[Kingwa]

 
Quote:

thanks kingwa,
 
the link does not work for me..
For sure many devices have different f-response depending on the sample rate. But more above 20 kHz and this means not in the range people can recognize huge differences.
 
You know, people in europe are buying a lot from the net, but mostly inside their own country. Buying from China is for most including me a different story. I'm sure you are very supportive and helpful, but I simply ask for your understanding, that I want to get as much information as possible before the product is delivered.
In EU for instance you may by law return each product to supplier wthin 14 days without any explanation and without any costs. Also here I'm sure you would agree on that too, but it would be more complicated and expensive than inside Europe anyhow.
 
And, a graph or a number is - at least for me - much concreter information than words like 'neutral, dynamic, smooth , forgiving...'. Such is always a matter of taste.
BR Michael

http://www.stereophile.com/content/simaudio-moon-evolution-andromeda-reference-cd-player-measurements
 

Simaudio Moon Evolution Andromeda Reference CD player Measurements

blue trace is 96K
Red trace is 44.1K
 

 

[Slaughter]

Madwolf, by your account, upsampling in foobar to 96 or 192 should decrease the rolloff and remove/reduce the veil, but this is not the case. I don't think there is a veil anyhow, but I used the Sox plugin for foobar and upsampled to 96 as that is the max of the USB input and the max of my coax output. I didn't do too much critical listening, but I didn't hear a difference. Probably because there is very little audible music where the roll off occurs. I will do some more testing this weekend, but I think the graphs and specs are being blown way out of proportion. The Audio-Gd website is very clear on the sound of the NFB-12 and I am not hearing anything different than the description. It seems people wanted the NFB-12 ot sound like the 11.

 

[baylaef]

Dear Kingwa
 
How do you think about the following (red) point.
I totally agree with Mr. Madwolf.
 
Quote:

 
Quote:

I ever wrote a article and post at a Chinese audio magazine in 2010.I can't fully interpret the article to English base my English ability.
I think the 192KHz support not a real upgraded.
The software (the recorders ), there is a real improved than 44KHz.
But  the hardware, a lot newest D/A chips only support up to 96KHz or lower. The newest DA chips declare support up to 192KHz not real open a new field than the older PCM1704.
The WM8741, the ES9018, at 192KHz input, they want to work on the "high rate" filter mode.(Had declare in their PDF files.)
Read from the output waves of the WM8741 on oscillograph , I presumed the 192KHz input is working at 2X times oversample. At 96KHz is 4X (8X of some other chips ) oversampling.
If the digital filter setting to 2X oversampling, the PCM1704 can working at 384KHz ( PCM1704 can support highest 768KHz input ).
In theory  the 8X oversampling sound more detail and black backgroup than 4X and 2X modes , and I gree the throry with my experience.
So 192KHz files sound maybe no benefit than 96KHz files after the DAC.
But I gree the WM8741 is a excellent DA chips, its sound mellow and  analog taste, the soundstage is quite wide and deep than some other chips. So we design the WM8741 based DACs was follow its flavors.
Personal I like it's working at 96KHz or lower modes, but people always like the 192K support on paper.
Sorry again for my English.
PS: Edwin is not me, his English is much better.

 
For people who think that NFB12 sound bad, I believe you are feeding the NFB12 using a 44/48khz input. 
I strongly urge you to feed the NFB12 with a 192khz source and hear the difference. 
Using a 96k source is only slightly better as it is just half way there. 
I know 192khz source is hard to find but try. 
 
After reverting to Pin 22 to 3.5V. the sound become darker and veil, The tonal balance is off at the high end. After some listening I know that this cannot be right.
Again I remove Pin 22 from the PCB and after I confirm with a few song the sound is great. At least the high end gives the correct tone.  
AB test with another system to confirm. 
 
The same amount of hissing is heard at both setting. 
 
Taken from Page 40 of Wolfson 8741 datasheet

We need to set the correct setting for this pin to the source sampling frequency if not the digital filter will be off. 
The NFB12 current fix this pin at one fixed setting. 
 
From supercurio graph the NFB12 is correctly configured if the input source is 192khz
There a very slight error if the input source is 96khz
But if the source is at 44khz the high frequency is rolled off prematurely.
 
It cannot be the 470pf or 100pf as pointed out by KingWa. because if it is this it will affect all the graph at different source frequency.   
 
