[whitemouse]

I upgraded from the iSine 20 to the i4 and the i4 from the first 20 second of listening was a noticeable an IMHO big step up in just about every way in terms of sound. I posted my comparison impressions several times in their thread, but there is more bass and treble extension, texture, and detail; more transparent, holographic sound; more detail; the i4 scales better the better sources you use; the i4 is airier and more open sounding; there is better instrument separation and placement; etc. It seems that to the majority of others (at least in this forum) who have heard both, the i4 is a noticeable step up. Others have asked how much of a step up, and I’m not going to try to quantify it

/snip/

I will also say that while I found that the iSine 20s benefitted hugely from EQ, I was very happy with the i4s sound without any eq at all. I have listened extensively to Tidal via roon fed into a Hugo2 and then the i4 both with and without the Audeze i4 eq preset and the difference to my ears between eq and no eq, while there, is pretty subtle

Thank you!

Opinion of someone moving from isine 20 to LCD i4 impressions is everything I was hoping for. Thank you for taking the time!
Advice along the lines of 'look harder', in order to audition LCD i4 are of no value. Audio boutiques do not stock Audeze's custom made, special order ear gear. MungkongGadget does have LCD - 4 in stock, usually, but not every time, I pop in to their Amarin Plaza flagship shore once a week to listen to Stax, Audeze LCD - 4 are usually available, not once have they had LCDi4 for auditioning.

Thank you, sorrick, I did read your earlier posts in this thread, somehow I missed them before.

You are right, it is impossible to put a numeric value on how much i4 are better than isine 20.
Incremental differences in audio quality are subjective to begin with, for many people LCD2 are all they need, they don't consider LCD 3's price worth spending over 'minor' improvement. But to others the LCD 3 are completely different animal, and after hearing the 3, there's no going back to LCD 2, other than keeping them as back up.

Probably same applies to LCD i4. Once you listened to them, you won't accept anything less.

Seems I will place an order for i4.
One nagging thing - Audeze replied, and they do not offer i4 without the $400 wondercable.
So I'm going to have to drop $400 for something that I have zero use for. Things like this keep me awake at night, nagging feeling that I just threw away $400. Seems unfair. And dumb. The cable isnti attached. It is completely separate item in Audeze catalogue, yet it's tied to LCD i4 as a mandatory item, and expense. Why?
For years Audeze was commended for resisting participating in the cable game. Sure, LCD 2 and 3 cables were badly built, and for $5 more Audeze could have ordered a cable with slightly thicker rubber sleeve from Chinese cable manufacturer, instead they opted for thinnest cable, cables that failed very quickly at XLR Mini stress points. Audeze gave up when they released LCD 4, a thick, blue cable made appearance. Sure, they watched, as cable 'manufacturers' made nice profits offering expensive cables for their LCD line.

At cable games, Audeze is now all in with their $400 i4 cable. Good for them! But potential i4 buyer should be able to opt out, and use newly ourchased LCD i4 with his/hers own $15 cable, which is just as good as the $400 cable, or a $4000 cable for that matter.

But my mind is made up, I'm going to buy LCD i4, minus the $400 cable! There are few around at 2000€, but not from Audeze.

 

[sorrick]

Thank you!

Opinion of someone moving from isine 20 to LCD i4 impressions is everything I was hoping for. Thank you for taking the time!
Advice along the lines of 'look harder', in order to audition LCD i4 are of no value. Audio boutiques do not stock Audeze's custom made, special order ear gear. MungkongGadget does have LCD - 4 in stock, usually, but not every time, I pop in to their Amarin Plaza flagship shore once a week to listen to Stax, Audeze LCD - 4 are usually available, not once have they had LCDi4 for auditioning.

Thank you, sorrick, I did read your earlier posts in this thread, somehow I missed them before.

