[scannon18]

Again, nothing explicitly makes me think the components are poorly implemented.  Just consider me the devil's advocate on this issue. I've read this entire thread, and I wasn't only paying attention to the negative comments.  
 
I'm sure Kingwa is well qualified, this isn't meant to be an attack on anyone's competence.  It really comes down to the fact that I have never heard this device and have no chance to hear this device until I put down $240 and I am reasonably apprehensive. 
 
In any case this doesn't really bother me anymore.  I'm willing to believe that it's well "put together."  I've got another small reason for hesitation: it may sound too warm.  But apparently that's not an issue, either.  
 
 

 

[eclipes]

did you look at the Audio GD NFB 3.1? i believe it should be the sound character that you're looking for and nothing to worry about poorly implemented parts. Pure quality dedicated dac.
 
Quote:

Well, it essentially comes down to the dacs in any case.  I am a firm believer in the denon drivers, the more you give them the more they give you.
 
The only other dac/amp I'm really thinking about is the Yulong D100.  It's twice as expensive so I'm debating if it's worth the extra time and resources to acquire.  Apparently different sound signature than the nfb 12, supposedly extremely revealing, clinical, sort of what I was looking for

 

 

[captouch]

Quote:

Again, nothing explicitly makes me think the components are poorly implemented.  Just consider me the devil's advocate on this issue. I've read this entire thread, and I wasn't only paying attention to the negative comments.  
 
I'm sure Kingwa is well qualified, this isn't meant to be an attack on anyone's competence.  It really comes down to the fact that I have never heard this device and have no chance to hear this device until I put down $240 and I am reasonably apprehensive. 
 
In any case this doesn't really bother me anymore.  I'm willing to believe that it's well "put together."  I've got another small reason for hesitation: it may sound too warm.  But apparently that's not an issue, either.  
 
 

Scannon18, it's very well made.  Quality parts and workmanship throughout and nothing feels or looks cheap.
 
You have to take into consideration that it's an entry level product that contains both a quality, modern, name brand Wolfson DAC and a powerful headphone amp, with enough adjustability (9 way digital filters) to tweak it to your desire - and the different settings are audible.
 
But as an entry level product, it doesn't implement the DACs to their fullest (uses hardware mode vs software mode), which is fair.  These DACs are used in much more expensive equipment, and it costs more to add the components to implement in SW mode.  It's just a price/cost vs capability tradeoff.
 
The amp is powerful and can drive 600ohm cans and even my orthodynamic HE-5LE's without going past 12 'oclock.  But the HP amp portion is quite warm, treble is rolled off, and doesn't have the detail/clarity of more expensive amps.  If it did, it would be that much greater bang for your buck, but even as is, I think it's a great value.  The HP amp can hold you over until you get something better, but I do strongly believe you're missing something if all you use is the NFB-12 HP amp.
 
The DAC is capable of sounding quite a bit better going out to other amps.
 
Then again, if you like less detailed, rolled off highs that will tame overly analytical cans or onces with overaugmented highs, the HP out might be good for you as well.
 

 

[scannon18]

Quote:

did you look at the Audio GD NFB 3.1? i believe it should be the sound character that you're looking for and nothing to worry about poorly implemented parts. Pure quality dedicated dac.
 


 

Yes I was looking at this.  However, it is about $100 more and while the headphone amp of the nfb12 isn't necessary perhaps for my headphones, I might grab new headphones that will need it.  Apparently the amp is very versatile.  

 
Quote:

Scannon18, it's very well made.  Quality parts and workmanship throughout and nothing feels or looks cheap.
 
You have to take into consideration that it's an entry level product that contains both a quality, modern, name brand Wolfson DAC and a powerful headphone amp, with enough adjustability (9 way digital filters) to tweak it to your desire - and the different settings are audible.
 
But as an entry level product, it doesn't implement the DACs to their fullest (uses hardware mode vs software mode), which is fair.  These DACs are used in much more expensive equipment, and it costs more to add the components to implement in SW mode.  It's just a price/cost vs capability tradeoff.
 
The amp is powerful and can drive 600ohm cans and even my orthodynamic HE-5LE's without going past 12 'oclock.  But the HP amp portion is quite warm, treble is rolled off, and doesn't have the detail/clarity of more expensive amps.  If it did, it would be that much greater bang for your buck, but even as is, I think it's a great value.  The HP amp can hold you over until you get something better, but I do strongly believe you're missing something if all you use is the NFB-12 HP amp.
 
The DAC is capable of sounding quite a bit better going out to other amps.
 
Then again, if you like less detailed, rolled off highs that will tame overly analytical cans or onces with overaugmented highs, the HP out might be good for you as well.
 

 
Yes, apparently it synergizes well with Denons.  But I will probably upgrade the amp to the objective desktop amp, once it is released.  Thanks for the comment, I will probably use this dac/amp  and spend the difference on new headphones.  Plus I can run the Nfb12 to my E9 and see which I like.  I really don't think the denons suffer from a low damping factor as much as other headphones might.
 
