Audeze LCD-5 Review, Measurements, Interview

[LongBeforeShort]

And people talking about 5W headphone amps...

While you do need headroom for peaks, you don't need several watts... I've discussed this with an accomplished amp designer, and he went into detail about this "headroom" myth. The tl;dr was that headroom doesn't exist in the same sense that many audiophiles think it does. Was a pretty interesting convo.

Using power hungry, inefficient planars to test this (Argon Mk3)... I couldn't hear a difference between two high quality headamps. One being ~3W, another being about 500mW. I think there's just a critical point of having "enough." Of course it can get more complicated than that, but point is my ears couldn't tell the difference.
YMMV.

That is true, actually, 200-300mW is enough to drive pretty much anything, aside from the likes of HE6, Susvara, because there would be no headroom left for quiet music, have tested it myself with balanced cable + switch box and level matching. The only amps that sound different are tube and hybrid amps. But i would be carefull with hybrids, because one i have tested sounded pretty much the same as ss, could not really tell it apart. Another one i could tell apart 10/10. Unless you got the option to compare like this its hard to tell the difference without level matching

There is also an dac/amp around 70$ you can buy, which is enough to drive any headphone on the market with headroom left for almost all songs and one for around 299$ i belive from Topping, EX5 that is everything anyone could ever need, if EQ/Bass Enhancement (without PC) is a thing.

If this headphone gives either the Susvara or Utopia a serious challenge, I'll be shocked. I base that on its posted measurements coupled with Audeze's track record (I'm not particularly a fan of any previous efforts, although I did find the bass of the LCD-4 rather seductive). That said, I will audition them at CanJam with an open mind, along with the CRBN, and post my impressions thereafter.

Well, i had a couple of people blind testing the Susvara against an LCD-2 with oratory EQ + slight EQ changes from myself and the LCD-2 won most of the time with 20 tracks from different genres and personally, i find the LCD-2, as well HD800S with EQ and ZMF Auteur with EQ better than the Susvara with and without EQ. Regardless of that its still one of the best sounding headphones i've heard without any EQ applied, very well balanced. Only thing i dislike about the susvara is, that the sound seems to be vibrating to me at lower levels, especially the bass seems to be not clean because of that. But it got beaten by much cheaper headphones in my opinion, if EQ is not a problem and your head/earshape fit&comfort is okay.

I did the blind tests because i wasn't sure if my opinion is super unique and the persons i have tested didn't know anything about the price.

 

[alishafai]

DAC and Amp choices are quite personal, for my preferences, it is a good pairing and portable too.

Hi, @KMann I placed my order this morning, and I'm looking so forward to receiving LCD-5 .

I'm intending on using the LCD-5 with Woo WA22, which I'm thinking should be more than enough power to drive them with ease, with plenty of headroom. I've run my '21 LCD-X on this amp, and it sounds gorgeous.

I see that the LCD-X shares its low impedance with the LCD-5, though LCD-X is more sensitive.

What are your thoughts on this class of amp paired with the LCD-5?

Thank you.

 

[cwoo]

That is true, actually, 200-300mW is enough to drive pretty much anything, aside from the likes of HE6, Susvara, because there would be no headroom left for quiet music, have tested it myself with balanced cable + switch box and level matching. The only amps that sound different are tube and hybrid amps. But i would be carefull with hybrids, because one i have tested sounded pretty much the same as ss, could not really tell it apart.

There is also an dac/amp around 70$ you can buy, which is enough to drive any headphone on the market with headroom left for almost all songs and one for around 299$ i belive from Topping, EX5 that is everything anyone could ever need, if EQ/Bass Enhancement (without PC) is a thing.