You are right, it is impossible to put a numeric value on how much i4 are better than isine 20.
Incremental differences in audio quality are subjective to begin with, for many people LCD2 are all they need, they don't consider LCD 3's price worth spending over 'minor' improvement. But to others the LCD 3 are completely different animal, and after hearing the 3, there's no going back to LCD 2, other than keeping them as back up.

Probably same applies to LCD i4. Once you listened to them, you won't accept anything less.

Seems I will place an order for i4.
One nagging thing - Audeze replied, and they do not offer i4 without the $400 wondercable.
So I'm going to have to drop $400 for something that I have zero use for. Things like this keep me awake at night, nagging feeling that I just threw away $400. Seems unfair. And dumb. The cable isnti attached. It is completely separate item in Audeze catalogue, yet it's tied to LCD i4 as a mandatory item, and expense. Why?
For years Audeze was commended for resisting participating in the cable game. Sure, LCD 2 and 3 cables were badly built, and for $5 more Audeze could have ordered a cable with slightly thicker rubber sleeve from Chinese cable manufacturer, instead they opted for thinnest cable, cables that failed very quickly at XLR Mini stress points. Audeze gave up when they released LCD 4, a thick, blue cable made appearance. Sure, they watched, as cable 'manufacturers' made nice profits offering expensive cables for their LCD line.

At cable games, Audeze is now all in with their $400 i4 cable. Good for them! But potential i4 buyer should be able to opt out, and use newly ourchased LCD i4 with his/hers own $15 cable, which is just as good as the $400 cable, or a $4000 cable for that matter.

But my mind is made up, I'm going to buy LCD i4, minus the $400 cable! There are few around at 2000€, but not from Audeze.

I’m not sure I follow you on the the i4 cable. The stock i4 cable (which is a great, high quality cable terminated in a 3.5mm plug) comes free with the i4s. To buy the stock i4 cable separately from the i4s is $400, but you aren’t paying for it when you buy the headphones, it just comes with them. Audeze will also ship you the i4 balanced cipher cable for use with idevices for free if you are an i4 owner. The $2499 price is for the headphones, not the cable. The way I thought about it was I was buying a pair of $2500 headphones and got a very nice cable for free (actually two free cables bc I opted for a cipher cable as well).

 

[whitemouse]

I’m not sure I follow you on the the i4 cable. The stock i4 cable (which is a great, high quality cable terminated in a 3.5mm plug) comes free with the i4s. To buy the stock i4 cable separately from the i4s is $400, but you aren’t paying for it when you buy the headphones, it just comes with them. Audeze will also ship you the i4 balanced cipher cable for use with idevices for free if you are an i4 owner. The $2499 price is for the headphones, not the cable. The way I thought about it was I was buying a pair of $2500 headphones and got a very nice cable for free (actually two free cables bc I opted for a cipher cable as well).

Since Audeze sells this cable at cost of $400, I assume this the true cost of this cable.

Yes, it is included in the $2500 price of LCD i4. But I assume the cable isn't thrown in for free, in order to sweeten the deal, but rather a $400 expense, and part of the LCD i4 retail price.

I was hoping to opt out and not buy this cable, not unreasonable request, is it? It is certainly worth $400, Audeze wouldn't simply come up with this figure out of thin air, correct? So Audeze can sell their $400 to customers who wish to buy it. I do not.

Would it be unreasonable to offer i4 without the $400 cable, and price the LCD i4 at $2100?

If a cable absolutely needs to be part of the set, throw in the isine cable, and charge... I don't know, let's be generous, $5 for it, so overall set of LCD i4, with basic isine noodle cable would cost $2105.00.

No?

 

[whitemouse]

I’m not sure I follow you on the the i4 cable. The stock i4 cable (which is a great, high quality cable terminated in a 3.5mm plug) comes free with the i4s. To buy the stock i4 cable separately from the i4s is $400, but you aren’t paying for it when you buy the headphones, it just comes with them. Audeze will also ship you the i4 balanced cipher cable for use with idevices for free if you are an i4 owner. The $2499 price is for the headphones, not the cable. The way I thought about it was I was buying a pair of $2500 headphones and got a very nice cable for free (actually two free cables bc I opted for a cipher cable as well).