 
EDIT:  I just want to thank everyone for all of the comments relating to the nfb 12.  As is somewhat apparent, I do not entirely know what I am looking for, and because of what headphones I plan on buying in the future this decision can swing in a lot of directions.  But as it stands, thanks primarily to you guys, I probably will get the nfb 12.
 

 

[satwilson]

Quote:

Yes I was looking at this.  However, it is about $100 more and while the headphone amp of the nfb12 isn't necessary perhaps for my headphones, I might grab new headphones that will need it.  Apparently the amp is very versatile.  

 
 
Yes, apparently it synergizes well with Denons.  But I will probably upgrade the amp to the objective desktop amp, once it is released.  Thanks for the comment, I will probably use this dac/amp  and spend the difference on new headphones.  Plus I can run the Nfb12 to my E9 and see which I like.  I really don't think the denons suffer from a low damping factor as much as other headphones might.
 
 
EDIT:  I just want to thank everyone for all of the comments relating to the nfb 12.  As is somewhat apparent, I do not entirely know what I am looking for, and because of what headphones I plan on buying in the future this decision can swing in a lot of directions.  But as it stands, thanks primarily to you guys, I probably will get the nfb 12.
 

The NFB12 will make you happy. Only possible upgrade, O2, not for me.

 

[scannon18]

Now, is it the headphone amp or the dac that is responsible for the "reduced soundstage" i've read so much about?
 
Not that reduced soundstage is scaring me away from this thing, it's probably an overblown claim.  it seems to me it would be an amp thing but I know so little about all of this

 

[captouch]

Now, is it the headphone amp or the dac that is responsible for the "reduced soundstage" i've read so much about?
 
Not that reduced soundstage is scaring me away from this thing, it's probably an overblown claim.  it seems to me it would be an amp thing but I know so little about all of this

Amp I'd say, because the DAC output on other amps seems to have good soundstage.

One thing I'll say - the amp section puts out some pretty powerful/weighty bass. More so than any other amp of mine.

 

[scannon18]

Quote:

Quote:

 

Amp I'd say, because the DAC output on other amps seems to have good soundstage.
One thing I'll say - the amp section puts out some pretty powerful/weighty bass. More so than any other amp of mine.

 Hmm, interesting.  I would love for some measurements on this device, it's too bad nwavguy doesn't have a write-up for the nfb12 on his blog.  In any case I ultimately plan on changing the amp.  But I really enjoy soundstage.  I believe the soundstage of my headphones is slightly reduced through the E7/E9 combo compared to just the E7.
 

 

[scannon18]

Quote:

did you look at the Audio GD NFB 3.1? i believe it should be the sound character that you're looking for and nothing to worry about poorly implemented parts. Pure quality dedicated dac.
 
 

 
I ended up picking up a used 3.1 from a local member.  Thanks for pointing me in the right direction it's a huge improvement from my E7.
 
 

 

[yodanyo]

Hi all New here to the forums but have been following for a while. I purchased the ordinary NFB-12 from Pacific Valve and have the D2000 so if u had questions I could try to answer some of them scannon.I dont know how useful I would be since I'm not a "true audiophile" rather than a bored student that had some cash in the summer ha.

 

[eclipes]

did you buy it from the sales forum here? if you did then we were probably looking at the same unit but the buyer resisted in shipping international for me. 

. But glad you like the 3.1 
 
Quote:

 
I ended up picking up a used 3.1 from a local member.  Thanks for pointing me in the right direction it's a huge improvement from my E7.
 
 

 

 

[scannon18]

Quote:

did you buy it from the sales forum here? if you did then we were probably looking at the same unit but the buyer resisted in shipping international for me. 

. But glad you like the 3.1 
 


 

It's possible, when I was looking there were a few units from a few different people being sold.  I happened to live in the vicinity of one of them and so I jumped at the prospect of not paying any shipping and not having to wait for delivery.   Haha, I'm sorry if I swiped the one you wanted, especially since I had only starting looking at these at your suggestion.  But I am sure there is another one being sold you can buy.  
 
In the meantime, I am sure the nfb 12 is a wonderful dac.  I do not know the extent to which the 3.1 would be an improvement because I have not heard a 12.1 .  But it probably isn't that large.
 
 
 
 

 

[dwinnert]

I have owned the NFB-12 since last November......I love this DAC......
 
I also love this thread...it makes me giggle.

 

[dwinnert]

BTW....does everyones nfb-12 make a slight click when powered on? I assume it's a relay.......

 

[Tilpo]

BTW....does everyones nfb-12 make a slight click when powered on? I assume it's a relay.......

Yep.

Kingwa said it wasn't harmful, so I don't really worry about it.
Maybe it's a slight DC offset?