[bfreedma]

Maybe you should also mention the measurement graph differences between the GRAS rigs, which is the mostly used Harman reference rig and the 5128 rig that is being used by HeadFi. The measurements in this thread give wrong impressions to people that use a different reference in mind.

This is the crux of the issue - far to many people are making statements based on measurements and methodologies they don't sufficiently understand. The questions shouldn't be around the raw graph, they are better when related to audibility. Is a DAC A better than DAC B because DAC A's noise floor is -124db and DAC B's noise floor is -122db when both numbers are orders of magnitude below audibility?

Spikes? Audible impact nearly totally dependent on how much of an octave the spike covers - narrow enough and it's inaudible.

Headphone measurements are particularly difficult, not only because many posters are unfamiliar with the multiple models and methodologies but because headphone placement is so crucial to consistent results. A fraction of an inch of pad placement variance can have major impact on the measurements used as examples here.

The above is not intended to support the "believe your ears" camp, but to point out that most of the discussion of measurements I'm seeing here don't address audibility. This is a particular issue with those who come over from Amir's forum, where the level of understanding of the objective data generated by that site seems unfortunately low.

Even as a pretty firm objectivist, I don't believe that headphones should be bought on graphs alone. I do find that with a good bit of experience correlating graphs to very basic listening criteria, I can identify headphones that probably won't fit my personal preferences and can knock out perhaps 25-30% of the market without listening. The rest certainly need an audition to see if they are candidates for purchase. The fit on my head may result in significantly different sound due to my individual physiology and how the pads conform - not going to get that from any measurement, at least not yet.

 

[DarginMahkum]

This is a particular issue with those who come over from Amir's forum, where the level of understanding of the objective data generated by that site seems unfortunately low.

I for sure don't want to get swallowed into another measurements discussion, especially where the understanding of measurements is less than ASR, and the willingness to understand them is even less than that. But yeah, it is a complicated subject.

Physiology and psychology are two important parameters. Also years of research Harman did on the subject covers and satisfies only percentage of the population - though large. That brings us to the fact that, part of the objective data (e.g. frequency response) only has a meaning when it is used in reference to some personal preferences. Others like distortion has absolute meanings but audibility is a point to observe.

 

[hop ham]

After a week with LCD-5, I really like them. There is an issue with the finishing on one of the cups which I was disappointed with but the fit is good. LCD-3 will stay for that “old” addictive Audeze weighty creamy sound. Still need to try LCD-5 on other amps. Most of my time has been using Phonitor X and Shanling M30 so far. Really enjoying the tube mode on M30 but Mscaler/Dave to Phonitor X is a more reference sound that is enjoyable in other ways. It depends on what mood I’m in, and how I want to engage with the music.

First thing I noticed was the mids having more presence than I was expecting. The bass is done in a classy way, very capable, not restrained and not calling attention to itself but if you focus on it everything is there including the low rumble and texture and detail.

LCD-5 out of all my headphones comes closest to the type of sound I get from my Genelec 8351B monitors, which is a very good thing for me. Both are more in the balanced, accurate, and not flavorful tuning side of things (I’m guessing some may find this sound not as exciting). They do respond well to what’s in your chain if you want to add flavor.

Having fun testing different combos and comparing

 

[KMann]

There is an issue with the finishing on one of the cups which I was disappointed

Sorry to hear that, please contact support if you wish this to be addressed or just to provide us feedback.

LCD-5 out of all my headphones comes closest to the type of sound I get from my Genelec 8351B monitors, which is a very good thing for me. Both are more in the balanced, accurate, and not flavorful tuning side of things (I’m guessing some may find this sound not as exciting). They do respond well to what’s in your chain if you want to add flavor.

Good to know, I do not have the 8315B but I do have them virtualized via Symth A16

Mscaler/Dave to Phonitor X is a more reference sound that is enjoyable in other ways

As someone who prefers my LCD-5 directly out of DAVE, would like to know what Phonitor X brings. I will be getting a HPA4 next week to see if I can keep most of the transparency out of DAVE.

 

[KMann]

For somebody that found the LCD4's too bright, my ears hurt just looking at this graph. Especially at the fatiguing 3khz where my ears are most sensitive.

I suggest reading reviews and opinion and just skipping the graphs until the point where you have looked at enough graphs and also listened to the corresponding headphones to be able to reliably predict how they will sound for you. I know it is hard to do these days. As many have already said, LCD-5 does not sound the way measurements may make them look.

 

[OneEyedHito]

This is the crux of the issue - far to many people are making statements based on measurements and methodologies they don't sufficiently understand. The questions shouldn't be around the raw graph, they are better when related to audibility. Is a DAC A better than DAC B because DAC A's noise floor is -124db and DAC B's noise floor is -122db when both numbers are orders of magnitude below audibility?

Spikes? Audible impact nearly totally dependent on how much of an octave the spike covers - narrow enough and it's inaudible.

Headphone measurements are particularly difficult, not only because many posters are unfamiliar with the multiple models and methodologies but because headphone placement is so crucial to consistent results. A fraction of an inch of pad placement variance can have major impact on the measurements used as examples here.

The above is not intended to support the "believe your ears" camp, but to point out that most of the discussion of measurements I'm seeing here don't address audibility. This is a particular issue with those who come over from Amir's forum, where the level of understanding of the objective data generated by that site seems unfortunately low.

