[jerick70]

This is not possible. The PCB is quite complex with Bluetooth, USB input + charging, Analog input and microphone input. All of the audio is routed through a set of balanced amplifiers to the transducers.

Thank you for answering my question. That's what I thought but was just curious.

 

[KMann]

I’m impressed by the responsiveness of the Audeze team to our deluge of questions, but all the info has left my head swirling. I’ve read through all 44 pages at once and still am not sure what to expect with regards to gaming on a PS4.

It would be extremely helpful to me and many others if Audeze could provide an all-inclusive rundown on how to connect the Mobius to the console, what outputs are available (ie stereo, 5.1 etc), and what third-party hardware could help (like the X7, mixamp) as well as the difference between, say, X7 surround -> Mobius headtracking vs headtracking disabled.

One way to connect to a console is through Aux input and you will get 2ch with stereo emulation along with head tracking (i.e feels like two floor standing speaker in front of you but no rear channels). Currently we are not aware of way to get 5.1/or 7.1 channel output from any console to Mobius as the only way to experience 5.1/7.1 channel surround on Mobius is through USB input. There have been posts on this forum about use of Mixamp etc, we have not had a chance to try that our self yet, though we plan to do some testing. Based on my understanding on what the Miamp does, it would create its own spatialization but the Mixamp cannot use the Headtracking information from Mobius. You will have two options:

1. It may be better to turn off ambiance on Mobius but leave 3D on for head tracking. My guess is it will be OK but not ideal and I do not know how good the rear spatial cues will be.
2. Or to switch off 3D on Mobius in which case it will behave as a great pair of headphone that faithfully reproduces whatever Mixamp sends but without any head tracking

Another way to connect would be the use of a Bluetooth dongle on PS4, we have not tested this but here too only 2 channels are supported over BT (BT is band limited and does not support more than 2 channels).

 

[mashuto]

One way to connect to a console is through Aux input and you will get 2ch with stereo emulation along with head tracking (i.e feels like two floor standing speaker in front of you but no rear channels). Currently we are not aware of way to get 5.1/or 7.1 channel output from any console to Mobius as the only way to experience 5.1/7.1 channel surround on Mobius is through USB input. There have been posts on this forum about use of Mixamp etc, we have not had a chance to try that our self yet, though we plan to do some testing. Based on my understanding on what the Miamp does, it would create its own spatialization but the Mixamp cannot use the Headtracking information from Mobius. You will have two options:

1. It may be better to turn off ambiance on Mobius but leave 3D on for head tracking. My guess is it will be OK but not ideal and I do not know how good the rear spatial cues will be.
2. Or to switch off 3D on Mobius in which case it will behave as a great pair of headphone that faithfully reproduces whatever Mixamp sends but without any head tracking

Another way to connect would be the use of a Bluetooth dongle on PS4, we have not tested this but here too only 2 channels are supported over BT (BT is band limited and does not support more than 2 channels).

I am not who you were responding to, but I had somewhat of a followup question. I currently have a sennheiser GSX, which has excellent 3d virtualization. I could in essence still use that and connect the aux output to the headphones and still be able to use the virtualization there. In essence 3d sound. But, obviously the virtualization built in to the headphones would need to be switched off (if it would even work at that point since it would just be 2 channel audio it is receiving). I assume I could still use the head tracking, but I also imagine that the virtualization and head tracking work together to create the effect, and attempting to use the head tracking with an external 3d virtualization would i imagine create some very weird and undesirable effects. Correct?

So, at the end of the day, still totally able to head the headphones with other 3d virtualization systems, just would not be able to use the built in virtualization/head tracking properly.

 

[Khragon]

My impression is that this is PC gaming only. You can’t get surround sound signal to the Mobius any other way except USB.

 

[Khragon]

I still don’t know even on PC how I can use surround sound from Netflix or Vudu streaming to the Mobius. @Audeze please help clarify. Thanks

 

[AxelCloris]

I assume I could still use the head tracking, but I also imagine that the virtualization and head tracking work together to create the effect, and attempting to use the head tracking with an external 3d virtualization would i imagine create some very weird and undesirable effects. Correct?

I don't know of a way to separate the Mobius's head tracking from the the 3D processing, they're tightly integrated. My experience tells me that if you want to use head tracking, 3D spatialization processing will be active. Now whether that's undesirable or not would be up to the individual to decide. It was certainly different, but I enjoyed "stacking" the processing when I tried it.

Since the GSX you're using is PC only, I'd suggest sticking with the Mobius's 3D processing. I can't think of a reason to use an external 3D processor when you have access to the Mobius's. For PC use, USB > Mobius will give you the best results.