This is going to be a disaster, not going to make any friends here, but we're way past that.

A $400 cable is part of LCD i4 package, $2500 IEM, most people would agree this is expensive head gear. No expensive to me, given what Planars, and Planar IEMs are capable of. To me they are near end game, couple of thousand is not much for State Of The Art.

However, I never enjoyed being taken for a ride. Unfortunately part of the (relativly) high cost of i4 is the cable, it makes up roughly one fifth of the cost.
With no way to opt out, no way to buy LCDi4 for $2100 USD.

2 photos now. First is off pic fromfrom Au web store, their $400 LCDi4 cable.

Second pic below, my isine 20, with a balanced cable, a well made cable with all metal plugs, well grounded. Plugs on my cable are polished Al.

Audeze cable seems superficially similar, it also uses Al plugs, the only difference, plugs are Anodised black. Anodising does not add significantly to overall cost.

Look closely at the pic of my cable's TRRS plug, there is another 2.5mm TRRS plug next to the cable. Looks familiar? Anybody wants to guess how that plug costs? And how much my Balanced cable costs?

Bedroom is dark. Another pic of this plug, close up:

 

[echineko]

Advice along the lines of 'look harder', in order to audition LCD i4 are of no value. Audio boutiques do not stock Audeze's custom made, special order ear gear. MungkongGadget does have LCD - 4 in stock, usually, but not every time, I pop in to their Amarin Plaza flagship shore once a week to listen to Stax, Audeze LCD - 4 are usually available, not once have they had LCDi4 for auditioning.

Is this how describe someone who was literally trying to help you where you're from? Interesting.

Fact remains, Southeast Asia is the biggest market for IEMs/related gear outside Japan, almost anything you need to audition is generally available, you just need to know where to look. Your comments above remain false. Other than Bangkok and Singapore, I personally auditioned them in KL last weekend as well.

I happen to know the BKK Audio people, they confirmed they have the i4 in stock. Go try it, don't try it, whatever. I'm done.

 

[whitemouse]

I’m not sure I follow you on the the i4 cable. The stock i4 cable (which is a great, high quality cable terminated in a 3.5mm plug) comes free with the i4s. To buy the stock i4 cable separately from the i4s is $400, but you aren’t paying for it when you buy the headphones, it just comes with them. Audeze will also ship you the i4 balanced cipher cable for use with idevices for free if you are an i4 owner. The $2499 price is for the headphones, not the cable. The way I thought about it was I was buying a pair of $2500 headphones and got a very nice cable for free (actually two free cables bc I opted for a cipher cable as well).

That is one way of looking at it.

But it doesn't work quite like that. The cable that comes with LCD i4 is not thrown in for free, this cable has price attached to it, and that price is $400.

Yes, it comes in a box with LCD i4, after you pay $2500 for set of Audeze IEMs. But I doubt the cable is thrown in as a freeby. Audeze is a business, not a charity.

Look at it this way, Breitling Navitimer with a Stainless Steel Breitling Pilot Bracelet CO111 will cost you 4500€, starting price.
Does it mean that Breitling threw in the bracelet for free? Afterall, it comes in a retail box, it comes with the watch.

When you buy this same Navitimer with a rubber strap, price drops, significantly.
That is because Breitling's CO111 is priced at 1300€, while their rubber straps go for few hundred €.

Main thing, they give you an option. You know why? Because Breitling has been in business for long time. Customer can opt out, and chose to not lay out 1300€ for something they have no need for. Audeze hasn't learned that yet. They will tho, after somehow points out to them that they will sell more i4, if they gave buyer options, as far as cables go. In audio community, there are believers of expensive cables = better sound, and people who are convinced a well made, quality cable doesn't have to cost more than $10.

As Audeze customer, I have no need for their $400 cable, but I can't opt out, as per company policy.

