[sandchak]

Yay ! I got my REF1 yesterday in 3 days flat - home delivery from China !!.. a good start considering it at least takes me a week to get stuffs from China..

First of all, let me say that I am not a technical guy (you will never see me taking part in tech discussions..) but more of a guy passionate about music, and my impressions cant even be considered as what one calls "honeymoon impressions" but more of a "first date" impressions..

OK. So when I saw the REF1 physically for first time, it looked so different from what I could visualize from Pics ( think Kingwa should get a better photographer or a better camera) because it is an awe inspiring chunk of aluminum - minimalistic - at the same time it gives you the WOW feeling.. Open the cover and I want to meet those young lads who painstakingly assembled the gear and tell them they are geniuses.. considering the number number of components involved, it truly looks like a great piece of Chinese art ( with so many red parts..)

So far so good.. by the way no stickers on the front panel apart from one, which was actually stuck with a cello tape, so no marks were left after I removed that. At the rear, Yes there a couple of paper stickers that look a little ugly (if you look at it), but fortunately I wont be able to..

Fired it up.. (like the blue LED, its very faint unlike my DAC19SE).. place my ears on the surface of the REF1 - I hear a slight hum coming from the trafos, but I can only hear that when I place my ears on the surface of the REF1, nothing on speakers..

I let it be that way (ON) for 3-4 hours.. I come back and place my hands on the top surface of the REF1 and I get a nice warm feeling.. touch the surface below and I am like "ouch" !!.. its very warm, warm enough to actually say its hot.. my first impression is that maybe it isn't supposed to be that way, but then I am glad I wasn't the first person that bought the REF1 (in this case), so I am quite aware of people talking about it - and rightly so.. anyway, as long as it doesn't cause any damages its fine with me and it seems it hasn't as yet.. so its fine - although I will make sure I wouldn't touch the bottom anymore..

Anyway, that made me take the REF1 from the rack and place it on top of my audio rack so that it had enough space for air circulation.

OK now the listening impressions:

I start with a track from the Sarak K Hobo album with CD7/DAC19SE.. and it sounds amazing .. change over to CD7/REF1 and the first thing I can clearly make out is the space, I mean its close to an explosion of space, there are no more the boundaries which existed with DAC19SE - it goes as far as the music takes you - the ambiance created by REF1 compared to DAC19Se is truly amazing.

I begin to hear things I never heard before - not in way that I only hear somethings louder or even clearer, its more like those things I could hear are very much the soul of the music or the emotion the music creates, so with the Ref I hear complete music.

I don't hear the touches of digital nature that existed with DAC19SE, this is as close to analogue I have personally heard sound being produced by machines ( I guess my years of experience of playing the sax and piano helps to make that out) - it reminded what Curra said, the machine just disappears, what is left is just the music and me, with no mediums in between and as personal as it can get..

Well, I just didn't want to stop hearing this track, but out of curiosity I played a CD (this one a Russian make) and since I have been living in this part of the world for the last 5 years I have bought 100s of CD of similar makes. Press play and it immediately gives me a feeling that I lost out a lot of money on buying these CDs - which wasn't the feeling I got from listening to them through the DAC19Se, so like I think I am guilty (and even Kingwa) of saying that the DAC19Se shares the neutrality of REF1, it shares nothing, not even aluminum !!..

I guess, that is the bad part and reminds me as Peete said, garbage in garbage out..

Which makes me say, that the REF1 isn't made for everyone.. its the kind of DAC that throws a challenge at you and if you don't have the fitting response, it can make you feel very bitter.. but to someone like me, experiencing music is priceless, so the bad CDs will head where it belongs..

So, am I happy with the purchase of REF1 ??.. NO, I am not.. to be honest I am sad I waited so long to buy the REF1.. I wasted months of pure bliss.

I am in love with REF1 on my first date !

And you guys say it gets better??.. you must be kidding..

 

[Drosera]

Congratulations sandchak, glad to see something from Audio-gd finally took the express-route to Georgia. (And thanks for getting this thread back on track.