Well, i had a couple of people blind testing the Susvara against an LCD-2 with oratory EQ + slight EQ changes from myself and the LCD-2 won most of the time with 20 tracks from different genres and personally, i find the LCD-2, as well HD800S with EQ and ZMF Auteur with EQ better than the Susvara with and without EQ. Regardless of that its still one of the best sounding headphones i've heard without any EQ applied, very well balanced. Only thing i dislike about the susvara is, that the sound seems to be vibrating to me at lower levels, especially the bass seems to be not clean because of that. But it got beaten by much cheaper headphones, if EQ is not a problem

I did the blind tests because i wasn't sure if my opinion is super unique and the persons i have tested didn't know anything about the price.

Seems like you are missing a lot of variables here. Were these listeners audiophiles or trained listeners?, Did they know the tracks?, what was your source for music?, Did you use EQ on and off for each headphone? What kind tracks did you play?, What DAC, What Amp, how controlled was the test?, Did you just look for general impressions?, Did you have a score sheet and full reviews?, Was it actually blind?, Were the headphones volume matched?, How many people?, What kind of music?, etc.

So many "blind" tests I have read about do a terrible job of actually doing it scientifically, but they are passed off as "science" and "conclusive"...

Seems like we are off topic, but if you are going to be comparing the LCD-5 to any of these other headphones you listed, you definitely want to make sure you set the precedent and scoring factors for the test.

 

[dleblanc343]

Listening to that garbage tuning of LCD-4 for so long might have influenced people’s evaluation of Stealth. Because a HP is not bass head’s wet dream, and it presents a perfect balance and midrange clarity rather than just “fun”, it doesn’t mean it is bad. I personally wouldn’t pay 500€ For any LCD including the 4. 5 doesn’t seem to be a big departure on the tuning front. Also the distortion is considerably higher. So where does this place 5 if Stealth isn’t worth its price?

Off-Topic

 

[sp33ls]

Hi, @KMann I placed my order this morning, and I'm looking so forward to receiving LCD-5 .

I'm intending on using the LCD-5 with Woo WA22, which I'm thinking should be more than enough power to drive them with ease, with plenty of headroom. I've run my '21 LCD-X on this amp, and it sounds gorgeous.

I see that the LCD-X shares its low impedance with the LCD-5, though LCD-X is more sensitive.

What are your thoughts on this class of amp paired with the LCD-5?

Thank you.

I know you're not asking for my opinion, but I'm going to share it anyways...

That amp delivers 1.5W @ 32 Ohms. You should have plenty of drive, even at 14 Ohms. If you're happy how it sounds with the XC, I imagine you'll probably enjoy it with the 5.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Well, i had a couple of people blind testing the Susvara against an LCD-2 with oratory EQ + slight EQ changes from myself and the LCD-2 won most of the time with 20 tracks from different genres and personally, i find the LCD-2, as well HD800S with EQ and ZMF Auteur with EQ better than the Susvara with and without EQ. Regardless of that its still one of the best sounding headphones i've heard without any EQ applied, very well balanced. Only thing i dislike about the susvara is, that the sound seems to be vibrating to me at lower levels, especially the bass seems to be not clean because of that. But it got beaten by much cheaper headphones, if EQ is not a problem

I did the blind tests because i wasn't sure if my opinion is super unique and the persons i have tested didn't know anything about the price.

Yea... once EQ enters the picture, comparisons (other than for the sake of your own pleasure) should pretty much be thrown out of the window. There's almost no way to do any sort of reliable, scientifically reasonable test with EQ added to various cans--blind or not.

Along the same note, and no disrespect to Canjam, but it's just not a good environment to develop any sort of reliable impressions from. I discount just about all short term impressions, but its environment in particular should be even further discounted.

 

[KMann]

I know you're not asking for my opinion, but I'm going to share it anyways...

That amp delivers 1.5W @ 32 Ohms. You should have plenty of drive, even at 14 Ohms. If you're happy how it sounds with the XC, I imagine you'll probably enjoy it with the 5.

