[tll]

 
Quote:

I´m actually still using the stock Canare BNC cable... With the ACSS output (#2 BNC on CD7-FV) the cable doesn´t matter as much as normally. Did you find large improvements with your new cable?

My system is all ACSS, from CD to power amp. Using #2 BNC as well.
The improvement in using xv ultra is not just sound of different "taste". It really lift up everything significantly. In comparing to xv, the canare is dull and boring.
I have also tried out some ebay pure silver based digital cable, better than the canare but no way near the xv ultra in terms of dynamic, smoothness and natural.
My friend told me the audience au24 digital is even sound more natural with piano.

 

[Currawong]

SP Wild: You're lucky to HAVE an optical input. When I ordered the Ref 1, Kingwa refused to add an input! He didn't want to send me anything but the best he could create, and certainly not compromised by adding switches in the digital section.  I feel very lucky to have the Ref 3 though. I can't help wondering how much better the CD-7 is, but I received upgrades for the DSP in the Ref 3 as well as the Ref 1 and the difference was astounding.

 

[vrln]

Quote:

 
Quote:

I´m actually still using the stock Canare BNC cable... With the ACSS output (#2 BNC on CD7-FV) the cable doesn´t matter as much as normally. Did you find large improvements with your new cable?

My system is all ACSS, from CD to power amp. Using #2 BNC as well.
The improvement in using xv ultra is not just sound of different "taste". It really lift up everything significantly. In comparing to xv, the canare is dull and boring.
I have also tried out some ebay pure silver based digital cable, better than the canare but no way near the xv ultra in terms of dynamic, smoothness and natural.
My friend told me the audience au24 digital is even sound more natural with piano.

Interesting... I´ll definately try switching it at some point then, but I need to buy a power supply filter outlet first Oh and by the way, I did some testing with a HD 650... I´m in love with its rolled off treble, I think the LCD-2 is made for me (it should arrive tomorrow!). Even if I am disappointed with the Audeze, I´ll sell the HD 800 and get a HD 650 instead
 
Currawong: on the chinese Audio-gd forums Kingwa has said (at least that´s what a chinese friend told me) that he recommends the single input version of the REF7 if other inputs aren´t needed because it sounds a little bit better (shorter signal path). So that same model of thinking is still going strong, he just added the many inputs due to popular demand  

 

[SP Wild]

Quote:

CD7FV sounds a bit like high definition vinyl without the noise if you ask me Extremely smooth and well textured, with a rock solid ultrastable soundstage. In a way different league than the sound from the Audio-gd Digital Interface. Huge upgrade from my previous (cheap but good for the price) Little Dot CD transport. While the DSP-1 can remove jitter, it´s still very transport dependant.
 
The CD7 is also quite imposing to look at, 14kg and larger than the REF7. If you go for it, you´ll be tempted to catch the last Pokemon though (Phoenix) to complete the ACSS rig I can highly recommend the CD7-FV. It has an ACSS SPDIF output that is made for the REF7 and sounds great without horribly expensive cables. Amazing synergy as expected. It´s the ultimate transport for the DAC.
 

I'm not sure what to do regarding transports at this stage.  Do I go for the DI with lesser jitter management than the CD7, but with the convenience of USB and music library access?  Or do I go for the CD7 with superior jitter management, but I have to go back to "dinosaur" inconvenient CDs?
 
I haven't even touched on the issue of coax cable quality, only using cheapy cables, but I won't consider coax cables until I figure out where I want to go with transports.  This is the problem with high end...the deeper you go the deeper it gets.  It's like trying to understand women, what you learn from them is that there is so much more you haven't learned.


Quote:

SP Wild: You're lucky to HAVE an optical input. When I ordered the Ref 1, Kingwa refused to add an input! He didn't want to send me anything but the best he could create, and certainly not compromised by adding switches in the digital section.  I feel very lucky to have the Ref 3 though. I can't help wondering how much better the CD-7 is, but I received upgrades for the DSP in the Ref 3 as well as the Ref 1 and the difference was astounding.

I wonder how the REF3 compares to the DI and CD7? 
 
Yeah, I guess I'm quite lucky to get multiple inputs.  I read the ENTIRE ref 1 thread AFTER I purchased the 7...then I read the entire Phoenix thread AFTER I purchased the Phoenix.  So I understand the backstory to these products.  It was very entertaining to say the least!
 
What got me was people's whining about the Phoenix heat output on the PSU.  Don't people realise that having regulators bolted onto the chassis is far superior cooling for the transistors than on board heatsinks.  There is far greater surface area on the chassis...the chassis getting hot is a GOOD thing...that heat is what was removed from the transistors.  The only better way of removing heat is to have an internal fan, not ideal...or offboard heatsink...adds to manufacturing complexity and costs.
 
