct to the DSP-1?

 

[preproman]

OK,
 
So if I understand it right.  Order the USB option.  Get the eaxU2I board. Replace the current USB option with the exaU2I board.  This way I can still have the input selection work - is this correct?
 
If so this would be great.

 

[doobooloo]

Or you can save a few bucks and order the I2S output option instead if you're set on getting the Exa. But it might be a cheap option to be able to compare the TE8802 vs Exa or just to have a cheap backup USB-->I2S board.

 

[RedBull]

Quote:

I'm assuming this is in response to the earlier question:
 
"In ordering the 7.1,  Will it be best to:
Order it with the USB option - or.
Order it without the USB option and order the DI-DSP along with it?"
 
Have you compared the two with the new TE8802 module inside the DAC feeding I2S direct to the DSP-1?

 
Yes, you are right, I was replying to that question, my bad.  Sorry, I was replying from my mobile phone, navigation is a pain.
Nope, I haven't tried that, I don't usually mod things, I leave it as it is, except my Fostex T50RP, I 'mod' (change) the pad 

 
When I ordered, I asked Kingwa if he can stuff in my RE 7.1 with the new TE8802, he said he can, but he recommend me to have it out of the DAC for better sound. 
I trust him as he has a good reputation as an honest person (not only asked customer to buy buy and buy his product).
He said it won't affect the sound if I add an extra SE output though, so I have it done.
 
In fact, I have 'difficulties' ordering my RE7.1.  He keep pushing me away for buying it, he keep recommending his DAC19 if I don't intent to use balance connection. 
But then I asked him back, for SE connection, is RE7.1 and DAC19 the same?  he said RE7.1 still better, so I insist to get my RE7.1 !!!! 

 

[doobooloo]

Quote:

 
Yes, you are right, I was replying to that question, my bad.  Sorry, I was replying from my mobile phone, navigation is a pain.
Nope, I haven't tried that, I don't usually mod things, I leave it as it is, except my Fostex T50RP, I 'mod' (change) the pad 

 
When I ordered, I asked Kingwa if he can stuff in my RE 7.1 with the new TE8802, he said he can, but he recommend me to have it out of the DAC for better sound. 
I trust him as he has a good reputation as an honest person (not only asked customer to buy buy and buy his product).
He said it won't affect the sound if I add an extra SE output though, so I have it done.
 
In fact, I have 'difficulties' ordering my RE7.1.  He keep pushing me away for buying it, he keep recommending his DAC19 if I don't intent to use balance connection. 
But then I asked him back, for SE connection, is RE7.1 and DAC19 the same?  he said RE7.1 still better, so I insist to get my RE7.1 !!!! 

 
I agree with you wholeheartedly on his reputation and trusting him - and that he's really an honest person. These days I exchange multiple emails with him almost on a daily basis about nitty gritty questions about his products and he's always quick to respond with detailed answers - not many manufacturers can claim they can do this!
 
Anyway, he told me the same thing too about how the DI would be better than the internal TE8802:
 

[size=10.5pt]And I think the RE7.1 with a  DI is better than RE7.1 built in USB, because the DI have isolation output can separate the GND between PC and RE7.1 avoid disturb.[/size]

 
 
And I can see the positives of having isolated outputs that separate the ground between PC and DAC, and the benefits of having separate power supplies as well. However, when I tested my NFB-1WM with the TE8802 and SPDIF, there was so much more detail retrieval with the TE8802 that led to much more immediately realistic textures of instruments... and I wasn't using a shabby SPDIF converter either, I was using the highly-praised (and reasonably expensive) Audiophilleo 2 as the SPDIF device.
 
Of course, this performance difference may translate differently to the Ref 7 series since there's an added layer of DSP-1 before the data reaches the DAC chips, but I am quite convinced of the merits of having as direct an injection of musical data into the DAC chips as possible. Think about it this way:
 
TE8802 --> I2S (very short cable) --> DAC
      --- or ---
TE8802 --> SPDIF (varying degrees of cable, connectors, and lead wires) --> SPDIF RECEIVER --> I2S --> DAC
 
Even if the SPDIF connection (cable reflections, impedance, etc) is perfect and completely jitter-free, the SPDIF receivers add their own jitter (50ps on paper) when translating SPDIF signals to I2S. Even Kingwa says that the SPDIF receivers sound different (WM8804 is warmer than DIR9001) - why? Clearly, even though those two chips are really the top state-of-the-art receivers, and especially WM8804 with their buffering and what not claim to be jitter-immune, they all seem to be adding something to the sound, to sound different from each other. So, why have that additional layer at all in the digital signal chain?
 
Which is why I think the Exa I2S is brilliant as a high-end USB transport that only focuses on I2S... and the relatively inexpensive TE8802 as I tested really isn't bad at all either. Sometimes, I think keeping things simple and pure is the best way to go.
 
Anyway, really, for $60 extra bucks on a close to $2k DAC is a cheap and potentially superior option and should be a no-brainer for anyone thinking about the Ref 7.1. Worst case, even if you got the Ref 7.1 with USB you can always get the DI and run USB that way too if you somehow enjoy the sound signature of that setup versus the integrated TE8802 option... but not the other way around.

 

[kschiu]

Exadevices told me that the I2S cable should be less than 10 cm.  so if you consider all the cables internally+externally, it's difficult to stay within that limit.
 
Based on the posts here I think Kingwa also indicates that the performance is affected by the cable and it might not be as good either.
 
So I think the internal option makes more sense.
 
Do you know if the R7.1 can be equipped with the USB and an I2S input at the same time?

 

[kr0gg]

Why don't you buy the DI-DSP and use the i2s output which it has?

 

[kschiu]

Well, based on EXAdevices' recommendation (George literally told me not to consider putting EXAu2i in an external box), and also from Kingwa's website:

( I2S传输需要注意传输线的品质，长度与空间摆放）
( 由于I2S传输受到多种影响，DI的I2S输出没有保证服务）

Modify with I2S output :
( The wire length 100MM)
( 3.3V level ,  we can't guarantee the I2S output can cooperate with all I2S input devices.
( The I2S transmit want to take care the transmit cable  )
( Based on the limit of the I2S transmit ,the I2S output of DI have not guarantee )

What Kingwa means is that the quality, length and placement (interpreted from the Chinese text) of the I2S cable really matters. If you search for "i2s cable length" then you will see tons of discussion about it.  the general idea I got out of them is that if the cable is longer than 100mm and if it is not LVDS (for example, PS-Audio), it becomes very noisy.  so IMO even if the signal is cleaner from the beginning, it can be worse after a poor I2S connection.
 
So I prefer the internal options, modded or not.
 
Disclaimer:  I don't know what I'm talking about cos I'm not an EE. 

 

[maguire]

This is my first forray into Audio gd. ( and certainly not the last)
 
Finally picked mine up Yesterday. Wow this thing.....MyGOODNESS ......is totally mad.......I have not stopped listening to my Music since...
. And I am only really running it without its full potential.
 
To Describe, ill paint this picture for ya.  Its like someone opened the door of the closet took me out and sat me down in a leather recliner. Music has just come alive.
 
Kingwa you are an absolute genius!!!!!
 
Also....  I want toThank you guys here for  pointing me in the right direction.