@alishafai
I have not heard the combination but agree with ^^

 

[Sound Eq]

Yes my green LCD4 has just appreciated in value.

totally feel the same way that now LCD4 owners will think twice about selling their lcd4

 

[Sajid Amit]

Seems like you are missing a lot of variables here. Were these listeners audiophiles or trained listeners?, Did they know the tracks?, what was your source for music?, Did you use EQ on and off for each headphone? What kind tracks did you play?, What DAC, What Amp, how controlled was the test?, Did you just look for general impressions?, Did you have a score sheet and full reviews?, Was it actually blind?, Were the headphones volume matched?, How many people?, What kind of music?, etc.

So many "blind" tests I have read about do a terrible job of actually doing it scientifically, but they are passed off as "science" and "conclusive"...

Seems like we are off topic, but if you are going to be comparing the LCD-5 to any of these other headphones you listed, you definitely want to make sure you set the precedent and scoring factors for the test.

Well put, man. These are all essential questions. I might do an expanded experiment at some point but the catch is, there is such a thing as an experienced listener. Heck, some people might prefer a Beats to a Susvara because of what they are used to…

 

[DuncanDirkDick]

Yea... once EQ enters the picture, comparisons (other than for the sake of your own pleasure) should pretty much be thrown out of the window. There's almost no way to do any sort of reliable, scientifically reasonable test with EQ added to various cans--blind or not.

Why do you think that is, exactly?

 

[sp33ls]

Well put, man. These are all essential questions. I might do an expanded experiment at some point but the catch is, there is such a thing as an experienced listener. Heck, some people might prefer a Beats to a Susvara because of what they are used to…

I remember the first time I experienced high end cans... Like 8 years ago, I heard the LCD-2's from a coworker. It was an odd experience. I was so used to my Sony MDR-V6, and the first thing I noticed was "whoa, the instruments and vocals sound so separated... And the bass is so clean."
But, tbh, my brain wasn't used to the sound signature and left thinking "Idk if I'd ever spend that much..."
Lmao, look at me now.
Ironically, typing this with the Z1R's on my head. I just put the MDR-V6 on my head to see how far I've come. Honestly, the V6 is surprisingly good for how much I paid for it over a decade ago. But, yeah.. no soundstage. Lacking immersion.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Why do you think that is, exactly?

1) It's an extremely customizable variable, with potentially drastic implications, that can't be equalized; 2) With EQ a headphone can sound entirely different than the manufacturer even intended it to sound in the first place. I have nothing at all against EQ, I don't knock it at all.. but to me, it just doesn't make much sense comparing EQ'd headphones in the somewhat definitive way mentioned above. The variables at play without it are complicated enough.

 

[LongBeforeShort]

@Sajid Amit

Well put, man. These are all essential questions. I might do an expanded experiment at some point but the catch is, there is such a thing as an experienced listener. Heck, some people might prefer a Beats to a Susvara because of what they are used to…

Could be, i don't know, haven't tested that, i hate the Beats haha. The 2 people with some experience could word better what they heard, but the casual did very well as well. Would be very interesting, if you could performa a level matched listening with a few cans + oratory EQ (not from Auto EQ but his reddit EQ list and pdf file).

I know myself that, the longer you hear different cans and the more experience you've got, it becomes easier to describe to grasp really what you hear, but this doesn't change in my opinion, if you like one headphone over the other, this has never changed for me, just my experience and wording

For example: Arya sounds huge, open, tall to me, ZMF Verite creates a room with specific size, where i listen to the music while the auteur is not as open as the arya, and much narrower compared to both, but sound somewhat open without being able to tell the size of the soundstage in terms of room sizes, because how the soundstage is represented is different to me.

Seems like you are missing a lot of variables here. Were these listeners audiophiles or trained listeners?, Did they know the tracks?, what was your source for music?, Did you use EQ on and off for each headphone? What kind tracks did you play?, What DAC, What Amp, how controlled was the test?, Did you just look for general impressions?, Did you have a score sheet and full reviews?, Was it actually blind?, Were the headphones volume matched?, How many people?, What kind of music?, etc.

So many "blind" tests I have read about do a terrible job of actually doing it scientifically, but they are passed off as "science" and "conclusive"...

