[fourwed]

 
 
Quote:

quite frankly, I really wouldn't advise to use no-name chinese batteries: http://www.nikonusa.com/Service-And-Support/Service-Advisories/h0ndzaip/EN-EL15-Battery-Recall-Service-Advisory.html
 
even those that went through the QA of serious manufacturers can give problems, so no-name stuff on ebay directly shipped from China? hummm.
 
Kingwa also provides a killer looking Class-A PSU with 0.3mV ripple for pretty cheap, sounds good to me..no overheating issue, no flat batteries, very low ripple = win win 

 
These batteries are only assembled in China but the battery is made by SANYO. It is only 18650, a very standard battery in many hand torches and notebook batteries. It should be of very good quality if it is not fake.
 
Quote:

 

Yes, I ordered a 5200 mAh and a charger with protection circuitry from the same seller for $49.90 total. I'm planning to see how it works and post results with the DI and then again when I get my DI-V21.
 
Kingwa must be talking about some low capacity batteries or something when he says you can find them with charger for $15. There's about an $8 premium for the barrel connectors from what I've seen comparable battery packs selling for with bare wire ends. I think that's a pretty fair price to pay regardless, and $50 is less expensive than the power supply anyway.
 
Edit: I wonder if the Olimex Isolator will work with the DI-V21 (at 24/96 and lower, anyway).

 
Kingwa must be refering the price in China. It is not as expensive as in USA.
 
As for the DI, overvoltage is a problem and it might damage the DI; undervoltage will just not having enough power to power up the DI. However, an undervoltage lithium battery will be permanent damaged and might swell. It is advised not to wait until the battery are all used up, unless using protected battery like you.
 
7.4V is because 1 cell battery is 3.7V, 2 cell is 7.4V. You will not find any Lithium battery has a lower or higher voltage. As a matter of fact, a full charge 7.4V battery is about 8.4V, you could verify it with a multimeter. I am thinking using common AA battery will do the same trick, chargeable or alkaline, but I might be wrong.
 
It is labelled on the old DI that it uses 300mA. I think a 5200mAh battery will drive around 13 hours.
 
My battery powered DI has given me some problems. For example, there is no sound / cracking sound if I use the battery sometimes. What I did is unplug everything and wait for a minute or two, then reconnect them again. I hope you will not have problems like me and I will ask Kingwa why?
 
Please compare the battery powered DI with Audio-gd's PSU if you have one, thx.
 
Quote:

 
 
are you going to order one?
i've got the old PSU at the moment, so i'll get batteries only if they will be reported as an improvement by someone like you

 
 
kr0gg, please do not try battery powered DI. It is too risky and complicated for someone like you

 

[tim3320070]

I'm not sure how a battery would do a better job than the dedicated, high quality PSU? Unless you have the noisiest power source on the planet? I live in a 150 year old house with a mish-mash of wiring and everything is silent through my gear (using power filter).

 

[fourwed]

I think you have to try it for yourself. I did not say the battery is better than PSU and I honestly did not compare them. I just based on the review saying that the PSU only makes a subtle difference and that is why I did not buy it with my DI.
 
For me, I don't know much about power and electronics but I think you should agree with me that a cleaner power source / a high quality power cable makes a lot of difference.
 
According to some Hifi lovers, they think power filter, except thousands of dollars, will cut both the high and low frequency.
 

 

[tim3320070]

I don't agree about the power cable but that's another silly debate- I use $3 Monoprice cables for everything and they sound the same as the "nice" cables I had. I also hear no difference with or without the filter, I use it as a way to plug multiple items in at this point. I guess I'm not a Hifi lover.

 

[somestranger26]

Quote:

I think you have to try it for yourself. I did not say the battery is better than PSU and I honestly did not compare them. I just based on the review saying that the PSU only makes a subtle difference and that is why I did not buy it with my DI.
 