 
高音的问题只有在用户使用44/48khz输入时才会出现。
如果输入是192khz高音是没有问题的。 
96khz输入时影响不大。 
 
你说的那个470pf capacitor，看来影响不会那么大。有影响的话，影响44/96/192的程度也会是相同的。 
可是我从supercurio的报告看到影响的程度是不一样的。
 
Wolfson8741的说明书第40叶，写到不同的输入是要用不同的设置的。 可是我量到这是锁定在3.5V的。 
 
 

 

 

[Juhazi]

Hi Guys and Kingwa,
 
I think that most people will use NFB-12 by feeding it with the usual 16/44,1 signal from their laptops/boxes or a cd-player (like me). Upconversion is tricky even with Foobar plugins and one would need a digital oscilloscope to verify the output rate. The dac-freaks here are splitting hair-fibers now. For a gadget costing around 250€ delivered to your door in Europe is not supposed to be high-end. 
 
I'm not an engineer but I do understand the urge to ger the most out of a chip's performance. If you can find a simple approach to overcome a weak point, that's fine!
 
Alas, my thumbs up for guys like Kingwa and Head-Fi members for your contribution and conversation of the subject!
Juha

 

[BoyNamedSue]

+1. I fall in the camp of not "splitting hair fibers," but I do admire the passion of those who working to squeeze out the last ounce of performance in their gear. It is quite educational to read about different ways to measure and improve upon fidelity.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Juhazi /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I think that most people will use NFB-12 by feeding it with the usual 16/44,1 signal from their laptops/boxes or a cd-player (like me). Upconversion is tricky even with Foobar plugins and one would need a digital oscilloscope to verify the output rate. The dac-freaks here are splitting hair-fibers now. For a gadget costing around 250€ delivered to your door in Europe is not supposed to be high-end. 
 
I'm not an engineer but I do understand the urge to ger the most out of a chip's performance. If you can find a simple approach to overcome a weak point, that's fine!
 

 

 

[vrln]

Has anyone tried feeding the NFB-12 an upsampled signal via an Audio-gd Digital Interface (it can do upsampling, and with the upgraded clock it should work even better than before)? I think that could be a really awesome combo.

 

[LiqTenExp]

got mine a few days ago but finally hooked it up.  Sounds good so far.
 

 

[Kassem]

Can anyone comment on the quality of the amp itself?

 

[LiqTenExp]

It sounded ok with my DT990s in the high gain state and had plenty of power for them.  I will try it out with my Ultrasone HFI-780 this weekend sometime.
 
Using the DT990:
In general I feel the NFB-12 highs are more pronounced than the LD MKIII I have.  The sound stage is a little more forward also on the NFB-12 as compared to my LD MKIII.  The LD MKIII has more output power into 600 ohm cans than the NFB-12 does.  Listening position for me was about 12 to 1 o'clock on the NFB-12 in high gain mode vs, 10 to 11 o'clock on the LD MKIII.  That being said both have the power to drive the DT990 to above safe listening levels at higher volume settings.
 
This DAC/AMP can't be beat for the price.  It does run warmer than my LD DAC_I I have.  Nothing even close to anything I have that is tube related though.  This thing is definately a keeper for me.

 

[Poetik]

What does everyone put underneath their nfb-12 to keep it from moving all over their desk? I was thinking of buying some cheap rubber feet from lowes / home depot or putting one of those non-stip kitchen section mats underneath.

 

[Olias of Sunhillow]

Quote:

I was thinking of buying some cheap rubber feet from lowes / home depot or putting one of those non-stip kitchen section mats underneath.

I thought about the non-slip kitchen mat as well, but worry about the heat the unit generates melting the mat onto my desk.
 
I'm thinking that some sort of homemade rubber feet (superballs, maybe?) will suffice.

 

[publicholiday]

wonder how does the dac sound on the studio monitor which has flat & uncolored sound signature

 

[Jupe]

Quote:

What does everyone put underneath their nfb-12 to keep it from moving all over their desk? I was thinking of buying some cheap rubber feet from lowes / home depot or putting one of those non-stip kitchen section mats underneath.

Sticky tack. It's all I had around, and isn't seen anyway.
 
Originally I thought the heat might do something funky, but it hasn't ever gotten hotter than "fairly warm" (on my own scale of hot-or-not). I don't think it's enough to melt anything, but then again I'm in a very cool place to start with.

 

[prozach1576]

Can someone explain to me the difference between the amplifier section on the NFB-12 and the older Audio-GD DAC/amp combos like the FUN and the Compass? I know that the FUN and the Compass use opamps and the NFB-12 doesn't, but I don't understand the significance. What are the advantages and disadvantages to using opamps?

 

[Slaughter]

here is what I use on all my DIY projects and on the NFB-12: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104070
 
Quote:

What does everyone put underneath their nfb-12 to keep it from moving all over their desk? I was thinking of buying some cheap rubber feet from lowes / home depot or putting one of those non-stip kitchen section mats underneath.

Probably really flat and uncolored.


Quote:

wonder how does the dac sound on the studio monitor which has flat & uncolored sound signature