[DaaDaa]

Lol I got sarcastic Because it was a rhetorical question. Y'all are seriously analyzing the root cause? Lol

 

[PLGA]

I'll add to the impressions I posted initially.

TL;DR - The R2R 2, C-2, and PS1000 or HD800S is the best and most enjoyable head-fi I've experience I've had. Hands down.

Since the digital conversion will have more of an impact on my experience than the amplification circuit, I'll start with the R2R 2. I've owned a slew of DAC's in my head-fi journey, including Neko D100 mkII, MHDT Pagoda, Schiit Gumby, Auralic Vega, Chord Hugo. Granted each of those were paired with different amplifiers and mostly different headphones, I can say with certainty, that the DAC implementation in the AGD hits way above it's price point. It's competitive with anything in the above list, and to my ears, more realistic than most. After hearing the Denafrips Ares a few months ago, I'd knew I'd never go back to a delta-sigma DAC, the R2R experience is just too natural to ever forego. The R2R modules in Mr. Kingwa's design are exceptional. I find the depth, imaging, and timbre from this DAC more true-to-life than any other piece of digital gear I've laid ears on before!

The low end is rich and full - I'm very much reminded of vinyl. Nothing ever feels light or wispy. From sub-bass lines to kick drums, to lower male vocals, the tonal foundation that the R2R 2 portrays is in a word, exceptional.

Midrange is what first hooked me with R2R/multibit conversion. It's just... right. From Norah Jones to Dave Matthews to Pavarotti, vocals are rendered with such clarity and richness, that I've taken headphones off to see if someone has entered my apartment multiple times over the course of three weeks!

The top end is also very well-done. It's got the smooth, non-fatiguing nature of vinyl but without the syrupy, overly-smooth sound of poorly done NOS designs. The detail retrieval is top notch - revealing things in my 'usual' recordings that I've honestly never heard before. The balance between detail and smoothness is really just striking. Better than any of the aforementioned DACs to these ears.

And just a quick word about the soundstage/separation/imaging experience. This is what really solidified my preference for the R2R 2. In a word, things are just immersive. With some of the other R2R DACs I've had, soundstage is usually a little small and sometimes congested. The AGD opens up nicely, without seeming artificial or overblown. After A/Bing a few of the other DACs I've got on hand, the R2R really just takes things to a different place in the way of three-dimensionality. With others, I feel like I'm watching a concert, while the R2R really makes me feel (or sound) like I'm there. I've not been impressed with a single facet of a converter's sound like this in a long time!

Being able to swap between NOS and OS conversion is just icing on the cake at this point. The only other DACs I know off that even offer that option are the Holo Spring and Denafrips Venus and Terminator - both of which retail for at least double what the R2R 2 does. Almost all of my listening was done in NOS mode, as that's the part about R2R designs that usually make the magic happen, but at some point I'll get to comparing the sounds between the OS and NOS settings.

I'm happy to say that this setup is completely satisfying to me and I've no more desire to ride the head-fi merry-go-round of constant gear auditioning and upgrading! I was losing hope that this day would come (especially at a reasonable cost!)

Hello Joe,
I've just read your post and I see that you have tried the MHDT Pagoda DAC.

I have the Audio-GD R2R-2 DAC and I was wondering about getting the MHDT Pagoda DAC as a replacement, at least to compare both, but after reading what you've posted, now I think I dont want to waste my time and money to get something similar or worse.

Can you please give me your impressions about the MHDT Pagoda against the Audio-GD R2R-2? Can you somehow describe their differences in sound?

It's not that I don't like the R2R-2 (I really do very very much), but always as an audiophile I get the upgrade bug!!

On the other hand, I know that you've used the C2 as a headphone amp, but I was wondering about using it as a preamp in my speaker system (I don't listen music with headphones). Have you tried it as a preamp in a speaker system? If so, what would you say it gave to the system in terms of sound quality?

Thank you. Kind regards,

Pedro

 

[WaltW]

I saw on the Audio-GD site that there is a firmware upgrade for R2R 11's shipped prior to March 28. Is this something that can be installed by owners and if so how can it be obtained? It reportedly removes the popping sound when switching PCM tracks.