Also I noticed how some people have reservations about Reference dacs having the AC input straight under the digital processors...I guess that Kingwa being and analogue output and PSU man, less so a computer wizz...he felt that the DSP could rectify interference better than having potential interference right at the ouput, where it can be harder to remove...his analogue stage is kept so far apart and so unadulterated...even the RCA are kept far apart...this is dual mono to the MAX.  The only definitive better option would be to place the power input at the front...but that would be ridiculous.
 
The more I understand elements of good circuits, the more I am impressed with Kingwa's design philosophy and ideologies.  I'd be quite happy for my future systems to be built on Audio GD...I have a lot of faith in his engineering model.

 

[SP Wild]

 
Quote:

Quote:

 
Quote:

I´m actually still using the stock Canare BNC cable... With the ACSS output (#2 BNC on CD7-FV) the cable doesn´t matter as much as normally. Did you find large improvements with your new cable?

My system is all ACSS, from CD to power amp. Using #2 BNC as well.
The improvement in using xv ultra is not just sound of different "taste". It really lift up everything significantly. In comparing to xv, the canare is dull and boring.
I have also tried out some ebay pure silver based digital cable, better than the canare but no way near the xv ultra in terms of dynamic, smoothness and natural.
My friend told me the audience au24 digital is even sound more natural with piano.

Interesting... I´ll definately try switching it at some point then, but I need to buy a power supply filter outlet first Oh and by the way, I did some testing with a HD 650... I´m in love with its rolled off treble, I think the LCD-2 is made for me (it should arrive tomorrow!). Even if I am disappointed with the Audeze, I´ll sell the HD 800 and get a HD 650 instead
 
Currawong: on the chinese Audio-gd forums Kingwa has said (at least that´s what a chinese friend told me) that he recommends the single input version of the REF7 if other inputs aren´t needed because it sounds a little bit better (shorter signal path). So that same model of thinking is still going strong, he just added the many inputs due to popular demand  

Don't say that.
 
If you're thankful for the sibilant free treble presentation of the HD650s...you'll think they're rubbish cans after you get your LCD2s.  You'll think theyre veiled, smothered, vague, un-focussed.  I can't understand how they were once my favorite cans!

 

[haloxt]

SPWild, I wonder if audio-gd could put USB or coax input into the CD7, allowing you to connect a computer to it for jitter reclocking. Then it would be like a massive digital interface with cd spinning function.
 
I think what contributed much to the cost of the ref 3 was a crapload of inputs and outputs and high price connectors, and if you need all that then it may be preferable to DI+external psu in terms of price/performance ratio.  Just look at how DI price increases when you add an additional input. What cd7 and ref 3 clearly have over DI is acss output, but imo when you use that your audio system becomes even more unforgiving so it is important to be sure that is what you want and that you will ensure the rest of your setup has no weak links. When I remove the good cables and power conditioning from my transport, I prefer the more pleasant and exciting transistor output over the transparent acss output on my ref 3.

 

[SP Wild]

Quote:

SPWild, I wonder if audio-gd could put USB or coax input into the CD7, allowing you to connect a computer to it for jitter reclocking. Then it would be like a massive digital interface with cd spinning function.
 
I think what contributed much to the cost of the ref 3 was a crapload of inputs and outputs and high price connectors, and if you need all that then it may be preferable to DI+external psu in terms of price/performance ratio.  Just look at how DI price increases when you add an additional input. What cd7 and ref 3 clearly have over DI is acss output, but imo when you use that your audio system becomes even more unforgiving so it is important to be sure that is what you want and that you will ensure the rest of your setup has no weak links. When I remove the good cables and power conditioning from my transport, I prefer the more pleasant and exciting transistor output over the transparent acss output on my ref 3.

I believe the market has opened up to such an uncompromised USB jitter device...so long as there is reassurance that it matches the best disc spinner.  I would jump on this Disc/USB transport device...I would jump on it if it had the disc mechanism removed to shave costs.  I think for such a product to gain acceptance it must utilise USB 3.0, be a full chassis unit with Audio GDs best power supplies and weigh a tonne.  Other units on the market are expensive, small...with wallwarts...hardly reassuring.  Its all about psychology.  Flog it at the price of the CD7, no problems.  Turning ones back on the obvious future of audio medium is unwise.

 

[regal]

Quote:

I believe the market has opened up to such an uncompromised USB jitter device...so long as there is reassurance that it matches the best disc spinner.  I would jump on this Disc/USB transport device...I would jump on it if it had the disc mechanism removed to shave costs.  I think for such a product to gain acceptance it must utilise USB 3.0, be a full chassis unit with Audio GDs best power supplies and weigh a tonne.  Other units on the market are expensive, small...with wallwarts...hardly reassuring.  Its all about psychology.  Flog it at the price of the CD7, no problems.  Turning ones back on the obvious future of audio medium is unwise.