For me, I don't know much about power and electronics but I think you should agree with me that a cleaner power source / a high quality power cable makes a lot of difference.

I'm fairly certain the battery is going to be better than the PSU for exactly that reason; there's only a very subtle difference using the power supply, and you're saying the battery makes a noticeable improvement. It is also worth noting that on his really high end gear, Kingwa says his power supplies are better than batteries which infers that batteries are the power supply to beat. I do not think the psu for the DI is up to the same standards as the insane ones using in gear like the Reference 7.1.
 
I agree that cleaner power source undeniably makes for better sound quality, but the latter statement about power cables is quite contested. In my experience, using a Pangea AC-9 with my NFB-10ES makes a small improvement in bass extension and imaging (more precise location of instruments, etc.), but the Audio-GD power cable I use with the PSU makes no difference. Unless you have a really high end system, it's obviously not worth even thinking about upgrading power cables (or other cables for that matter) since the difference is not large.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fourwed /img/forum/go_quote.gif
These batteries are only assembled in China but the battery is made by SANYO. It is only 18650, a very standard battery in many hand torches and notebook batteries. It should be of very good quality if it is not fake.
Exactly. The price pretty much lines up with what you'd pay for the 18650 cells domestically, but it is in a pack enclosure. I'm confident they're legitimate Sanyo cells. A lot of the batteries this seller has seem to be aimed at simply taking a battery already on the market, adding connectors to it, and reselling for a premium. Kingwa even asked me whether I could find the batteries on ebay, and pretty much all the batteries on ebay are direct from China.
 
Kingwa must be refering the price in China. It is not as expensive as in USA. Yeah, I'm sure. However, I can't imagine a 100%+ price difference when the bare materials and mfr. process are expensive.
 
As for the DI, overvoltage is a problem and it might damage the DI; undervoltage will just not having enough power to power up the DI. However, an undervoltage lithium battery will be permanent damaged and might swell. It is advised not to wait until the battery are all used up, unless using protected battery like you.
 
Overvoltage shouldn't be a problem with protected charger, and undervoltage shouldn't be a problem with a protected battery. Seems pretty safe to me as long as one follows Kingwa's instructions so as not to damage their DI.
 
7.4V is because 1 cell battery is 3.7V, 2 cell is 7.4V. You will not find any Lithium battery has a lower or higher voltage. As a matter of fact, a full charge 7.4V battery is about 8.4V, you could verify it with a multimeter. I am thinking using common AA battery will do the same trick, chargeable or alkaline, but I might be wrong.
 
I think the 8.4V at full charge is correct, since the charger is 8.4V.
 
My battery powered DI has given me some problems. For example, there is no sound / cracking sound if I use the battery sometimes. What I did is unplug everything and wait for a minute or two, then reconnect them again. I hope you will not have problems like me and I will ask Kingwa why?
 
Are you switching between USB and battery power too quickly or something?
 
Please compare the battery powered DI with Audio-gd's PSU if you have one, thx.
 
I do and I will .

 
 

 

[tim3320070]

You're fairly certain of an someone else's opinion based on no experience or direct testing by either of you of the PSU vs a battery? 

 

[somestranger26]

 
Quote:

You're fairly certain of an someone else's opinion based on no experience or direct testing by either of you of the PSU vs a battery? 

 
Yes. He said the battery made a significantly noticeable difference. (Said it definitely made an improvement over USB power).
Nobody has said the PSU makes a significantly noticeable difference. (They use words like "subtle" or "can't tell a difference").
Therefore, I think the battery will be better than the PSU. (This is sound categorical logic as far as I can tell)
 
What, do you think I am not actually going to listen for myself? I'm simply stating my expectations, and I think they will be confirmed despite whatever confirmation bias you must think I'll fall prey to.