So, at the end of the day, still totally able to head the headphones with other 3d virtualization systems, just would not be able to use the built in virtualization/head tracking properly.

Yep, you can use the Mobius like any other headphone with the GSX when the head tracking is disabled.

I still don’t know even on PC how I can use surround sound from Netflix or Vudu streaming to the Mobius. @Audeze please help clarify. Thanks

Plug it into the computer's USB port and the computer will see it as a multichannel device. As long as a streaming service can output surround sound to the Mobius, you can use the 3D spatialization as it was intended. I did some testing with Netflix and it worked well. I didn't try Vudu, so I can't comment on that one.

 

[Khragon]

I don't know of a way to separate the Mobius's head tracking from the the 3D processing, they're tightly integrated. My experience tells me that if you want to use head tracking, 3D spatialization processing will be active. Now whether that's undesirable or not would be up to the individual to decide. It was certainly different, but I enjoyed "stacking" the processing when I tried it.

Since the GSX you're using is PC only, I'd suggest sticking with the Mobius's 3D processing. I can't think of a reason to use an external 3D processor when you have access to the Mobius's. For PC use, USB > Mobius will give you the best results.


Yep, you can use the Mobius like any other headphone with the GSX when the head tracking is disabled.


Plug it into the computer's USB port and the computer will see it as a multichannel device. As long as a streaming service can output surround sound to the Mobius, you can use the 3D spatialization as it was intended. I did some testing with Netflix and it worked well. I didn't try Vudu, so I can't comment on that one.

Cool, thanks. Which browser did you use? Can you please give vudu a try as well? I have extensive collection of movies there and it would be great to know Mobius will work for them.

Thanks

 

[mashuto]

I don't know of a way to separate the Mobius's head tracking from the the 3D processing, they're tightly integrated. My experience tells me that if you want to use head tracking, 3D spatialization processing will be active. Now whether that's undesirable or not would be up to the individual to decide. It was certainly different, but I enjoyed "stacking" the processing when I tried it.

Since the GSX you're using is PC only, I'd suggest sticking with the Mobius's 3D processing. I can't think of a reason to use an external 3D processor when you have access to the Mobius's. For PC use, USB > Mobius will give you the best results

I am not planning on using these with the GSX, I am just exploring a potential use case. People have been asking for consoles, and it seems to be they can still get 3d audio, it will just have to be processed via the consoles own hrtf. With the 3d turned off on the mobius. In my case I used the GSX as an example because it sounds like I could just turn the 3d processing off on the headphones, and use the gsx processing. Still 3d audio, processed externally, and no head tracking. Since at that point all the mobius would see would be a 2 channel source.

The question was what would happen if you did "stack" the effects. I imagine it would not be desirable. As the already virtualized 2 channel audio would then essentially sound like it was coming from two front speakers. I imagine that would just completely screw with the positional cues and would sound very messy.

 

[AxelCloris]

Cool, thanks. Which browser did you use? Can you please give vudu a try as well? I have extensive collection of movies there and it would be great to know Mobius will work for them.

I used the Mobius with Chrome on both my PC and iMac. The prototype had to be sent back, so I can't do any more testing at the moment. Once we have one in-house again I'll be sure to subject it to more testing. There's still a number of things I want to try, like connecting it to my Steam Link and seeing if I can stream multichannel media from my desktop.

The question was what would happen if you did "stack" the effects. I imagine it would not be desirable. As the already virtualized 2 channel audio would then essentially sound like it was coming from two front speakers. I imagine that would just completely screw with the positional cues and would sound very messy.

It'll be entirely down to personal preferences. If you're looking for the most accurate positional cues, then you won't get them with stacked processing. Like you said, the Mobius will be virtualizing a pair of speakers. MLE and I were comparing notes about stacking surround processing, and he didn't seem too keen on it. It could come down to the games we were playing. I believe he tried it with a first-person game where surround cues can be critical, where as I was playing a third-person game. Having the head tracking on for me gave the impression of a more open, expansive world. I don't think I'd use the Mobius's processing with something like Overwatch on console, but I'll definitely try it again with MHW. I tend to only play competitive first-person games on the PC, where the Mobius is completely at home with 3D enabled.

 

[mashuto]

It'll be entirely down to personal preferences. If you're looking for the most accurate positional cues, then you won't get them with stacked processing. Like you said, the Mobius will be virtualizing a pair of speakers. MLE and I were comparing notes about stacking surround processing, and he didn't seem too keen on it. It could come down to the games we were playing. I believe he tried it with a first-person game where surround cues can be critical, where as I was playing a third-person game. Having the head tracking on for me gave the impression of a more open, expansive world. I don't think I'd use the Mobius's processing with something like Overwatch on console, but I'll definitely try it again with MHW. I tend to only play competitive first-person games on the PC, where the Mobius is completely at home with 3D enabled.