Even as a pretty firm objectivist, I don't believe that headphones should be bought on graphs alone. I do find that with a good bit of experience correlating graphs to very basic listening criteria, I can identify headphones that probably won't fit my personal preferences and can knock out perhaps 25-30% of the market without listening. The rest certainly need an audition to see if they are candidates for purchase. The fit on my head may result in significantly different sound due to my individual physiology and how the pads conform - not going to get that from any measurement, at least not yet.

Very Well put, thank you for objective experience. At the end of the day graphs are good for me to find a reference point to what I am hearing and not anything more of value to me, internet arguing aside. For instance the Stealth are a good closed back for around $3Kusd, the Susvara great for $4Kusd, and the Utopia Great for around $2500usd on all of the mid range hardware I have listened on regardless of what the graph says to my hearing. The LCD5 would seem to be a good mix of those 3 headphones from what I have read here by folks listening / assessing them and if I look at the graphs comparatively. It is the only piece I need to add to the stable currently to see if there is a center piece beyond the Susvara for me.

 

[metal571]

The graphs Jude posts are uncompensated raws. Ear gain peaking around 3k is expected due to the pinna shape on the HATS.

These graphs are best interpreted with another headphone FR overlaid that many are familiar with like the 650, which has been provided already.

And like @KMann says, trust your own ears more above 2k. Running a sine sweep test on my own head, the real world location of the peaks I hear in the treble on many headphones, not just Audezes, does not match where it is shown on the graphs, even when the measurement is made with an industry standard GRAS 45CA, for example.

 

[jlbrach]

For somebody that found the LCD4's too bright, my ears hurt just looking at this graph. Especially at the fatiguing 3khz where my ears are most sensitive.

if you found the lcd-4 too bright I am not sure which HP alternative you wouldnt find too bright

 

[number1sixerfan]

Measurements are tearing this community apart lol

Jokes aside, loving all of the additional real life impressions. Lot of positive coming from the people that have actually heard them. I'm definitely intrigued.

 

[Securitiesfraud]

After a week with LCD-5, I really like them. There is an issue with the finishing on one of the cups which I was disappointed with but the fit is good. LCD-3 will stay for that “old” addictive Audeze weighty creamy sound. Still need to try LCD-5 on other amps. Most of my time has been using Phonitor X and Shanling M30 so far. Really enjoying the tube mode on M30 but Mscaler/Dave to Phonitor X is a more reference sound that is enjoyable in other ways. It depends on what mood I’m in, and how I want to engage with the music.

First thing I noticed was the mids having more presence than I was expecting. The bass is done in a classy way, very capable, not restrained and not calling attention to itself but if you focus on it everything is there including the low rumble and texture and detail.

LCD-5 out of all my headphones comes closest to the type of sound I get from my Genelec 8351B monitors, which is a very good thing for me. Both are more in the balanced, accurate, and not flavorful tuning side of things (I’m guessing some may find this sound not as exciting). They do respond well to what’s in your chain if you want to add flavor.

Having fun testing different combos and comparing

Have u tried out susvara/1266? If so how do they compare?

 

[Livnmuskoka]

I suggest reading reviews and opinion and just skipping the graphs until the point where you have looked at enough graphs and also listened to the corresponding headphones to be able to reliably predict how they will sound for you. I know it is hard to do these days. As many have already said, LCD-5 does not sound the way measurements may make them look.

I know speaker graphs very well, and know exactly what I like. But I'm not there with headphone graphs yet.

 

[Livnmuskoka]

if you found the lcd-4 too bright I am not sure which HP alternative you wouldnt find too bright

LCD-3F. I also found Utopia too bright, Clear way too bright, Elear were good but preferred the planar sound. Haven't heard many higher end headphones yet.

 

[catscratch]

And like @KMann says, trust your own ears more above 2k. Running a sine sweep test on my own head, the real world location of the peaks I hear in the treble on many headphones, not just Audezes, does not match where it is shown on the graphs, even when the measurement is made with an industry standard GRAS 45CA, for example.

This.

People do hear very similarly up to about 2k. Between 2-4k, hearing starts to diverge, and above 4-5k there are very real differences between how people perceive the highs. I really do wish someone would take a binaural mic, and measure the same headphone on many different sets of actual human ears so that we see what variation there really is. I saw Oluv do something similar between him and oratory1990, but it should be done in a more controlled environment.

 

[KMann]

I know speaker graphs very well, and know exactly what I like. But I'm not there with headphone graphs yet.

Don't beat yourself over it, I have been doing this for about 10 years now, and I still cannot predict how a new headphone would sound based on graphs. I can easily tell you what to expect if I keep the same earpads and just swap different drivers out

 

[Livnmuskoka]

LCD-3F. I also found Utopia too bright, Clear way too bright, Elear were good but preferred the planar sound. Haven't heard many higher end headphones yet. LCD3F's

LCD-3F. I also found Utopia too bright, Clear way too bright, Elear were good but preferred the planar sound. Haven't heard many higher end headphones yet.

Right now I have an RME adi-2 dac fs and LCD-3F's and love the sound as is, with no EQ needed. I spent some time adjusting the EQ including the recommended harman curve or similar, and I prefer the stock sound more.
I'm slowly starting to look for an even more transparent and detailed headphone without any extra brightness, but starting to think that it doesn't exist. Not from what I've heard or read so far anyway. Maybe for my ears I just won't find better, and should be happy about not spending more money. It's still an incredible combo anyway.