 

[fourwed]

 
Quote:

 
 
Yes. He said the battery made a significantly noticeable difference. (Said it definitely made an improvement over USB power).
Nobody has said the PSU makes a significantly noticeable difference. (They use words like "subtle" or "can't tell a difference").
Therefore, I think the battery will be better than the PSU. (This is sound categorical logic as far as I can tell)
 
What, do you think I am not actually going to listen for myself? I'm simply stating my expectations, and I think they will be confirmed despite whatever confirmation bias you must think I'll fall prey to.

 
Thanks for your understanding. Besides, it is not costing you an arm and a leg to use battery. It costs me nothing because I have those batteries on hand and I DIY the cable. The beauty is that the battery that I am saying is cheap and could be used elsewhere if you think it sounds bad. However, $50 is a lot and I hope you won't regret.
 
I was a unbeliever in power cable and clean power until one day my colleague lent me an Acrolink 4020 ($150). It was using with FUN then and 10SE now. There is a noticeable improvement especailly the string sound. After that, I have tested some power cables ranging from ($30 to $110) and there is not that much improvement although it is noticeable.
 
Acrolink 4030 (4020 is not listed in its English site)
http://www.acrolink.jp/english/products/6n_p4030.html
 
Can I know what is "Are you switching between USB and battery power too quickly or something?"?
 
I would also like to know the steps of connecting PSU to DI, is it like this?
 
1. connect the DI Coaxial to the 10SE Coaxial
2. connect the PSU to DI
3. turn on the power of PSU
4. turn the switch from "USB" to "DC IN"
4. plug the USB cable to a running computer
 

 

[somestranger26]

Quote:

Can I know what is "Are you switching between USB and battery power too quickly or something?"?
 
I would also like to know the steps of connecting PSU to DI, is it like this?
 
1. connect the DI Coaxial to the 10SE Coaxial
2. connect the PSU to DI
3. turn on the power of PSU
4. turn the switch from "USB" to "DC IN"
4. plug the USB cable to a running computer

 
Are you switching between USB and battery power without giving the DI a few seconds of being off? Maybe that is why you get crackles or no sound. I will definitely post if I experience this phenomenon when I get my battery.
 
Those steps look correct, although you can interchange the switching from USB to DC IN such that you plug the USB in, the DI powers off of the USB, and then you can switch to DC on the fly. With batteries it seems like you would want to go on battery power before connecting to the computer. My personal steps are as follows since I use the Olimex USB Isolator, and my DI gets its power over USB.

• Connect coaxial between DAC and DI.
• Connect USB from Olimex Isolator to DI.
• Connect PSU To Olimex Isolator, turn it on.
• Plug Olimex Isolator into computer.
• Switch from "DC IN" to "USB" if necessary.

 

[fourwed]

Somestranger26, thanks for you info. My battery powered DI works fine today even I have switched the battery a few times. Do you mean that I should stop the source for a few seconds before switching, while leaving the USB cable connected and PSU/Battery Power on?
 
I took a look of USB-ISO and its input is 8-15V while the USB is 5V. That means there is a circuit to lower its power to 5V and that might affects the sound. Please try both the Olimex power port and DI power port when you use your battery.
 
I am also buying an isloator built locally and see if there is any improvement. According to the seller, it also lower its power from 5 to 9V by using built-in linear power. I could also DIY to bypass it and feed an 5V to it directly if I desire so.

 

[somestranger26]

Somestranger26, thanks for you info. My battery powered DI works fine today even I have switched the battery a few times. Do you mean that I should stop the source for a few seconds before switching, while leaving the USB cable connected and PSU/Battery Power on?

I took a look of USB-ISO and its input is 8-15V while the USB is 5V. That means there is a circuit to lower its power to 5V and that might affects the sound. Please try both the Olimex power port and DI power port when you use your battery.

I am also buying an isloator built locally and see if there is any improvement. According to the seller, it also lower its power from 5 to 9V by using built-in linear power. I could also DIY to bypass it and feed an 5V to it directly if I desire so.