If I worked at Audeze marketing dept, I'd bend bend over backwards to sell LCDi4 to as many people as possible.
Market of $2500 head gear is limited.

I design loudspeakers. Head gear is different market, granted, but some things are constant - personal audio gear over $1000 is hard sell, market is oversaturated, and next yesr even more do, Chinese will come up with their version of Planar IEM, just like they did with full size Planars. Manufacturers and dealers should grab a potential customer by their neck.

I wonder if Sankar knows? For some reason I think Sankar would happily sell i4 for $2100, minus the cable. But I'm just guessing.

 

[baiyy1986]

Since Audeze is a business, not a charity.
Trust me, if they give you a crappy cable, LCD i4 will still be 2500

 

[whitemouse]

Maybe you just need to visit other stores. Zeppelin & Co in Singapore has them, tried them when I was last in town recently.

I’m quite sure you can find them in HK and Bangkok as well, but haven’t been back in a while. Go try them in person, if you’re in Singapore soon.

Since Audeze is a business, not a charity.
Trust me, if they give you a crappy cable, LCD i4 will still be 2500

Yeah, you are probably right. Just wondering how sustainable that approach is for Audeze. Hopefully the $400 cable saves the day /sarcasm

How long did it take for Chinese to clone Audeze first Planar Magnetics, the LCD-2? Not very long.

I bet Chinese are working feverishly on Planar IEM right now. And after Chinese will be offering i4 quality at $1000, the question of Audeze's $400 cable becomes moot.

Don't get me wrong, I'm full blown Audeze fanboy, at one point owning 2 sets of LCD-2 and 2 sets of LCD-3, due to unique way the phones often had to travel across Atlantic to California, and backups were a necessity.

No Hifiman found in my house. But I have a sneaking feelings things in my house are about to change lol. This $400 cable is eating away the love I have for Audeze, love affair that started in 2011. Maybe 7 year itch?

 

[Fafner]

Did anyone use aftermarket cable for LCDi4?

Effect Audio's Horus here, balanced one.

 

[kubig123]

Effect Audio's Horus here, balanced one.

Nice combo!
how does it sound?

 

[Cougar2465]

That is one way of looking at it.

But it doesn't work quite like that. The cable that comes with LCD i4 is not thrown in for free, this cable has price attached to it, and that price is $400......

Ferrari wheels are very expensive if you buy them without the car but it doesn't mean that you can buy a Ferrari without the wheels and use much cheaper wheels that would do the same as the Ferrari's ...

 

[whitemouse]

Ferrari wheels are very expensive if you buy them without the car but it doesn't mean that you can buy a Ferrari without the wheels and use much cheaper wheels that would do the same as the Ferrari's ...

No!



This isn't valid comparison. Car dealerships will sell you a car, and happily with wheels that you, a customer, specify. You have options.

I believe Ferrari also gives buyer options, Ferrari has several wheel designs, allthough most Ferrari models have model specific wheels.
Ferrari wheels are forged Alloy, I believe Oz manufacturers them for Ferrari, and BBS has in past. Other wheel manufacturers have in the past.

But the main reason this comparison doesn't make sense, Ferrari wheels are works of art, you pay for quality, and exclusivity. Ferrari wheels are demonstrably higher quality. You also pay for exclusivity and mythicism that 60 years in car racing gives to Ferrari brand. In a word, you have to be Ferrari, to charge $5000 for 1 wheel. My AMG SL wheels are also forged alloy, but they cost 4000€ set of 4. Because MB is not Ferrari.

Audeze does not give a choice to LCD i4 buyers. It's their generic, $400 cable, or no sale.

Audeze's $400 cable uses $2 plugs, what's exclusive, or superior about that? Audeze print on a plug? I can order this very same plug from China, just like Audeze, and have manufacturer print 'whitemouse' on it.

It would make very good marketing sense for Audeze to give options, when offering $2500 IEM. Not that can't afford this cable, I choose not to buy it. My $15 is as good, and likely comes from same factory, and is identical in every way. To me it's question of making rational, informed buying decisions. A $400 cable, unless made of Platinum, has no place in my collection of toys.

