[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif IPodPJ: The board in the Ref 1 pictures is the original, which I had to replace to get 24/96 to work properly. They are different in a couple of areas. What you need to do is contact Kingwa and troubleshoot it with him rather than frantically post here.

I'm not "frantically" posting anything. I'm explaining the scenario and the problems I'm having. That's what we do here in forums. Did you hear me once say "Damn this stupid gear! I can't believe that *&@*&@#......." No. I'm passing along the issue in case anyone has ideas, which some have shared and I've tried.

Now here's one for you. Try a long (mine is 18 ft.) Blue Jeans BNC cable. It is much better than the short Canare one that comes with the Ref1. The length minimizes signal reflections and it makes quite a difference with the Ref1.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nothing is on the gear rack yet as the outlets are too far apart. That is one of the reasons for getting the regenerator so I can plug them all in. Nothing else has changed. Like I mentioned, I tried it with the Squeezebox rig too and the same thing occurs. Remember, from day one it was playing out of phase, or what I think sounds like it being out of phase. Instead of the soundstage being in front, it was far to the sides and the sound was coming from behind you head. We figured it just had to do with the NOS/OS switch or maybe even the Reset switch. Well I disconnected both of those and it was not the problem, so his modification was fine. There is something else amiss. And the sound issues make no difference whether you use CAST, XLR, or RCA. I tried all of them. After my last post at 6:35, I decided to take a short drive. By the time I got everything in the car it was about 6:50. Since my office is just down the block, I decided to drive down there. I got there 5 minutes later. I took my Blu-ray player (for use as a CD player), my HD800 and the Ref1 with me. (You need to set up the Blu-Ray player to output normal PCM with a TV screen, which I had done a few weeks back. It must save it's settings to flash memory inside because the audio output through coax perfectly.) We have a receiver there we use with speakers to listen to music. It's actually my very old Yamaha receiver which we are going to dump soon and replace, but luckily we didn't. It has a headphone output. I disconnected my balanced XLR cable and put back the original Sennheiser cable before I left for the office. I plugged everything into the wall and fired it up. Guess what? Same problem. Although I have no wall unit A/C there, we do have central air there which I fired on and off several times, and I didn't hear any clicking noise, but the sound was out of phase (or whatever causes it to sound that way). Only after turning the power off and on on the unit about 20 times did it once play in phase -- until it got to the next song on the CD and then went out of phase again. So I spent about an hour and a half there futzing with it. So I think there may be something wrong with the clock and how it's handled by voltage, which may be built into the DSP module. Some kind of ground/voltage issue is causing it to go out of phase, as well as make the clicking noise here. Here at home when I started it up and it was out of phase, turning the A/C on must have sent a signal through the line and made it go in phase, and of course that is short-lived. Why it occurs I couldn't even begin to guess. I'm not an engineer so I don't know what the actual problem is but I just know there is one and that it wasn't related to the modifications he made, at least not that I can tell since disconnecting them made no difference, which what was he suggested I do several days ago. I'm waiting to hear back from him, so we will see what he says. Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention I even brought with me my Belkin Isolator & Conditioner power strip. Neither here nor there did it have any effect on the Ref1.

So you're saying that it did the dropout every two minutes like at home?

.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif So you're saying that it did the dropout every two minutes like at home? .

Yes, I noticed the dropouts but they were less frequent. So perhaps the frequency of the dropouts has something to do with voltage differences. But the main thing was that the sound was still "inverted." I shouldn't say out of phase because it may not be out of phase, it sounds more extreme than that like I described. Normally the vocals are in the center and in front of you. With my Ref1, when this problem occurs (which is now 98% of the time) the vocals are on both sides of you and sound like they are coming from behind your head/ears.

It did this inverted sound thing from day one when NOS was selected, and even sometimes when OS was selected. I had to reset it often. But only since yesterday has the clicking developed and sensitive to my A/C unit. Nothing else in my home is affected.

Like I mentioned before, my Transporter has the feature of letting you know exact line voltage. I kept this screen on when turning on and off the A/C unit and it did not change at all. So perhaps voltage isn't the issue but there is a grounding problem. I'm not sure.

 

[h.rav]

I've been following this thread since it was started.

I have had several occasions where my Audio-GD 19Mk3 (I know it's not RE1, but it is still an Audio-GD product and I was considering on getting RE1) had exactly the same problem as iPodPJ's RE1. It no longer has the problem, I don't know if it might happen again. I'm very curious what caused the problem, I might send the thing back to Kingwa.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by h.rav /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've been following this thread since it was started. I have had several occasions where my Audio-GD 19Mk3 (I know it's not RE1, but it is still an Audio-GD product and I was considering on getting RE1) had exactly the same problem as iPodPJ's RE1. It no longer has the problem, I don't know if it might happen again. I'm very curious what caused the problem, I might send the thing back to Kingwa.

Which part of the problem in particular? Inverted sound? Intermittent clicking? Or both?

 

[h.rav]

Oops, forgot to mention. It was inverted sound. I'm typing this on my Blackberry.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by h.rav /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oops, forgot to mention. It was inverted sound. I'm typing this on my Blackberry.