I'm not sure what the best way is, I'll try to determine the correct methodology when my battery arrives. If you're having no problems then I would keep doing what you're doing.

Yeah, the Olimex uses some sort of switching regulator to convert it back to 5V but it sounds better/the same as connecting direct to the DI and it is more logistically sound the way I have my gear placed. I highly doubt I'll provide DC over USB using the battery.

Not sure yet if the Olimex will even work with the DI-V21 since it's designed for USB 1.1 and the DI-V21 is now USB 2 (but perhaps switches to 1.1 at lower resolutions?).

 

[darren700]

Hmm that would be interesting to know. I will test with my di-dsp when it arrives. I actually bought a second olimex usb-iso with the plan to use one with the di-dsp and one with the audiolab mdac USB input when it arrives. Hopefully it still works with the di-dsp, maybe it just won't work right with higher Res files such as 24-192 as you said.

 

[darren700]

Hurray, looking at the olimex site it states its fully USB 2.0 compliment stating full speed of 12mbps. However high speed usb2.0 can get up to 20-25 mbps so technicaly it might still be too slow for 24-192 use. so there should be no problems with 24-96 (as I've done it before with the usb-iso and DI V1) however 24-192 may be a problem; does anyone know the actual bitrate of a 24-192 file so we can see if it work? (I'm at work and can't check)
http://www.olimex.com/dev/usb-iso.html

 

[somestranger26]

Yeah, exactly. It says it is USB 2.0 compliant, but with a max speed that USB 1.1 uses (12mbps). So, it seems likely that it will still work up to 24/96 but I wouldn't go spending money til it's been confirmed. Another interesting thing to find out will be whether it even makes a difference with the asynchronous TE8202 now used vs the isochronous TE7022.

edit: Depending on USB overhead it could theoretically work at full 24/192.
(24 bits/sample * 192,000 samples/sec * 2 (overhead coefficient)) / (1 megabit or 2^20) ~ 9Mbps, very close to the top of the USB 1.1 range.

 

[somestranger26]

So, I got my battery in the mail today and nothing has exploded yet. I'm impatient so I put it on the charger for about 30 minutes to get some testing in before going out.

The battery certainly makes an improvement,although it requires careful listening to notice. In comparing to the DI w/ isolator but no power supply, the Improvements seem to be 'sharper' sounding string instruments, 'blacker' background, and slightly more low level details and ultra low frequency bass (<30hz) likely as a side effect of the 'blacker' background.

In one of my main test songs, "Invisible Man in a Fluorescent Suit" by Shpongle, the opening 60 seconds has significantly more subtle details (especially the 'pat tat tat' sort of sound around 0:50-1:00) and the violin sounds more realistic like there is a quicker transition from one movement of the bow to the next. Around 1:59 there's some details in the background that used to be pushed back and required active listening that are now very clear. The drop at 2:29 and subsequent bass-intensive portions thereafter seem to reach deeper in the 20-30hz range.

Overall, it seems like a great upgrade that's worth getting over the power supply. I still can't really tell much of a difference using the power supply, such that it could just be a placebo. The battery is definitely an upgrade in sound quality, but I would say the USB Isolator and hex inverter swap are higher priority upgrades for the DI-V1. The difference in sq upgrade is somewhere between the isolator/hex inverter upgrades and upgrading the USB cable (I use a Furutech GT2).

By the way, regarding the whole switching between battery and usb thing I found it remarkably easy. Sometimes just flipping the switch works (especially if you're not playing anything), but if it doesn't these seem to have 100% success rate:

Switch from USB to Battery:
-Stop all playback on computer
-Unplug USB from DI
-Switch to battery
-Plug USB back in

Switch from battery to USB:
-Stop playback
-Unplug USB from DI
-Switch to USB
-Plug USB back in

edit:
P.S. No dropouts yet on battery, noticed some when switching to PSU.

edit2: changes seem more immediately noticeable on speakers -- very immersive soundstage and deep bass.