With EAC no disc spinner can compete so I'm not sure I see the point in such a device.  In a couple yearswith USB 3 I am positive all disc spinning transports will be completely osolete.   Pure speculation but I bet the Legato outperforms any transport with a measured 3 ps jitter,  it is very well designed for 16/44.1 by a guy I consider the best digital designer around.    But my battery hiface is nice because it does hirez and I personally think it sounds better than my other transports.  I haven't heard the CD7 and probably never will,  just can't see handling 3 TB's worth of CDs.  In fact the only reason DAC's have made a comeback and the RE seies were such of a success was because of the computer as transport.   Prior to flac and computer transports DAC's were a dying breed.  If you are spinning discs an integrated CDP with analog output is superior because of no spdif and the inner transport is clocked to the internal dac.

 

[vrln]

Only one problem with that argument... There is no CDP out there at the same price as a REF7+CD7 with anywhere near the same features. But yeah, digital interfaces have a lot going for them. Haven´t heard the Legato though, but at least the HiFace and Digital Interface are nowhere near the CD7.
 
EAC is amazing software though. In a few years down the line I can imagine getting a next-gen Digital Interface with maybe an async USB receiver and selling the CD7. Right now PC audio, while good, is just too much trouble for me (WASAPI etc). Most PC´s are also very noisy.
 
PS: I wrote a quick mini-review on the REF7 in the Head-Fi gear listing. It´s a shame it wasn´t even in the top 10 there. We should definately lift it up on the list!

 

[computerparts]

Quote:

 If you are spinning discs an integrated CDP with analog output is superior because of no spdif and the inner transport is clocked to the internal dac

That doesn't necessarily mean that it sounds better and don't forget there are some dacs/transports out there that can sync the clocks. On another note, it's funny how much emphasis we put on jitter when some companies pay no attention whatsoever to it and their products are highly renowned for great sound.
 
 
Quote:

Originally posted by vrln
 
There is no CDP out there at the same price as a REF7+CD7 with anywhere near the same features.

 
That's about $3k after shipping. $3k on the used market will get you a lot of cd player. I'd like to know how the CEC TL2X compares to the CD7 since both can be had around the same price. How does the CD7 handle fast forward/rewind? Just wondering since a dvd mech is used and all the dvd mechs I've seen on cd's are not smooth and fast in this function like they are on cd mechs.

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

Quote:

 If you are spinning discs an integrated CDP with analog output is superior because of no spdif and the inner transport is clocked to the internal dac

That doesn't necessarily mean that it sounds better and don't forget there are some dacs/transports out there that can sync the clocks. On another note, it's funny how much emphasis we put on jitter when some companies pay no attention whatsoever to it and their products are highly renowned for great sound.
 
 
Quote:

Originally posted by vrln
 
There is no CDP out there at the same price as a REF7+CD7 with anywhere near the same features.

 
That's about $3k after shipping. $3k on the used market will get you a lot of cd player. I'd like to know how the CEC TL2X compares to the CD7 since both can be had around the same price. How does the CD7 handle fast forward/rewind? Just wondering since a dvd mech is used and all the dvd mechs I've seen on cd's are not smooth and fast in this function like they are on cd mechs.

 
w/ regards to jittter that makes sense because it is really only an issue when people see it on paper. One cannot hear jitter or grow to like or dislike it. Dan Lavry covered this is detail in another thread. This is very similar to companies that do not use furutech rhodium plated connectors and all that jazz... miraculously, without all of these things like WBT super maximum awesome solder and oven superduper-aunt-jemaima-oven-controlled clocks the gear still sounds good -very good.

Can't say anything about the model you mentioned but the CEC CDP I used was really nice looking but pretty slow w/regards to the drive mechanism IIRC TLX50R or something like that... the one that is the same as their transformer but analogue outs.
 
 
used is always good you are quite correct, but you must bare in mind it is still a discount of a price that was already way too high. Audio GD represents value so good it would be hard to build them yourself for that price. So new audio GD to used other gear could still very much better a better deal and better value. 

 

[Dynobot]

3K new
 

 

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

 
3K new
 

 

That is one sick looking CDP... but at that price point I would be scared to look inside considering the scope of the chassis... would love to be proven wrong though!

 

[Dynobot]

No matter what the innards look like its a winner.
 
Moon Audio CD 5.3 is a killer cdp
 
Not much to look at....
 
 

 

[Dynobot]

Audio Research CD3 can be had for less than 2K used