Based on the admittedly little I know about hrtf and surround virtualization, I just cant imagine that stacking them would provide any real benefit. I assume that surround virtualization is all done with the assumption that the actual speakers from the headphones are fixed, since I imagine all the cues are encoded into the sound with that in mind. Processing that again would just I believe screw with that. Doing it this way with the mobius would be similar to sending virtualized 2 channel audio to a pair of speakers. So I know its not a real way to "trick" the system into giving you surround, but again, its not like you cant have 3d audio on a console, you just wont get the extra benefits of the mobius 3d audio, and would instead have to use it just like you would use any other pair of headphones.

In your third person game though did you actually get better results than just trying it with the mobius 3d on a non virtualized regular 2 channel source?

Anyways, for my uses, I tend to use it as intended for gaming. Plugged into my PC via USB, and using just the mobius 3d and head tracking features. I have heard great virtualization before and it has been a staple of my gaming setup for years at this point, but with head tracking, I just imagine it will really make the positional audio that much more convincing. And I am especially excited to hear it as if its coming from actual fixed speaker positions. And of course I am looking forward to just having a wireless pair of headphones to use for music.

 

[Zyker]

My impression is that this is PC gaming only. You can’t get surround sound signal to the Mobius any other way except USB.

MLE said that something like the X7 should be able to output 5.1 blue tooth audio via its aux port using something like this.

 

[KMann]

Based on the admittedly little I know about hrtf and surround virtualization, I just cant imagine that stacking them would provide any real benefit. I assume that surround virtualization is all done with the assumption that the actual speakers from the headphones are fixed, since I imagine all the cues are encoded into the sound with that in mind. Processing that again would just I believe screw with that. Doing it this way with the mobius would be similar to sending virtualized 2 channel audio to a pair of speakers. So I know its not a real way to "trick" the system into giving you surround, but again, its not like you cant have 3d audio on a console, you just wont get the extra benefits of the mobius 3d audio, and would instead have to use it just like you would use any other pair of headphones.

In your third person game though did you actually get better results than just trying it with the mobius 3d on a non virtualized regular 2 channel source?

Anyways, for my uses, I tend to use it as intended for gaming. Plugged into my PC via USB, and using just the mobius 3d and head tracking features. I have heard great virtualization before and it has been a staple of my gaming setup for years at this point, but with head tracking, I just imagine it will really make the positional audio that much more convincing. And I am especially excited to hear it as if its coming from actual fixed speaker positions. And of course I am looking forward to just having a wireless pair of headphones to use for music.

The best analogy I can think of is listening to the Barber shop except using speakers. You don't get the same 'wow' effect but with Head tracking enabled, when you move your head the 'barber shop' will not move with you.

 

[433521]

So if I'm playing a vr game, and I turn my head, doesn't the game adjust the audio for my head's position? So if the headphone ALSO adjusts the audio, isn't this going to lead to over correction?

 

[Saljon]

There is one question constantly floating in my mind I have not yet seen asked elsewhere.
How... let's say "upgrade friendly" is my new Copper colored investment?

How many of the DSP effects are "hardwired" and how much could be changed via firmeware upgrades and the like?

I'm always a little... grumpy when companys throw something for 400$/€ on the market just to release an "upgraded" version the comming year or so which isn't really a quality but "feature" change that could have been an "upgrade pack" for the existing hardware if the Processing unit would have been external or software upgradeable.

I would especially love to know the following:

• Is there a possibility of upgrading to Dolby Atmos Headphone for the currently available Mobius via updates OR hardware upgrade kits(Dongle etc.)?
• Is there a possibility of a Mixamp/Dongle solution that would benefit console gamers?

I'm not talking about promises, just actual possibilities. Are these points even remotely possible for the current Mobius or is it already clear that I will have to look for a gullible buyer of the "old" hardware two years down to finance my new and upgraded Audeze Mobius v2?

I'm not trying to be disrespectful. Just hoping for the impossible(?).

 

[mashuto]

So if I'm playing a vr game, and I turn my head, doesn't the game adjust the audio for my head's position? So if the headphone ALSO adjusts the audio, isn't this going to lead to over correction?

I believe for VR, the 3d features are redundant since VR headsets already do virtualization and head tracking (and probably do head tracking even better due to external fixed tracking), but they could still be used. And for non-vr games, the way I have been envisioning it is that even though you move your viewpoint and the sound moves, the 3d features of the headphones will essentially make it so its like you are playing out of a set of fixed position surround speakers. You still move your view and your head, but that seems pretty natural to me.