)

I agree with you on the visuals. Although perhaps not so much on the outside: I was expecting a big block of black aluminium, and that's exactly what I got.

But opening it up, wow, a symphony of primary colours! None of the pictures I have seen do justice to that.

I think it's extremely valuable to finally have some impressions of the differences between the DAC-19 and the Ref One. Nice to hear that the first thing that struck you was the same as it was for me: spaciousness. Apparently there's something about the configuration of those 2 x 4 PCM1704 chips that does a remarkable job in resolving all those subtle spatial cues.

And yeah, it certainly has the ability to make a cd collection more...uhm...varied. I certainly never realised before how much variation in quality there is even in different 21th century recordings of classical music. (Some of 'em really have me scratching my head wondering if the engineers were on vacation or something.)

On Russian recordings: I don't think I've ever heard a single one that would even come anywhere near a kind of reference quality. That's what you get I guess, if you never have to compete with other labels in sound quality. (The Soviet Union had of course just one record label, Melodiya.) It's sad to see the tradition continuing in what must in your case be more recent recordings than most of mine from that part of the world.

 

[Patu]

Congratulations for your Ref1 sandchak. Take some pictures if you can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think it's extremely valuable to finally have some impressions of the differences between the DAC-19 and the Ref One. Nice to hear that the first thing that struck you was the same as it was for me: spaciousness. Apparently there's something about the configuration of those 2 x 4 PCM1704 chips that does a remarkable job in resolving all those subtle spatial cues.

I agree that it's nice to have some comparison with DAC19. But this comparison isn't valid for DAC19Mk3, which has many improvements over DAC19SE. If someone could compare Mk3 and Ref1, I'd really appreciate it. Ref1 would be nice but I can't go for it because I don't have enough space.

I'm currently selling my previous DAC after I got DAC19Mk3. It really sounds amazing.

 

[sandchak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif Congratulations sandchak, glad to see something from Audio-gd finally took the express-route to Georgia. (And thanks for getting this thread back on track. ) I agree with you on the visuals. Although perhaps not so much on the outside: I was expecting a big block of black aluminium, and that's exactly what I got. But opening it up, wow, a symphony of primary colours! None of the pictures I have seen do justice to that. I think it's extremely valuable to finally have some impressions of the differences between the DAC-19 and the Ref One. Nice to hear that the first thing that struck you was the same as it was for me: spaciousness. Apparently there's something about the configuration of those 2 x 4 PCM1704 chips that does a remarkable job in resolving all those subtle spatial cues. And yeah, it certainly has the ability to make a cd collection more...uhm...varied. I certainly never realised before how much variation in quality there is even in different 21th century recordings of classical music. (Some of 'em really have me scratching my head wondering if the engineers were on vacation or something.) On Russian recordings: I don't think I've ever heard a single one that would even come anywhere near a kind of reference quality. That's what you get I guess, if you never have to compete with other labels in sound quality. (The Soviet Union had of course just one record label, Melodiya.) It's sad to see the tradition continuing in what must in your case be more recent recordings than most of mine from that part of the world.

Thanks Dro..

Indeed it was a good feeling when I received the REF1 in 3 days, before that I had feeling I was living in some isolated part of the world !!..

You are correct, maybe the awe inspiring word, isn't the right one to use for the exteriors of the REF1, but in all the 4 and now 5 gears I have bought from Audio GD, it doesn't cease to give me the feeling that these stuffs are huge compared to what you see in pictures, and also I guess the way I think (the bigger the better) helps to add to the feeling..

As I have written I am not the techie kind - I try not to pay much attention on the gear itself while hearing music and I could clearly make out last night ( in fact till 5 am this morning), that with REF1 in my setup it was kind of effortless.

Btw, the Russian Cds I was talking about are not Russian labels or Russian artists, these are normal CDs but made in Russia (mostly pirated) BECAUSE out here you don't get anything but that !!.. In fact my Cd collection is quite extreme, I have a chunk lot of pathetic quality CDs and the rest Phenominal - nothing in between ( or maybe very few)..

