[jax]

OK, OK, I like Phillip Glass too....so I guess not the right metaphor there.........maybe I should have used Gavin Bryars', "Jesus Blood Never Failed Me Yet"....or perhaps William Basinski's, "The Disintigration Loops", instead.  I actually kind of like those too if I'm in the right mood, but certainly not on headphones, and they may be a better metaphor for those circular discussions that seem to be coming up a bit more frequently on this thread, and I bet not many of you will be cuing up either one on your LCD-2's tonight. 

 

[bumblingbooby]

I visited Head-Fi a couple of nights ago and the LCD-2 and treble thread caught my attention. The OP who was considering purchasing the LCD-2 but was concerned that its treble presentation might be too "laid-back". I had read the thread in it's entirety prior to posting. It was a feisty thread, containing some spirited exchanges between some Head-Fi'ers - nothing wrong with that as long as they're respectful.
 
So I posted my opinion based on my own listening experience with this headphone. My opinion was then belittled by a Head-Fi'er whose post was seconded by someone else. Both of these Head-Fi'ers are LCD-2 owners, who obviously don't brook comments that they perceive as being critical of its sound, no matter how reasonably they are expressed. That thread has now been locked, which is disappointing. 
 
I've not read this thread because of its inordinate length but the fact that it remains open, gives me reason to think that we can share and discuss our experiences with this headphone including its merits and shortcomings. For the record, I described the treble presentation as "shelved down" (rather than rolled-off or recessed) based on my own listening experience but I was impressed with this headphone overall. I can appreciate why it has its enthusiastic supporters and its detractors - just like any other headphone really.  

 

[rhythmdevils]

Opinions on the LCD-2 are never belittled as far as I can tell.  They might be disagreed with, but generally in a polite way.  What made that thread dramatic was the use of graphs to try to "prove" opinion as fact, which got absurd when they were continually misunderstood and misinformed readings of the graphs. 

 

[strannik]

Yes that thread did get a bit out of hand. As for treble, I'll agree with you. My ears tell me that LCD2s have less treble than other phones I have lying around here collecting dust. Be it for the sake of neutrality or a technical limitation I know not. Even with EQ it's not quite the same. But honestly, I don't mind at all, pronounced treble gives me a headache anyway.
 
Quote:

I visited Head-Fi a couple of nights ago and the LCD-2 and treble thread caught my attention. The OP who was considering purchasing the LCD-2 but was concerned that its treble presentation might be too "laid-back". I had read the thread in it's entirety prior to posting. It was a feisty thread, containing some spirited exchanges between some Head-Fi'ers - nothing wrong with that as long as they're respectful.
 
So I posted my opinion based on my own listening experience with this headphone. My opinion was then belittled by a Head-Fi'er whose post was seconded by someone else. Both of these Head-Fi'ers are LCD-2 owners, who obviously don't brook comments that they perceive as being critical of its sound, no matter how reasonably they are expressed. That thread has now been locked, which is disappointing. 
 
I've not read this thread because of its inordinate length but the fact that it remains open, gives me reason to think that we can share and discuss our experiences with this headphone including its merits and shortcomings. For the record, I described the treble presentation as "shelved down" (rather than rolled-off or recessed) based on my own listening experience but I was impressed with this headphone overall. I can appreciate why it has its enthusiastic supporters and its detractors - just like any other headphone really.  

 

 

[WarriorAnt]

Quote:

OK, OK, I like Phillip Glass too....so I guess not the right metaphor there.........maybe I should have used Gavin Bryars', "Jesus Blood Never Failed Me Yet"....or perhaps William Basinski's, "The Disintigration Loops", instead.  I actually kind of like those too if I'm in the right mood, but certainly not on headphones, and they may be a better metaphor for those circular discussions that seem to be coming up a bit more frequently on this thread, and I bet not many of you will be cuing up either one on your LCD-2's tonight. 

jax I love new music for the LCD's so I ordered up Gavin Bryars -The Sinking of The Titanic, Gavin Bryars - Vita Nova, Sentieri Selvaggi Plays Gavin Bryars and Philip Glass, and William Basinski's, "The Disintigration Loops".  I love when folks post music I haven't heard before, it's one of the best ways to find new music.

 

[leesure]

Quote:

Well I have the latest cable and it sounds just great to me absolutely no microphonics and as for cable drag I really cant say this had been a problem either. 
 
