[Audio Bling]

Quote:

Only difference is I was speaking lightly about the price increase and totally joking about selling my Ref 5 and the other 2 do nothing but shamelessly promote their gear as being the best thing since sliced bread.

[size=10pt]What you said was “[..] [/size][size=9pt]Kingwa will either have to increase prices or reduce the number of chips which will call for a board redesign..[/size][size=10pt]”[/size]
 
[size=10pt]This seems like a strong assertion to me; nothing “light” about it. You are saying something with absolute certainty (or trying to create the certainty yourself). [/size]

 

[Dynobot]

Quote:

[size=10pt]What you said was “[..] [/size][size=9pt]Kingwa will either have to increase prices or reduce the number of chips which will call for a board redesign..[/size][size=10pt]”[/size]
 
[size=10pt]This seems like a strong assertion to me; nothing “light” about it. You are saying something with absolute certainty (or trying to create the certainty yourself). [/size]

Okay, lets end this convo about something so trivial.....So what I said it, take it how ever you want.  Try not to loose any sleep over it

 

[Audio Bling]

Quote:

[..] something so trivial.....So what I said it, take it how ever you want.  Try not to loose any sleep over it

 
[size=10pt]But here is the thing: some folk maybe trying to make a considered decision about A-gd DACs; just as you did when deciding whether to buy the NFB-1 or Ref7. And here you are making a case that the price of the Ref5/7 is certain to go up. Can you see how mischievous your post is?[/size]

 

 

[Dynobot]

 

[haloxt]

Well to me I don't mind too much if the pcm1704uk is no longer available. Some people, including Kingwa, have said the ES9018 dac chip is in the same league. If people who listen to both dac chips in audio-gd dac's feel the same way, I don't see why people should put so much value into pcm1704 that they would choose a pcm1704 dac simply because it is now discontinued. I personally would just choose the dac with the sound description I think suits my taste best, and that is not taking into consideration the price difference between NFB-7 and Ref 7. Cheap as I am, and keeping in mind Kingwa has said both dac chips are similar in performance with slight differences, if I had to buy either of these dac's, I would get the $250 cheaper NFB-7.

 

[Dynobot]

No doubt everything Kingwa makes will most likely sound good.  He has a good design philosophy and a set of good ears.  All in all he is voicing his Dacs to what he feels sounds best....as does every Dac designer.  Once we start to get some reviews in for the Sabre Dacs we will get a better idea of how they sound compared to the 1704 Dacs.  Kingwa is usually spot on in his assessments and I have no doubt when he says they sound similar except for the small details he pointed out, that they indeed do.  Everyone has different priorities when they buy, some more for value, some more for sheer pride of ownership or other. 

 

[Audio Bling]

Quote:

[..]  Once we start to get some reviews in for the Sabre Dacs we will get a better idea of how they sound compared to the 1704 Dacs. [..] 

 
[size=10pt][size=10pt]I agree. I am looking forward to first-hand reports. Personally, I hope the SABRE DACs are a success. For whatever reason (and there maybe many) Kingwa sees them as the future of Audio-gd. [/size][/size]

 

[Dynobot]

Quote:

 
[size=10pt][size=10pt]I agree. I am looking forward to first-hand reports. Personally, I hope the SABRE DACs are a success. For whatever reason (and there maybe many) Kingwa sees them as the future of Audio-gd. [/size][/size]

How do you know Knigwa sees the Sabre chip as the future of Audiogd?
 
Did you tell you that?
 
You are making a statement for certain that Audiogd has no future without the Sabre Dac, why?
 

 

[haloxt]

He's just sayingi he thinks audio-gd will be using the ES9018 a lot in the future.

 

[aljordan]

Hi,
 
Could someone tell me what the differences are between the Ref 7 and Ref 7 HE?
 
Also, am I the only one who thinks the Ref 7 sounds very good with the PLL bypassed?  Well, let me rephrase that; it sounds very good with the PLL in place also, but with the PLL bypassed I get a resolved sound with slightly less sharpness which is very engaging.  I imagine it doesn't measure as well in this state, and I also imagine that the resulting quality would be more dependant upon the transport quality.  I would love to know the technical differences between PLL in the circuit and PLL bypassed if anyone can shed some light on it.
 
Thanks,
Alan

 

[Dynobot]

Quote:

He's just sayingi he thinks audio-gd will be using the ES9018 a lot in the future.

You are really good at translating.
 
I think so too, esp since the 1704 is in limited numbers.

 

[slim.a]

Quote:

Well to me I don't mind too much if the pcm1704uk is no longer available. Some people, including Kingwa, have said the ES9018 dac chip is in the same league. If people who listen to both dac chips in audio-gd dac's feel the same way, I don't see why people should put so much value into pcm1704 that they would choose a pcm1704 dac simply because it is now discontinued. I personally would just choose the dac with the sound description I think suits my taste best, and that is not taking into consideration the price difference between NFB-7 and Ref 7. Cheap as I am, and keeping in mind Kingwa has said both dac chips are similar in performance with slight differences, if I had to buy either of these dac's, I would get the $250 cheaper NFB-7.

Very well said Haloxt. There is no reason to discard the ES9018 without prior audition. Kingwa described the ES9018 sound close to that of the DSP-1+multiple PCM1704s. So far, Kingwa has been pretty accurate about his descriptions. So if we can have something close to the best for much less in price, it is a very good thing.
Also there is always the possiblity to see in the future something like a DSP-x+9018 in the future which might extract even better results than the 9018 alone (pure speculation from my end).
 
Though, I have to admit that I feel a little bit nostalgic that the pcm1704 is nearing the end. I have always imagined ending up with something like the Ref7 as my "ultimate" DAC. In any case, I am very eager to hear how the new NFB7/1 stack up to the "old" Ref7/5...

 

[Dynobot]

There could also be a Dac with multiple Sabre chips.
 
With the Sabre Dacs already into production I can't see Kingwa sitting around doing nothing for long.

 

[haloxt]

Slim.a, I'm also interested to hear more impressions. I think it's hard to imagine a sigma-delta chip being in the same league as the pcm1704, especially after so many years of sigma-delta being considered inferior.

 

[Dynobot]

Quote:

Slim.a, I'm also interested to hear more impressions. I think it's hard to imagine a sigma-delta chip being in the same league as the pcm1704, especially after so many years of sigma-delta being considered inferior.

From what I understand the Sabre uses ESS's own patented Hyperstream D/A conversion rather than delta sigma.
 
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/2106537/
 
http://www.esstech.com/index.php?p=products_DAC
 
www.esstech.com/PDF/sabrewp.pdf
 
IV. THE HYPERSTREAMTM MODULATOR
ESS uses the trademark HyperStream to refer to our range of
noise shaping, bit-reducing modulators9. Our modulators
differ in detail from conventional ΣΔ modulators in that they
 can operate up to 100% modulation depth. This is achieved by
a cascade of independently stabilized lower-order modulators
and careful selection of relative gain in the integrator sections
such that the onset of clipping is well-controlled. As the
modulation depth approaches 100% the loop order essentially
softly degrades to a lower and lower order, each lower order is
independently stable hence the whole modulator is stable for
any modulation depth. This allows us to operate with a
nominal full scale of 90% modulation depth in the Sabre DAC
multi-bit modulator10.