EDIT.

Thanks Patu, and you are right it might not be a fair comparison with DAC19MK3 because there have been some improvements gone into it (although less on the SQ and more on additional features.. but still its not a valid comparison as you say), and I think I should also mention that I was equally (maybe a little less) amazed when I first heard the difference between Compass (DAC section) and DAC19SE when it first arrived..

Well as far as pics are concerned, I was going to take some pics, but after seeing some pics put up on the Phoenix thread the other by one of the guys, I kind of felt ashamed to taking pictures from my old - very old 2.1 mp camera..

Anyway, I just took one picture when the REF1 arrived and you can see the pic quality, doesn't really match my words about REF1 !!

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandchak /img/forum/go_quote.gif Btw, the Russian Cds I was talking about are not Russian labels or Russian artists, these are normal CDs but made in Russia (mostly pirated) BECAUSE out here you don't get anything but that !!.. In fact my Cd collection is quite extreme, I have a chunk lot of pathetic quality CDs and the rest Phenominal - nothing in between ( or maybe very few)..

Ah right. Sorry, I though I'd found someone to complain to about Russian music recording standards.

Why are these pirated cd's bad? Bad pressings, or are they even made from low quality mp3's?

 

[sandchak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ah right. Sorry, I though I'd found someone to complain to about Russian music recording standards. Why are these pirated cd's bad? Bad pressings, or are they even made from low quality mp3's?

I wish I knew where the problem lies, whether its bad pressing or mp3 files.. but from yesterday, I just need to feed it to CD7 and the REF1 clearly tells me some real bad things about it..

 

[IPodPJ]

Congrats sandchak. I ordered one too but it will take a month. I am also customizing the front panel with a oversampling/non-oversampling switch and a reset button (which kingwa recommended in case it crashes). I may or may not put a switch on the back (because thats where it has to go) for an additional input.

Look forward to hearing more impressions from you!

 

[Patu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandchak /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks Patu, and you are right it might not be a fair comparison with DAC19MK3 because there have been some improvements gone into it (although less on the SQ and more on additional features.. but still its not a valid comparison as you say), and I think I should also mention that I was equally (maybe a little less) amazed when I first heard the difference between Compass (DAC section) and DAC19SE when it first arrived..

My first touch with Audio GD came with Compass. I mostly tested it as a stand alone DAC for my speaker setup and only briefly auditioned the headphone amp section. It didn't quite match my Lehmann BCL. But the DAC section was truly awesome for the price and even if you don't consider the price. So that got me interested in DAC200 and DAC19Mk3 and I obviously ended up with DAC19Mk3. When I received it I wasn't that blown away anymore, it was just what I had expected. Great sounding DAC which kind of disappears from the equipment chain. It's extremely loyal for the recording without adding or taking anything from it. You can read more of my impressions from DAC19Mk3 thread.

Sorry if this goes offtopic.

 

[gavszero]

Has anyone bought a REF1 to Australia ? What did Kingwa do with the value of the parcel as in Australia we have the $1000 limit before we have to pay customs duty .

While I'm here how much is postage to Australia ?

Thanks ...

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gavszero /img/forum/go_quote.gif Has anyone bought a REF1 to Australia ? What did Kingwa do with the value of the parcel as in Australia we have the $1000 limit before we have to pay customs duty . While I'm here how much is postage to Australia ? Thanks ...

Best to ask Kingwa this. He used to keep the 'declaration price' very low, but this may have changed a little after the DHL-Compass debacle. (Since the declared value determines how much he can get refunded from DHL for lost shipments.) Still, I'm pretty sure he can keep it below 1000$ for you.

No idea about the shipping costs, but they vary quite a bit with the fluctuations in crude oil price.

 

[sandchak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif Congrats sandchak. I ordered one too but it will take a month. I am also customizing the front panel with a oversampling/non-oversampling switch and a reset button (which kingwa recommended in case it crashes). I may or may not put a switch on the back (because thats where it has to go) for an additional input. Look forward to hearing more impressions from you!

