[sokolov91]

Quote:

I liked the HD650 because of the mids - the treble was very slow and veiled - so I had have and enjoyed my K701 as well.  When people compare to HD650 - I think the reason is because in both cans the mids are quite prominent.
 
I think you could say the LCD2s sound like the D7000s - or you could say they sound like HD650 - and you wouldn't be wrong.  It has bass impact like D7000, without the boominess (think SE530 levels but infinitely superior in quality also) - with an "open" midrange instead of "recessed" and without the D7000s at times brightness.  With the HD650 - it makes the HD650 midrange sound like childish games, and the HD650 treble a joke.
 
I still recommend the HD650 in mid level cans over K701 for those that want a "natural" representation that may sound a little more true to life - but in all honesty, the LCD2s don't actually have the same signature as the HD650.  Like I said, the HD650 is playing childish games, where the LCD2 is playing for Kings (a reference from the fantastic movie Amadeus a movie about Mozart).  There is also an awesome sense of power combined with unbelievable reflexes I cannot describe (think Mike Tyson in his absolute prime)  whereas the D7000 is also powerful, but less powerful than LCD2 and without the finess (Heavyweight champion Lewis?).  Whereas I can't help but imagine thinking of HD800 as a Mayweather - undefeated, but in a class where power isn't the defining trait.  (off course reality is like Rocky Marciano)
 
With the HD650, you could kind of imagine how it sounds jamming with the crew, with the LCD2's you don't really have to imagine - that's pretty much how it sounds.
 
At this moment - I really want to liquidate everything that is not LCD2 related, I will likely end up picking up a pair of HD800s for low level listening and have the same contrasting setups like before HD650/K701 and now LCD2/HD800 - that's how I like it, I will enjoy both kinds of presentations like I did before.

I LOLed.
 
How very true.
 

 

[sokolov91]

Why are people giving grokit such a hard time over him saying that a balanced amp is better than an SE one?
 
Obviously, an SE amp at 700$ is going to sound better than a balanced one at 700$... but a good balanced amp, vs a good SE amp, should be no contest if the source is truly balanced, no?

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

I seem to be outnumbered

 
Although I see a lot of supposition, from what I am reading I am the only one that brought objective facts to the discussion. Also I have actually had the pleasure to hear, placebo and all, the difference balanced makes on my own headphones, with my own amplifier(s) and of course to my own ears. But believe what you will, it just makes me feel more special.
 
Edit; Currawong, quote: "lowest distortion, highest linearity, increased power, improved performance", sounds like good reasons to go balanced for sure, thanks for the support. But what did I say specifically that was false or not representative of how amps work? The paper I linked to seems pretty non-biased, and has plenty of measurements and such to support its conclusions.

Sorry, when I posted I hadn't seen your post or link.
 
Quote:

 
So you notice little to no differences between phoenix balanced vs. se?
 

On the contrary, there is a significant difference. A more useful measure would be the same essential design with an equal amount of power single-ended vs. a balanced version.  I did have a powerful single-ended tube amp here for a while which was almost as capable as the Phoenix balanced in many ways though, so I appreciate the idea that an amp doesn't have to be balanced to be good enough or powerful enough.
 
Anyway, we should move the amp discussion to another thread, if you want to start one (or if there's a good existing one) as we are going off-topic. 

 
I will say though I do appreciate, given the speed and detail of the LCD-2s, that I have a high-end amp for them.

 

[Solude]

Balanced in itself is not better.  Don't think anyone here would trade their se b22 for a balanced cmoy   Is the GS-X better than the GS-1?  Yes, even in se.  Is the balanced Roc better than a b22,  no.  Is the balanced Roc better than the se Roc yes.  Pretty much comes down to this... dollar for dollar se offers more value.  But I'm Stax mafia so all my amps are balanced =p

 

[Frank I]

Quote:

Why are people giving grokit such a hard time over him saying that a balanced amp is better than an SE one?
 
Obviously, an SE amp at 700$ is going to sound better than a balanced one at 700$... but a good balanced amp, vs a good SE amp, should be no contest if the source is truly balanced, no?

The argument about balanced and single ended has been going on in audio for the last 15 years or more. I believe its more about synergy. To me all the parts of the system have to match for it to be good. Including cables which to me have always made a big difference. The fun is matching. The argument will never end as long as you are happy with the sound of your system it isn't a valid argument IMO. I am sure balanced can sound nice.

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

Alex the argument about balanced and single ended has been going on in audio for the last 15 years or more. I believe its more about synergy. To me all the parts of the system have to match for it to be good. Including cables which to me have always made a big difference. The fun is matching. The argument will never end as long as you are happy with the sound of your system it isn't a valid argument IMO. I am sure balanced can sound nice.

 
Well I don't think it is so much an argument as it is a ratio like others are saying.
 