Seems like we are off topic, but if you are going to be comparing the LCD-5 to any of these other headphones you listed, you definitely want to make sure you set the precedent and scoring factors for the test.

Ah well, didn't want to get into details, as i was replying to another part of this thread, but to make it short

Spoiler: Answer found here

People
- 5 blindfolded
- 2 of them set up sound in church, theatre, events, rest were casual
- If not blind, everyone would judge everything beforehand.

Source
- Macbook Pro
- Soundsource for EQ
- Apple Music losless

Dac/Amp
- Ifi Audio Micro Signature
- DAC is flat and the Amp can drive everything fine. It was run in bit perfect turbo mode and compared to ifi ican pro, questyle twelve master and headamp GSX Mini and all of them sound the same volume matched with switch box

Listening Volume
- level matched at 85dbA as this was still comfortable enough to most of them, before it gets too loud

Music
- It was important to me to have a broad genre of music in my list, for example:
- Brad Paisley - Whiskey, The fairfield Four - These Bones, The Weekend - Blinding Lights
- Gojira - Drum Solo, The 4 Seasons - Violin Concerto, Casey Abrams - Never Knew (binaural)
- Trentemoller - Evil Dub, ACDC - You shook me all night long, Manu Katche - Keep on trippin
- Nnenna Freelon - Button up your overcoat... and so on (They didn't know all the tracks)

Scoresheet
- I asked about Bass quality, vocals, instruments, which one sounds the most natural, perceived soundstage

Headphones tested
- Heddphone (no EQ), Susvara (no EQ all Songs, EQ 5 Songs), LCD-2 "with EQ" (ZMF Auteur/HD800S only by me) *10 Band PEQ*

Outcome
- The Heddphone was perceived to be too intimate, narrow sounding with lacking bass and as the fastest and most forward in vocals with unnatural instruments and Vocals
- The Susvara was perceived to be very wide sounding, like sitting far in the back but not losing the connection to the music, more natural sounding instruments, a bit forward sounding vocals and a very dynamic bass that hits pretty good
- The LCD-2 was perceived to be the most dynamic of the 3 (loud to quiet), having the most bass with slightly missing speed and more natural sounding instruments and a wide soundstage without being able to tell where they sit in the action, they were described as the headphones with most impact, because it sometimes sounds a bit more flashier

Sadly i could not rent the ZMF Auteur and HD800S as the owners are using them, which is why i only heard them myself. The HD800S too short to judge finally, the ZMF Auteur (with BE2 Pads) were run by +5db low shelf, +1.5db 6K high shelf, +1.5db 10k high shelf and the Qudelix 5K as DAC/AMP with its PEQ. They sound narrower than the LCD-2 with EQ and not completely open, but i find the sound signature to be the smoothest of all cans i have heard so far and instruments sounds the best, if you ask me.

Couldn't test LCD-X/LCD-3/LCD-4 with/without EQ and the Focal Utopia, Peacock is missing as well. It's hard to get these in my town.

 

[DuncanDirkDick]

but to me, it just doesn't make much sense comparing EQ'd headphones

Well, I think his idea is simple and valid. Have a target, ideally something comparable or a rig, EQ your headphones to your target and compare them. With FR impact minimized, other features should stand out. Apparently, for him, they didn't. I personally like EQ, because I like some headphones I couldn't listen to without (eg. LCD-4, 1266, SR-007).

 

[number1sixerfan]

Well, I think his idea is simple and valid. Have a target, ideally something comparable or a rig, EQ your headphones to your target and compare them. With FR impact minimized, other features should stand out. Apparently, for him, they didn't. I personally like EQ, because I like some headphones I couldn't listen to without (eg. LCD-4, 1266, SR-007).

Which matches exactly what I originally said, if you're doing so for your own pleasure it makes total sense. I totally get it. But there's no scientific, reasonable way to make such comparisons with any valuable meaning, and hence presenting 'blind EQ'd tests' with definitive outcomes to the rest of us on this site doesn't really do much. Again, all for people doing their own thing and nothing against EQ