[kwkarth]

Quote:

x2

(dac/source as well).

yup!
 
 

 

[DeadEars]

This is a really hard task you're setting for us...  Not sure it's even possible or relevant.
 
For instance, I heard the RWA Isabellina at the White Plains meet in November with my pair of LCD-2's.  I listened for about 20 minutes while most people were at lunch and things were fairly quiet (for a change).  I really liked what I heard.  But was it a big change for me?  No.  Would it have been a major upgrade over my current gear?  No.   Would I take it if someone offered it to me?  You bet!
 
So your experience in the same room with the same gear might well lead you to a MU H different conclusion based on your current gear and predilections for sound presentation.  It could have been a "Holy Cow" experience for you.  Or maybe you would have simply been bored because your gear is already at a much higher standard according to your tastes.  I'm not sure how my grades for the RWA would help you (although I'd like to help if I could).  In fact, I couldn't give it an A, B, or C, because I couldn't tell you it was better or not.  Certainly different, and perhaps an equally valid perspective on the music.  Internally consistent and highly involving.  But better?  H'mmm.  Not so much.
 
I've generally found only a weak correlation between spending and audio quality.  This is partly because I'm cheap, and would rather build things myself than pay someone else a healthy premium to build something I could duplicate in my basement (albeit, not nearly as pretty when sitting on a shelf).  In 30+ years of this hobby, I can count the OMG! moments on less than ten fingers.  For instance, the LCD-2's are a really nice headphone, but they certainly didn't rock my world.  Whereas the first time I heard SoundLab Electrostatic speakers in a well set-up room, with music I know well, brought tears to my eyes.  Of course, they were well over $10 grand, but I certainly appreciated the accomplishment.  I had a similar experience when I heard a Zyx moving coil cartridge on a Tri-planar tonearm via a Galibier turntable, playing a recording of Bach's 4th Brandenburg Concerto.  At that moment I would have sold my soul to be able to have that gear in my system.  Calbrating your ears by listening to the really spectacular stuff can really help you assign priorities and help you decide where it is worth your while to spend or not.  And every once in a while you might luck out for cheap. 
 
HTH,
 
Frank
 
 

 

[FH123]

OK. Anyone know the Isabellina? I have the impression (only from reading) that Red Wine Audio's house-sound deliberately departs from neutrality into the warm and "comfortable" region.

 

[fiver]

Quote:

Done.
 
 

I think you should run for a political office.  You'd have my support and my vote.

 

[FH123]

Frank, your post is helping. Wouldn't be any fun, if this was easy. I've got to go now though...

 

[sferic]

Follow up to my 'Ordered on Jan 30" post - Audeze PM'd me from the posting. I actually believe I may have given them a wrong email address in one of the fields on the order form, but can't be sure.
 
In any cased received my invoice today, paid, so they're finally coming home. It's great they are reading the forums and nothing short of amazing they proactively took care of a potential customer svc issue. Makes me happy to be doing business with this company.
 
There seems to a new breed of American entrepreneur here on Head-Fi. Lot's of great small companies building incredible products at reasonable prices. Gives me hope.

 

[GTL]

How about stagedac->concerto->LCD2?

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

I think you should run for a political office.  You'd have my support and my vote.

Gee, thanks!  What office?  

   

 
 

 

[Vkamicht]

 

Quote:

That's because people who have experienced it know that tiny improvements are big and small changes are HUGE.  BIG changes rarely, if ever, happen beyond the earliest upgrades...ie iPod-only to 1st amp or copmputer stock sound card to 1st DAC.
 

Isn't this feeding into my original idea? That most amps and DACs should in theory be the same... or at least give the same output. Ideally speaking. Let's also not forget that taking your headphones off for an hour then coming back can yield "small changes."
Quote:

I basically think the LCD-2s need a neutral, transparent amp.  
 

 
(oops, I lost the quote that kwkarth quoted in his post about LCD-2 needing a bright amp)
Not trying to derail the thread again, but this is what I'm talking about. The fact that an amp can be described as bright means that there must exist amps which fundamentally color the signal in some way. How is that not flawed? And if it's not a flaw, why isn't it made clear by the company or seller that it emphasizes high frequencies? This is where audio really loses me.
 