Interesting. When I asked Steve from Q-Audio (the guy who built me those resistance adapters) for his opinion earlier, he had this to say:

[size=x-small]"Well, one thing that caught my attention when looking at the photos of the Ref 1's innards is that he's got the digital input and DSP board parked right on top of the AC inlet with the AC leads apparently running directly underneath the that board in order to go to the front of the unit where the power transformers are located. Not a very smart move in my opinion.[/size]

[size=x-small]It's entirely possible that perturbations on the AC line caused by your air conditioner are getting coupled through the Ref 1's AC line into the DSP board and causing it to hiccup.[/size]

[size=x-small]Why it would only manifest itself now is anyone's guess." [/size]

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif <<SNIP>> Normally the vocals are in the center and in front of you. With my Ref1, when this problem occurs (which is now 98% of the time) the vocals are on both sides of you and sound like they are coming from behind your head/ears.

Ok,
Are you absolutely sure you don't have your head screwed on Backwards? I've seen it all too often..

Sorry, just no way I could resist that one!

.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Hmmm....Have you reset the DIP switches to a stock configuration now that you've eliminated the custom mod wiring from the picture ?

Other than that I'd have to say your unit is definitely misbehaving PJ but I'd still wait until the PS Audio PPP arrives before sending the DAC back to Kingwa...I mean you might as well wait to see what effect it will have on the system.

I hope for your sake PJ that something minor has been overlooked or it's an easy quick fix. It might be worth posting pics of the center pcb board and the DSP1 sections for us to look at and see if we can spot anything out of the ordinary.

Peete.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmmm....Have you reset the DIP switches to a stock configuration now that you've eliminated the custom mod wiring from the picture ?

The DSP switches were always in the normal position. The wires were connected to holes in the PCB next to them.

Quote:

Other than that I'd have to say your unit is definitely misbehaving PJ but I'd still wait until the PS Audio PPP arrives before sending the DAC back to Kingwa...I mean you might as well wait to see what effect it will have on the system.

Yes, and I will do this. But regardless, If there is a defect in it, I don't want to take a chance that it could burn up while I'm not home. I shouldn't need a patch for a brand new item. That's not going to happen. I paid for a properly working item and thus it shall be.

Quote:

I hope for your sake PJ that something minor has been overlooked or it's an easy quick fix. It might be worth posting pics of the center pcb board and the DSP1 sections for us to look at and see if we can spot anything out of the ordinary. Peete.

Me too. I have only a cell phone camera which can certainly not take high quality pictures. I've been trying to borrow one for other purposes and as soon as I can, if it hasn't been sent back I will do that.

Did you read the post from the other user who had the same issue with his DAC? This is not unique to me then.

Also of note, when I opened it up it seemed the transformers had a slight odor. They didn't really smell burnt, but sort of a combination of a very slight chemical/heater element odor.

And I guess Kingwa says he wants mine back to check it because if he sends me a new one it could have the same problem. I don't understand the rationale of that statement at all though. If a product works, it works. Why would he send a new one out with a problem?

I am not angry at Kingwa and I appreciate his extra efforts. I understand that he feels I didn't allow him ample time to test the gear but I just don't agree with that. It was shipped out 3 days later than I had asked so he did have time to test it. The issue of me asking for it early was that it wouldn't have the full burn-in. I can't see how it was even tested at all because had anyone there pressed the NOS/OS switch and powered it on, they would have heard there was a problem. This isn't elaborate testing, this is basic, simple stuff. You install a switch, you try it, right? Another oversight was the reset button that wasn't supposed to lock. If he had pressed the switch, he would have known it was wrong. Basic, simple stuff. The stickers still placed on the gear and the scratch on the top of the unit -- not relevant to this issue but it's stuff we've all tried to convey: QC.

So with that, there's really nothing else I can say on the issue. Hopefully he sends for a DHL pick-up soon.

Edit: Remember the post I just showed you from Steve @ Q-Audio? Apparently he's not alone in his thought. Lee from Locus said the same thing:

"Not sure, weird. It's been a while since I looked at the internal pictures of any of the AUdio-gd stuff (I don't have time right now), but, if I remember correctly, it seemed like the DSP board, or perhaps the DAC board was awfully close to the AC input...that could cause some weirdness. However, hard to tell without the unit in front of me hooked up to a 'scope."

 

[IPodPJ]

Quick question, you know on the DSP board where there are jumper pins? Are there supposed to be any jumpers on those? Or are they pins for something else? Because mine has no jumpers on them.

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now here's one for you. Try a long (mine is 18 ft.) Blue Jeans BNC cable. It is much better than the short Canare one that comes with the Ref1. The length minimizes signal reflections and it makes quite a difference with the Ref1.

I wouldn't be surprised if the capacitance of the cable wipes out some noise/interference from the signal too. I'm starting to suspect this is why audiophile power cables can be effective. I'll give a long coax cable a go at some point. I need to decide if I'm going to re-organise a few things first.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wouldn't be surprised if the capacitance of the cable wipes out some noise/interference from the signal too. I'm starting to suspect this is why audiophile power cables can be effective. I'll give a long coax cable a go at some point. I need to decide if I'm going to re-organise a few things first.

Well it's a cheap option! $24.25 + shipping.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ok, Are you absolutely sure you don't have your head screwed on Backwards? I've seen it all too often.. Sorry, just no way I could resist that one! .

 

[IPodPJ]

Oh, Les, so you know, it is not going to cost Kingwa $300 for shipping like you said (even though it would actually be $240). He says I must ship it the cheapest way, which means the longest shipping time. And I guess I have to pay for it up-front? I thought he would issue a call tag for a pick-up.