I have come to the conclusion that some of these after market cable suppliers are really taking the p*ss in view of the prices being charged for what are in some cases very marginal if any improvements.  The majority seem to be North of $500 and many now are $1000 +!  Strikes me its a combination of Foo and Snake Oil

l

 


 

Norse Audio makes a nice upgrade LCD-2 cable for $139. 
 

 

[mrspeakers]

I have a theory on the brightness question for the LCD-2.  It can't to my knowledge be proven easily, but it's based on my experience with speaker design and "brightness" perception.
 
The idea is simple: the orthos have a driver operating in an inherently linear magnetic field.  As such, the driver is free from odd-order distortions that typically create extra energy in the treble band that some perceive as brightness, but which to me is audible as grain in the high registers.  Other sources of this distortion can include wave modalities in the driver surface, but again, i think the ortho may be less prone to this.
 
I found in designs where I had drivers with lower odd order distortion that people tended to describe them as "more detailed, but kind of softer" in the top end.
 
I believe the same thing is in play on the LCD-2, and that you might take a phone with a similar frequency response curve but higher order distortion, and it will sound brighter.
 
Anyhow, I no longer have the gear I need to run tests like this, but I think it's likely to explain why many people perceive less "brightness," yet those of us who appreciate the phone hear tremendous extension and perceive the phone as being quite extended.  Just curious who else perceives this effect...

 

[WarriorAnt]

Quote:

I have a theory on the brightness question for the LCD-2.  It can't to my knowledge be proven easily, but it's based on my experience with speaker design and "brightness" perception.
 
The idea is simple: the orthos have a driver operating in an inherently linear magnetic field.  As such, the driver is free from odd-order distortions that typically create extra energy in the treble band that some perceive as brightness, but which to me is audible as grain in the high registers.  Other sources of this distortion can include wave modalities in the driver surface, but again, i think the ortho may be less prone to this.
 
I found in designs where I had drivers with lower odd order distortion that people tended to describe them as "more detailed, but kind of softer" in the top end.
 
I believe the same thing is in play on the LCD-2, and that you might take a phone with a similar frequency response curve but higher order distortion, and it will sound brighter.
 
Anyhow, I no longer have the gear I need to run tests like this, but I think it's likely to explain why many people perceive less "brightness," yet those of us who appreciate the phone hear tremendous extension and perceive the phone as being quite extended.  Just curious who else perceives this effect...

Very interesting.
 

 

[bumblingbooby]

Quote:

Opinions on the LCD-2 are never belittled as far as I can tell.  They might be disagreed with, but generally in a polite way.  What made that thread dramatic was the use of graphs to try to "prove" opinion as fact, which got absurd when they were continually misunderstood and misinformed readings of the graphs. 

 
Well, like almost everything discussed in these forum threads, it all seems to come down to a matter of opinion. However, I'd be happy to direct you to the post that I am referring to as it might lead you to change yours. 

  
 
 

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

I have a theory on the brightness question for the LCD-2.  It can't to my knowledge be proven easily, but it's based on my experience with speaker design and "brightness" perception.
 
The idea is simple: the orthos have a driver operating in an inherently linear magnetic field.  As such, the driver is free from odd-order distortions that typically create extra energy in the treble band that some perceive as brightness, but which to me is audible as grain in the high registers.  Other sources of this distortion can include wave modalities in the driver surface, but again, i think the ortho may be less prone to this.
 
I found in designs where I had drivers with lower odd order distortion that people tended to describe them as "more detailed, but kind of softer" in the top end.
 
I believe the same thing is in play on the LCD-2, and that you might take a phone with a similar frequency response curve but higher order distortion, and it will sound brighter.
 
Anyhow, I no longer have the gear I need to run tests like this, but I think it's likely to explain why many people perceive less "brightness," yet those of us who appreciate the phone hear tremendous extension and perceive the phone as being quite extended.  Just curious who else perceives this effect...

Creating and adding odd order harmonic distortion is a technique that has been used for years by Aphex with their Aural exciter products.  The Aural Exciter supposedly addedor recovered "perceived" detail to audio passed through it.  The products never did anything for me and all I was ever able to hear from them were increased levels of distortion when they were used.  I guess my ears are too used to hearing the real thing to be fooled by that which is counterfeit.  
 
I am told that is how bank tellers are trained to spot counterfeit money...  They get REAL familiar with the real thing, and when the phony stuff shows up, it sticks out like a sore thumb.
 
If you want to learn how to recognize REAL, natural, neutral audio reproduction, spend as much time as you can with the real thing.  It will do wonders for your ability to appreciate true neutrality and sonic accuracy.
 