I will answer my own question -- yes it can be installed with a Xilinx blaster and SDK.

 

[DaaDaa]

Hello Joe,
I've just read your post and I see that you have tried the MHDT Pagoda DAC.

I have the Audio-GD R2R-2 DAC and I was wondering about getting the MHDT Pagoda DAC as a replacement, at least to compare both, but after reading what you've posted, now I think I dont want to waste my time and money to get something similar or worse.

Can you please give me your impressions about the MHDT Pagoda against the Audio-GD R2R-2? Can you somehow describe their differences in sound?

It's not that I don't like the R2R-2 (I really do very very much), but always as an audiophile I get the upgrade bug!!

On the other hand, I know that you've used the C2 as a headphone amp, but I was wondering about using it as a preamp in my speaker system (I don't listen music with headphones). Have you tried it as a preamp in a speaker system? If so, what would you say it gave to the system in terms of sound quality?

Thank you. Kind regards,

Pedro

he has already put it for sale though. i wonder if his assessment changed?

 

[lentoviolento]

Using nfb11 r2r as a dac only, can i have a satisfying performance like the r2?

 

[gLer]

Using nfb11 r2r as a dac only, can i have a satisfying performance like the r2?

I’d like to know the same thing. Thinking of getting an NFB-1 to partner the R2R-11 and wondering if I’ll hear a marked improvement. And also wondering how much better the NFB-1/R2R-1 stack would be than the R2R-11 with the NFB-1. Any and all first hand experience welcome!

PS. Can anyone with an R2R-1 or R2R-2 please post exact measurements of their DaCs here (in cm)? The website suggests the dacs are 4cm shorter at the long end than the NFB-1/NFB-2 amps, although when I asked Kingwa he said they’re exactly the same length. Could someone confirm if the dacs are 32cm or 36cm long please? (for the purposes of a matching stack).

 

[PopZeus]

I don't have a ruler that goes that far in cm but eyeballing it, definitely looks closer to 36.

Still loving this DAC without any modding. Obviously upgrading headphones and speakers are important but I'm shocked at how quickly I've become a convert to the Audio-gd sound.

 

[gLer]

I don't have a ruler that goes that far in cm but eyeballing it, definitely looks closer to 36.

Still loving this DAC without any modding. Obviously upgrading headphones and speakers are important but I'm shocked at how quickly I've become a convert to the Audio-gd sound.

Thanks. How would you rate detail retrieval/resolution? Woukd you consider it high end, or do you think the amp plays a bigger role in terms of detail retrieval?

I have an R2R-11 myself so am likewise a convert to the ladder dac sound

 

[PopZeus]

I’d rate the detail and resolution excellent, for a not-objective sound. Things like harmonics and overtones can interfere with the dynamics and micro-detail. I think that’s why a negative term for too much is syrupy. The color can smother the core audio if overdone. The R2R 1 strikes a good balance between those poles. Tbh, I struggle with what “high-end” means exactly since my experience is based solely on my recent purchases, but yeah I’d say so.

The truth, as I see it, is that you can retrieve all the detail and dynamics in a recording from a DAC as inexpensive as the Mimby. When I was using that to feed the LCX, there was almost too much resolution and dynamics. While competence in that area is necessary for any high-end gear, it was also kinda dry sounding and too much “just the facts”. I guess objectivism in audio only goes so far with me. That said, bit perfect definitely has its place, I just prefer something more analog for my recreational listening.

Also, I’m pretty new to component amps. I got the LCX because it was fully balanced and Cavalli’s stellar reputation. Until then I was running a DAC/amp combo. I’m sure tube amps would color the sound more but my low-maintenance nature prefers the simplicity of SS. What I love about the R2R 1 is it gives me the harmonics and smoothness of tube amps but with control and subtlety, unlike how tube sounds can get pretty out there if you roll them.

The R2R 1 straddles the line between detailed and smooth. But you’ll need to make sure your other downstream gear is compatible, otherwise you can get too much of a good thing.

 

[Elder]

Hi, just joined this thread since I got my R2R-11 last week and as a result, probably selling everything else bar my Woo.