The whole reason people buy better amps, is for lower distortion, and more power, to ensure a pristine listening experience. 
 
Bang for buck wise, a good balanced amp can be low, but I doubt it would be outdone by an SE amp... just doesn't make any sense. It does make sense, that for the money, you could probably get a better experience with an SE amp.
 
Plus, aren't most speaker amps balanced anyways? only seems to be a huge "debate" in headphones. 
 
Its kind of like processors. It is cheaper to get a single core processor, and overclock it... but you can only go so far before you need another core. Balanced would be a "dual core" amp I guess. No doubt it is technically better all things equal.
 
Synergy is important though, you are quite correct.
 

 

[Frank I]

 
Quote:

 
Well I don't think it is so much an argument as it is a ratio like others are saying.
 
The whole reason people buy better amps, is for lower distortion, and more power, to ensure a pristine listening experience. 
 
Bang for buck wise, a good balanced amp can be low, but I doubt it would be outdone by an SE amp... just doesn't make any sense. It does make sense, that for the money, you could probably get a better experience with an SE amp.
 
Plus, aren't most speaker amps balanced anyways? only seems to be a huge "debate" in headphones. 
 
Its kind of like processors. It is cheaper to get a single core processor, and overclock it... but you can only go so far before you need another core. Balanced would be a "dual core" amp I guess. No doubt it is technically better all things equal.
 
Synergy is important though, you are quite correct.
 

All speaker amps I have used in the past have not been balanced. I swapped in and out quite a few amps in my day some very expensive sone inexpensive. I have heard balanced amps and they do sound good but they were synergistic to the systems I heard it in and I have heard very expensive balanced SS amps that sounded very bad. Its all in what makes you happy.
 

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

MacedonianHero: When did you add yourself to the preorder list? 

I cannot confirm, nor deny that I put my name on the preorder list in early August.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Balanced in itself is not better.  Don't think anyone here would trade their se b22 for a balanced cmoy   Is the GS-X better than the GS-1?  Yes, even in se.  Is the balanced Roc better than a b22,  no.  Is the balanced Roc better than the se Roc yes.  Pretty much comes down to this... dollar for dollar se offers more value.

Bingo!

 

[tisb0b]

Mine was mid-July so it's turning into an interesting wait ;D

 
Quote:

I cannot confirm, nor deny that I put my name on the preorder list in early August.

 

[Seamaster]

Thank you guys for all the help and input. Let me make the question clear:
 
How much improvement to LCD-2 if driven balanced? Or are they sensitive to how are they driven (S/B)?
 
 
So far all the posts above have been talking about the AMP not headphones themselves. I understand the amp design is the most important factor. A well thought SE amp could out perform a balanced design. Balanced design is automatic better, but better method instead. Myself prefer balanced if two amps based on the same design, you know what I mean. As everyone knew by now, HD650 demand to be balanced to best SQ by large margin. And newer HD800 are not so much (I may be wrong). So let's start here. Thanks

 

[Kurt]

 
Quote:

Obviously, an SE amp at 700$ is going to sound better than a balanced one at 700$... but a good balanced amp, vs a good SE amp, should be no contest if the source is truly balanced, no?

The point is that not every phone gains from balanced drive. Sennheiser sound much better, Grados rather worsen, IMO.

 

[Seamaster]

Or you guys can wait untill Oct Seattle meet, I will anwser this myself.

 

[carm]

Maybe someone could do a comparison between LCD-2 and OOP headphones like Sony Qualia and of course R10 ? 

 

[grokit]

It also helps to define just what one means by the term "balanced amplifier".
 
"[size=x-small]The really interesting thing though is that removing the common ground is only the beginning of the possible improvements from balanced operation. There are different ways to implement a balanced headphone amplifier, the easiest being a single-ended internal design with transformer- coupled outputs. In that case the sonic improvements come from the natural noise rejection of XLR connections (not a major factor in single-ended headphones) as well as the common ground removal. But it is possible to go further in the design and operation of balanced headphone amplifiers by using four completely separate amps for all four legs of the signal (right normal, right inverted, left normal, left inverted) as described in the graph below."[/size]
 

 
"[size=x-small]The immediate benefit of such a design is that each amplifier only drives half of the coil allowing for a much better control of that coil. It also doubles the effective slew rate (the voltage an amp can swing per second) as both amplifiers are operating in opposite phase to increase the dynamic realism of the music reproduced. Such a design can get fairly difficult to implement with all discrete transistors as they require careful manual matching to ensure that both halves of the signal are amplified identically but integrated chips do remedy this in a fairly elegant and cost effective fashion, allowing entry-level balanced amps to remain quite accessible. If the theory of balanced headphones seems all rosy, there are a few hurdles you need to be aware of. They all relate to the implementation of a balanced headphone system from start to finish."[/size]
 
 
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/balancedheadphones/one.html
 
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/balancedheadphones/two.html