 

 

[pp312]

 
Quote:

I visited Head-Fi a couple of nights ago and the LCD-2 and treble thread caught my attention. The OP who was considering purchasing the LCD-2 but was concerned that its treble presentation might be too "laid-back". I had read the thread in it's entirety prior to posting. It was a feisty thread, containing some spirited exchanges between some Head-Fi'ers - nothing wrong with that as long as they're respectful.
 
So I posted my opinion based on my own listening experience with this headphone. My opinion was then belittled by a Head-Fi'er whose post was seconded by someone else. Both of these Head-Fi'ers are LCD-2 owners, who obviously don't brook comments that they perceive as being critical of its sound, no matter how reasonably they are expressed.

 
The Head-Fi-er referred to was myself and I'm glad you've brought up that thread as it gives me a chance to apologise for what was a too sharp and undoubtedly opinionated reply (though meant somewhat less seriously than it was apparently taken). The perception that the LCD-2 has a recessed treble is clearly a valid (and widely-held) one, but my point, not explained, was that it arises out of people listening to over-bright headphones, of which unfortunately there are more than enough in the world. After 50 years in and around hi-fi, as well as attending live concerts, I believe I have a pretty good idea of what a naturally balanced headphone or speaker sounds like, and to my ears nothing has yet come closer than the LCD-2. With all the familiar material I've played on it the Audeze has been like a chameleon, bright when the recording is bright, dull when it's dull. Initially I thought it was too bright, but as I went through my collection I began to realize that it was simply reflecting the characteristics of the recordings, no more or less, and more faithfully than I'd ever heard before. It undoubtedly has aural faults, nothing is perfect, but I don't believe dullness is one of them, and those who hear it as dull perhaps haven't spent enough time at live concerts and venues. IMO, of course.  
 
Again, apologies for seeming to denigrate your quite valid opinion. I guess you just came along at a point when I was getting a bit tired of that particular criticism, and copped an undeserved backhander. I probably should give you my LCD-2s to make up for it, but as that isn't going to happen alI I can offer is a well-intentioned smiley.  

 

[jax]

 
Quote:

jax I love new music for the LCD's so I ordered up Gavin Bryars -The Sinking of The Titanic, Gavin Bryars - Vita Nova, Sentieri Selvaggi Plays Gavin Bryars and Philip Glass, and William Basinski's, "The Disintigration Loops".  I love when folks post music I haven't heard before, it's one of the best ways to find new music.

That's some heavy $h!t you just ordered - definitely not for everyone.  I was serious - though I do enjoy it at times, I would not choose headphones to listen to that particular material on.  Both are rather hypnotic, and best enjoyed as background music, at least for me, the Basinski piece is pretty dark.  That is definitely not music many folks would sit down and listen intently to.   I'll be curious to hear what you think.  My post wasn't really intended as a recommendation to listen via headphones - quite the opposite.    
 

 

[castlevania32]

The LCD2 fans are slowly becoming like a sect

(yes that's a criticism). And that's from someone who is on the LCD2 side...

 

[WarriorAnt]

Quote:

 

That's some heavy $h!t you just ordered - definitely not for everyone.  I was serious - though I do enjoy it at times, I would not choose headphones to listen to that particular material on.  Both are rather hypnotic, and best enjoyed as background music, at least for me, the Basinski piece is pretty dark.  That is definitely not music many folks would sit down and listen intently to.   I'll be curious to hear what you think.  My post wasn't really intended as a recommendation to listen via headphones - quite the opposite.    
 

LCD's are pretty much all I have these days so they're going to have to come through for me.  I guess we'll see what they are made of...
 
 

 

[jax]

Quote:

LCD's are pretty much all I have these days so they're going to have to come through for me.  I guess we'll see what they are made of...
 
 

It's not the aspects of the LCD-2's presentation, but the nature of that specific music.  It is ethereal and mesmerizing, entirely minimalist, and quite hypnotic if  you are open to it.  I imagine it may be a bit overwhelming on headphones.   Maybe not....I'm actually listening to "The Disintigration Loops" as I type this and it's quite haunting and beautiful.  For me it is a bit like meditation - great music to just zone out to, or fall asleep by, or just watch your thoughts pass.  But again, definitely not for everyone. It is the kind of thing you really need to let wash over you, and if you are open to it, it really grows on you and the experience can be quite moving.  I hope you enjoy it. 
 
 
PS  Did  you give up your speaker system?  That's what I meant would be my preference for listening to this kind of music.  It is better enjoyed as background, at least for me, but I'm surprised that I'm quite enjoying on headphones right now.