While that should tell you what I think about the R2R-11, it’s not without its quirks. The mention of low level background noise on certain DSDs caught my eye, as it’s the first time I’ve seen this mentioned on Head-Fi and I can confirm it’s very real.

In fact my local agent and Kingwa are working on a solution for it, which should hopefully be available soon as a firmware update (if the feedback I’m getting from them is reliable). We’ve basically narrowed down the issue to the Amanero interface, and to my knowledge this is not the first instance (or first product) where the Amanero interface resulted in some or other noise issues.

It is very isolated though, and only really discernible in quiet parts of some specific DSDs (like Amber Rubarth’s brilliant Sessions from the 17th Ward). The intro to ‘Hold On’ in DSD128 is all but ruined by radio-like scratching noises in the R2R-11, which don’t exist in the PCM version or when you convert DSD to PCM before playback.

So it’s very much a DSD issue. Will feedback here if and when it’s resolved, but something to keep in mind for AGD DSD playback with R2R devices.

My R2R have exactly the same issue. I even recorded the low level noise from some DSD recordings when played by R2R 11 and NFB 11.28. With NFB 11.28 I can notice only the recording venue background noise (normal noise that is actually in the recording) while we hear some strange distorded noise while played back by R2R 11. I wrote AGD about the issue and asked them to try the same DSD files (free samples that can be downloaded by anyone) and shared my recordings of both DACs ouptputs. They said that they were not able to download the files and told me to return my unit for service, if I think it is faulty. I gave up on trying to get a solution from AGD for a while to wait for seeing if someone else had the issue. I just read your post and it seems I am not the only one with this issue. I like the R2R 11 sound very much, though. My complaints are concerned this noise issue, the pop's when changing sampling rates and the DSD level being significantly lower than PCM. I have three DAC's: Youlong Sabre DA8 (first version), AGD NFB 11.28 and AGD R2R 11. As a DAC, I think Yulong outperforms both AGD. In second place, I haven't decided which AGD I liked more. I tend to like R2R more, but it will depend on the source and my mood. I think the R2R is not as detailed as the 11.28, but it has a very pleasant sound. As DAC/Head-amp combo, I like my AGD stuff better than the Yulong.

My recordings of my both AGD DAC's outputs with DSD files can be downloaded from this shared folder:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AgUKiBSHyR2thas3DELNuXzyRpPEtA

The free sample files are from Native DSD store.
The samples used are in DSD256.

The link to download the samples is here (you may be required to login to be able to download):

https://members.nativedsd.com/albums/just-listen-1-compilation

I used DSD256 version of tracks 11 and 12.

The Bach cello track has almost no noise from the DAC while the Mozart one is the one has it very strong in the very beginning and in the soft parts.
I noticed that the Bach track has a very high frequency noise in the recording (like most of the DSD recordings). Believe that the inaudible high frequency noise prevents the DAC to produce the issue.

I still have to read the rest of this tread to figure if you have gotten a solution, but I wanted to share my experience.

Cheers.

 

[gLer]

My R2R have exactly the same issue. I even recorded the low level noise from some DSD recordings when played by R2R 11 and NFB 11.28. With NFB 11.28 I can notice only the recording venue background noise (normal noise that is actually in the recording) while we hear some strange distorded noise while played back by R2R 11. I wrote AGD about the issue and asked them to try the same DSD files (free samples that can be downloaded by anyone) and shared my recordings of both DACs ouptputs. They said that they were not able to download the files and told me to return my unit for service, if I think it is faulty. I gave up on trying to get a solution from AGD for a while to wait for seeing if someone else had the issue. I just read your post and it seems I am not the only one with this issue. I like the R2R 11 sound very much, though. My complaints are concerned this noise issue, the pop's when changing sampling rates and the DSD level being significantly lower than PCM. I have three DAC's: Youlong Sabre DA8 (first version), AGD NFB 11.28 and AGD R2R 11. As a DAC, I think Yulong outperforms both AGD. In second place, I haven't decided which AGD I liked more. I tend to like R2R more, but it will depend on the source and my mood. I think the R2R is not as detailed as the 11.28, but it has a very pleasant sound. As DAC/Head-amp combo, I like my AGD stuff better than the Yulong.