Thanks PJ ! one month is what it took to make my REF1 too, actually apart from the pain of waiting for one month, it also gives me a good feeling that something is being made specifically for me, and not like something out of the shelf..

I am sure, the oversampling/non-oversampling switch will be quite handy, although I prefer the plain brick look on the front panel - but I guess functionality means more than looks.

Btw, I enjoy your reading your impressions, specially in the Phoenix thread. I am not too much into headphones and as of now Compass seems to suffice my needs, but then you never know, I was happy with Compass DAC too..

I am also sure you are going to love the REF1 + Phoenix combo, just make sure what you feed in is of no less quality, I am still counting the CDs that goes to charity.. Although I must add, the problem is not with FLAC files I buy online and convert them to CDs in slow speed, they sound perfectly fine..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patu /img/forum/go_quote.gif My first touch with Audio GD came with Compass. I mostly tested it as a stand alone DAC for my speaker setup and only briefly auditioned the headphone amp section. It didn't quite match my Lehmann BCL. But the DAC section was truly awesome for the price and even if you don't consider the price. So that got me interested in DAC200 and DAC19Mk3 and I obviously ended up with DAC19Mk3. When I received it I wasn't that blown away anymore, it was just what I had expected. Great sounding DAC which kind of disappears from the equipment chain. It's extremely loyal for the recording without adding or taking anything from it. You can read more of my impressions from DAC19Mk3 thread. Sorry if this goes offtopic.

There is no doubt Compass being an excellent value for money, for that matter even the DAC19MK3/SE, but I have also learned something from dealing with Audio GD, and that is their higher end gears are the best buys and best value for money compared to similar gears made by more renowned manufacturers IMHO..

 

[sandchak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gavszero /img/forum/go_quote.gif Has anyone bought a REF1 to Australia ? What did Kingwa do with the value of the parcel as in Australia we have the $1000 limit before we have to pay customs duty . While I'm here how much is postage to Australia ? Thanks ...

My Ref1 was declared at USD350.. although it wasn't shipped to Australia. I don't think it is a problem. But like Dro said, always better to ask.

The postage cost is mentioned in the REF1 page on Audio GD website, but unfortunately it seems down now.

EDIT - Sorry, I just checked and postage isn't mentioned in the Audio GD webpage for REF1, you have to ask them.

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandchak /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am also sure you are going to love the REF1 + Phoenix combo, just make sure what you feed in is of no less quality, I am still counting the CDs that goes to charity.. Although I must add, the problem is not with FLAC files I buy online and convert them to CDs in slow speed, they sound perfectly fine..

Perhaps you should experiment a little with ripping them with EAC (paranoid mode) and burning them again, before getting rid of them. If it's just a bad pressing it might improve them.

 

[sandchak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif Perhaps you should experiment a little with ripping them with EAC (paranoid mode) and burning them again, before getting rid of them. If it's just a bad pressing it might improve them.

Its not the first time you have been guilty of snatching words from my mouth..

I was about to say that myself..

In any case, I can keep them for PC setup where I now have the DAC19SE and the Marantz CD17..

Once again, I dont want people to feel I am in any way saying that DAC19 or even Compass for that matter sounds bad. It is just that apart from refining the good things about DAC19Se, the REF1 also takes you into a territory which never existed in DAC19 or Compass. It also seems pretty unforgiving during the little over 24 hours it has been with me, maybe things will smoothen up after some more burn in and it will become a little more forgiving to bad recordings/pressings.

And to be more honest, if REF1 would have been my first DAC, it would have probably traveled back to China, where it came from. I only appreciate it much because of Compass and the DAC19..

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandchak /img/forum/go_quote.gif And to be more honest, if REF1 would have been my first DAC, it would have probably traveled back to China, where it came from. I only appreciate it much because of Compass and the DAC19..

That's an interesting remark. How do you think you would have reacted to the Reference One if you had simply bought it as a replacement for the dac in your Marantz cd player and had skipped the 'intermediary stages'?