 
 

 

[TMoney]

Quote:

I have the impression (only from reading) that Red Wine Audio's house-sound deliberately departs from neutrality into the warm and "comfortable" region.

As an RWA + LCD2 owner I wouldn't really characterize the sound as a "departure from neutrality." Instead, if I had to summarize, I'd say that the RWA is wonderfully musical without having the loss of detail that one usually expects with more laid-back sounding amp/dacs. For me personally, the RWA + LCD2 pairing is about musical enjoyment first and foremost.
 
Before shelling out that kind of money I'd really suggest you make an effort to get out and listen to other amps and discover what you like/don't like about how they pair with the LCD2s. Once you know what you'd like your ideal LCD2 amp to sound like it's a lot easier to recommend an amp that fits those tastes. For me, I happen to like smooth-yet-punchy dynamics and laid-back yet neutral sound. I found that the RWA/LCD2 happened to be a great match for what I was looking for out of my "rig." As we all have our own personal tastes when it comes to sound, what works for me may or may not work for you.
 
I also read Mr. Ebaen's reviews over at Sixmoons and I think his reviews of the RWA gear are generally pretty accurate. My tastes and his don't always correlate 100%, but I've always his reviews are wonderfully through introductions to the gear and are often quite thought provoking. I'd suggest checking out his review of the RWA Isabella if you want to hear more about what he thinks of the "RWA Sound."
 
If you have any other specific questions about the RWA/LCD2 pairing check out the RWA forum, or feel free to shoot me a PM. I'd be happy to help.

 

[Eisenbart]

Quote:

 

Great post! My impressions with the Isabellina aren't the best because 1. I only listened for about an hour and 2. It was also my first time hearing the LCD-2
 
However I was able to compare it with my Schiit Asgard and HD-600. How big of an improvement... that is tough to nail down. Comparing the 600/Schiit combo to the 600/RWA I would say it was significant, not as much as going from a soundcard only to an amp, but more significant than going from my first amp to the Schiit I have now. It gave the 600's more bass, more soundstage and had a more relaxed sound, by that I mean highs weren't as harsh and it was easier on the ears. I didn't find the highs recessed by any means though. And being that the Isabellina is battery powered it was also dead quiet. No background noise of any kind. All around it had a much more analog sound than the Asgard / HTR Music Streamer II combo I'm using.
 
I've always worried about diminishing returns. I was worried when I went from HD 555's to 600's and when I upgraded amps. Both times I was very happy with the money I spent, although I wasn't exactly spending big bucks. I was nervous about spending 1 grand on the LCD-2, but my brief listening session with them but my fears to bed. I found them to be a big upgrade over the 600s, even through my Asgard. And by big upgrade I'm thinking along the lines of it being close to going from soundcard to amp for the first time.
 
The Isabellina is literally 10 times the price of the Asgard and I do think it is worth the 2500 dollar price tag, if I ever get the chance to hear the Burson HA-160D my opinion may change, I know it is very highly thought of by Srajen at 6moons and many others, but until then the RWA is the best thing I've heard. Listening to it and the LCD-2 while playing a Beatles song almost brought a tear to my eye. My Asgard hasn't done that.
 
Edit: I'll also add, that when it comes to upgrades I prefer basing my decision entirely off how something sounds and how I react to it. THEN look at the cost and make a final decision. Obviously this isn't always possible, it's certainly been that way for me. I lucked out getting to hear the Isabellina. I didn't know the exact price at the time, but I knew they were expensive. It was still a blind-ish test I guess

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Quote:

That's because people who have experienced it know that tiny improvements are big and small changes are HUGE.  BIG changes rarely, if ever, happen beyond the earliest upgrades...ie iPod-only to 1st amp or copmputer stock sound card to 1st DAC.

Isn't this feeding into my original idea? That most amps and DACs should in theory be the same... or at least give the same output. Ideally speaking. Let's also not forget that taking your headphones off for an hour then coming back can yield "small changes."
 
(oops, I lost the quote that kwkarth quoted in his post about LCD-2 needing a bright amp)
Not trying to derail the thread again, but this is what I'm talking about. The fact that an amp can be described as bright means that there must exist amps which fundamentally color the signal in some way. How is that not flawed? And if it's not a flaw, why isn't it made clear by the company or seller that it emphasizes high frequencies? This is where audio really loses me.