My recordings of my both AGD DAC's outputs with DSD files can be downloaded from this shared folder:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AgUKiBSHyR2thas3DELNuXzyRpPEtA

The free sample files are from Native DSD store.
The samples used are in DSD256.

The link to download the samples is here (you may be required to login to be able to download):

https://members.nativedsd.com/albums/just-listen-1-compilation

I used DSD256 version of tracks 11 and 12.

The Bach cello track has almost no noise from the DAC while the Mozart one is the one has it very strong in the very beginning and in the soft parts.
I noticed that the Bach track has a very high frequency noise in the recording (like most of the DSD recordings). Believe that the inaudible high frequency noise prevents the DAC to produce the issue.

I still have to read the rest of this tread to figure if you have gotten a solution, but I wanted to share my experience.

Cheers.

Sorry to hear about your issues, but at least you’ve come to the right place. Let me summarize the current situation for you so you’re caught up:

1. DSD noise issue. This has now been confirmed by several members, and is therefore, for me, a known fault with the R2R-11. It has nothing to do with the fact that it’s a NOS dac, because plenty other NOS dacs don’t have this issue. It’s simply a hardware fault that wasn’t picked up in testing, and is unlikely to be resolved by AGD because they refuse to acknowledge the issue. Like you I love the sound of the R2R-11, and as a ladder dac I’m aware it is optimized for PCM playback. In fact I’ve been testing DSD converted to high-res (24-176) PCM with the R2R, and indeed the PCM files sound better to me than native DSD.

This leaves me with two options: convert all my DSD files to PCM and enjoy them in high quality with the R2R-11, or sell the R2R-11 and buy a proper DSD-capable dac. I haven’t decided which option I’ll take, but I’m in no rush to sell because frankly it’s the best sounding all-in-one under $1000. When I’m ready to upgrade my sources, I’ll reconsider it then.

2. Pops between sample rate changes. This has allegedly been resolved with a firmware update (that’s actually quite difficult to apply). I’ll be getting my R2R-11 updated by my local supplier shortly, and will report back then.

3. DSD lower volume than PCM. I’m afraid that’s not an R2R-11 fault, but actually a ‘feature’ of most DSD playback software. DSDs are generally recorded with -6dB level to avoid clipping, and this is what you’re hearing. When you convert DSD to PCM you have the choice of restoring the 6dB of ‘lost’ volume, and therefore your PCM files should sound significantly louder at the same volume level on your amp.

HTH.

 

[WaltW]

2. Pops between sample rate changes. This has allegedly been resolved with a firmware update (that’s actually quite difficult to apply). I’ll be getting my R2R-11 updated by my local supplier shortly, and will report back then.

Are there any local suppliers in the US? I followed AGD's instructions and ordered a blaster and software in order to install the new firmware myself. I received the blaster but cannot get the connector to fit in a tight space to connect to the pins in the lower DA. Kingwa said to get Dupont wires to connect the lower module so I ordered some individual F-F 20 cm wires today. Keeps getting more complicated.

 

[gLer]

Are there any local suppliers in the US? I followed AGD's instructions and ordered a blaster and software in order to install the new firmware myself. I received the blaster but cannot get the connector to fit in a tight space to connect to the pins in the lower DA. Kingwa said to get Dupont wires to connect the lower module so I ordered some individual F-F 20 cm wires today. Keeps getting more complicated.

Not sure, I’m not in the US. Sorry.

 

[WaltW]

Has anyone received a R2R 11 with the updated firmware? Does it fix the "pop" and are there any other differences?

 

[FredA]

Are there any local suppliers in the US? I followed AGD's instructions and ordered a blaster and software in order to install the new firmware myself. I received the blaster but cannot get the connector to fit in a tight space to connect to the pins in the lower DA. Kingwa said to get Dupont wires to connect the lower module so I ordered some individual F-F 20 cm wires today. Keeps getting more complicated.

http://www.audio-gd.com/R2Rupdate2.htm

According to the procedure (first picture), space is tight indeed. I would just chop off platic from the right side if the flat cable. If nothing else in the way besides this capacitor on the right, that should do it.