 

[lithiumnk]

No!



This isn't valid comparison. Car dealerships will sell you a car, and happily with wheels that you, a customer, specify. You have options.

I believe Ferrari also gives buyer options, Ferrari has several wheel designs, allthough most Ferrari models have model specific wheels.
Ferrari wheels are forged Alloy, I believe Oz manufacturers them for Ferrari, and BBS has in past. Other wheel manufacturers have in the past.

But the main reason this comparison doesn't make sense, Ferrari wheels are works of art, you pay for quality, and exclusivity. Ferrari wheels are demonstrably higher quality. You also pay for exclusivity and mythicism that 60 years in car racing gives to Ferrari brand. In a word, you have to be Ferrari, to charge $5000 for 1 wheel. My AMG SL wheels are also forged alloy, but they cost 4000€ set of 4. Because MB is not Ferrari.

Audeze does not give a choice to LCD i4 buyers. It's their generic, $400 cable, or no sale.

Audeze's $400 cable uses $2 plugs, what's exclusive, or superior about that? Audeze print on a plug? I can order this very same plug from China, just like Audeze, and have manufacturer print 'whitemouse' on it.

It would make very good marketing sense for Audeze to give options, when offering $2500 IEM. Not that can't afford this cable, I choose not to buy it. My $15 is as good, and likely comes from same factory, and is identical in every way. To me it's question of making rational, informed buying decisions. A $400 cable, unless made of Platinum, has no place in my collection of toys.

I don't know from where audeze gets their cable for lcd i4 but its far superior than other manufacturers . To name a few ... 64 audio tia series, Kaiser encore, katana etc... they have a terrible cable.. i know many people who are using the above mentioned iems and switching to aftermarket cables... on the contrary if you compare lcd i4 lighting cable(without cipher implementation) n the braided cable on an iPhone alone ... the difference is right there .. leave aside the dedicated Daps,dac/amp etc.

 

[Cagin]

No!



This isn't valid comparison. Car dealerships will sell you a car, and happily with wheels that you, a customer, specify. You have options.

I believe Ferrari also gives buyer options, Ferrari has several wheel designs, allthough most Ferrari models have model specific wheels.
Ferrari wheels are forged Alloy, I believe Oz manufacturers them for Ferrari, and BBS has in past. Other wheel manufacturers have in the past.

But the main reason this comparison doesn't make sense, Ferrari wheels are works of art, you pay for quality, and exclusivity. Ferrari wheels are demonstrably higher quality. You also pay for exclusivity and mythicism that 60 years in car racing gives to Ferrari brand. In a word, you have to be Ferrari, to charge $5000 for 1 wheel. My AMG SL wheels are also forged alloy, but they cost 4000€ set of 4. Because MB is not Ferrari.

Audeze does not give a choice to LCD i4 buyers. It's their generic, $400 cable, or no sale.

Audeze's $400 cable uses $2 plugs, what's exclusive, or superior about that? Audeze print on a plug? I can order this very same plug from China, just like Audeze, and have manufacturer print 'whitemouse' on it.

It would make very good marketing sense for Audeze to give options, when offering $2500 IEM. Not that can't afford this cable, I choose not to buy it. My $15 is as good, and likely comes from same factory, and is identical in every way. To me it's question of making rational, informed buying decisions. A $400 cable, unless made of Platinum, has no place in my collection of toys.

Still beating that damn dead horse?

Why don't you then order 15 of your $15, and resell them for $200 and then buy the damn LCD-i4 and resell its audeze premium cable for all I care for 300 and be done with it all this

 

[whitemouse]

Still beating that damn dead horse?

Why don't you then order 15 of your $15, and resell them for $200 and then buy the damn LCD-i4 and resell its audeze premium cable for all I care for 300 and be done with it all this

Not beating anything, I replied to fellow Headfier.

Can you live with that?