I don't remember ever saying anything remotely like that so if you find it, please let me know.
 
 

 

[sferic]

These recent posts have made me realize something. The "flowery" language we use to describe audio experiences (which are essentially indescribable - it's a sensory input, not a verbal one) reminds me of the language wine connoisseurs use. (Again, they are trying to use words to describe taste - impossible.)
 
I've lived in wine central, Northern California for 25 years. And though I can tell the difference between Thunderbird and Kendall Jackson, have to say I'm the Dr. Dre Beats wearer of wine drinking. I'm tone deaf to it. All this "woody, fruity aftertaste with a slightly astringent bouquet" stuff I've always dismissed as the vocabulary of hallucinating drunks. 
 
But now I'm realizing I'm equally guilty, I must give my wino brethren an apology. Generally speaking, I've found the flowery descriptions on Head-Fi make total sense when I finally try the equipment. I HEAR ya bro's & sis's.
 
The real differences in preference seem to come down to (1) taste in music, what textures make your brain light up and (2) everyone's unique hearing response (yes as I've gotten older, I like louder, but NOT harsher, treble - you never lose that distinction). These are understandable and are why having the freedom of choice is so great.
 
What can be tiresome, are the tribal, "The sports team from my area is superior to the sports team from your area" critiques. Then there are the "I spent a lot of money on this crap so of course it's the best" tirades. Jaded audiophiles know you do drop a thousand bucks or so down the sewer every now and then in search of perfection. I know I have.
 
But heck, the fun is in the journey!
 
 

 

[Vkamicht]

Quote:

I don't remember ever saying anything remotely like that so if you find it, please let me know.
 

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/453116/audeze-lcd-2-orthos/10350#post_7354110
 
I was referring to you quoting someone else who said it needed a bright amp, not that you said that yourself. sorry for the confusion

 

[AtomikPi]

So I've been listening to my new pair of LCD-2s for a few days now and have, overall, a very positive opinion. Countless people have offered opinions so I'll keep them very brief for now.
 
I expected the LCD-2 to be fast and transparent, but I have to say they really impressed me in this regard especially. The only headphone I've heard that is equally good in this area is the Stax O2 Mk1. The transparency of the HD-800 is probably slightly lower, if I can trust my memory.
 
Although I find the term "grain" very nebulous, I definitely notice a lack of it in the LCD-2s. The soundstage is above average but not mindblowingly (or artificially) large and probably not as precisely imaged as on either the O2 Mk1 or my JH13. Vocals are really amazing. Beck's Sea Change in particular was by far the best I've ever heard it.
 
The bass is very potent but neutral. I don't think it's at all accentuated. I don't disagree with the claims of the LCD-2's great bass, but the greatness is purely in terms of quality - the quantity is neutral.
 
One thing I definitely want to mention is I don't find the LCD-2 to be remotely heavy. I mean, they certainly have weight, but I've been wearing them nearly all day while I've been browsing, reading, and so on, and the comfort is more than adequate. I don't find the clamping to be bad at all, nowhere near as bad as my HD-650's were when I first got them.
 
One more note: I've been experimenting with EQ. I do some production, so I have a high quality vst linear phase EQ, fabfilter Pro-Q, and I've been using it to add 3dB of treble based on my frequency response graph. I find any more than that fatiguing, but that amount adds a little bit of the "detail" and air that is slightly lacking by default. I feel much more comfortable adding treble this way than with a cable, amp, dac, or whatever. I am of course compensating with -3dB out to the overall signal within the EQ to avoid clipping. If you have a high quality vst eq on hand (I like linear phase, but that might be placebo effect) I would recommend trying it out with a vst wrapper. With foobar it's quite seamless and you have nothing to lose.
 
I listen at low/moderate volumes of 70-75 dB, so someone who prefers louder volumes might not consider them to be mildly dark and needing of EQ. I don't think that needing EQ is an insult to a phone, and to their credit, the LCD-2 respond very well to the EQ and have a smooth frequency response characteristic that makes EQing them quite simple.