[goofyvic]

As far as classical music goes I think we need to separate chamber-type music from more symphonic stuff, because these two types of music are presented differently for the most part. For the orchestral stuff the K701 and HD800 do a great job of instrument separation and soundstaging, but for more intimate chamber music the LCD-2 is spectacular at things like timbre and imaging. I would throw the HE-6 into the mix as a more versatile headphone that serves both of these purposes the best, but does not do as well within their individual specialization as the HD800/LCD-2 does.

Same sentiments here. I feel that LCD2 is alright with Symphonies but not great. But they truely shines with smaller classical pieces like quartets, bringing great realism and texture to the music.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jax /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Comparing the experience of  listening to music via headphones to the same music via speakers is pointless, IMO.  They are entirely different ways of experiencing music and one will never be the other.  There are crossover aspects you can compare and contrast, but ultimately headphones will never be speakers and vice versa.  There are separate threads on this subject, like this one. 
 
On soundstaging: the HD800 produces what I'd call an out-of-head experience of soundstage.  The LCD-2's keep it pretty much in between your ears and certainly occur to me as more confined than the HD800 in this respect.  If you are a fan of that out-of-head kind of feeling (Stax does this well also), you will likely be disappointed as the LCD-2 does not deliver music that way.  Neither Stax nor HD800 deliver the same tonal richness I hear from the LCD-2's though and can otherwise occur as a bit thin in comparison (whereas the LCD-2 can occur as more thick or heavy, and less airy for sure).  I'm not sure what the previous poster meant by "lacks the proper soundstage" - even the best of these do not throw a psycho-acoustic soundstage like speakers do - again a fruitless (pun intended) apples vs. oranges comparison. The tiny illusion even the best soundstaging cans can accomplish doesn't remotely hold a candle to the illusion good speaker systems pull off, at least in my own experiences with both.  Soundstaging is often overrated, IMO, though I have to say I enjoy the illusion, especially with speakers.  Nonetheless, sitting in an audience, even at the best of venues, listening to live music, I have never once been aware of the kinds of exaggerated spacial cues that sound engineers are able to produce on a recording.  In fact, I absolutely never pay any attention to it.  I do pay attention to it listening at home because it is part of an illusion.  It is not ultimately what moves me about the music I'm listening to, it just goes to adding an element of suspension of disbelief to the experience. 
 
Pursuit of such goals as these, expecting headphones to perform as speakers, might be best accessorized by one of these attached to your headphone band:

Well reasoned, Jax.
 
 

 

[Pale Rider]

I am sitting here listening to the new HD Tracks Rolling Stones 176/24 release of Aftermath (US) on my LCD-2s. Very sweet indeed.

 

[Pale Rider]

Quote:

Quote:

As far as classical music goes I think we need to separate chamber-type music from more symphonic stuff, because these two types of music are presented differently for the most part. For the orchestral stuff the K701 and HD800 do a great job of instrument separation and soundstaging, but for more intimate chamber music the LCD-2 is spectacular at things like timbre and imaging. I would throw the HE-6 into the mix as a more versatile headphone that serves both of these purposes the best, but does not do as well within their individual specialization as the HD800/LCD-2 does.

Same sentiments here. I feel that LCD2 is alright with Symphonies but not great. But they truely shines with smaller classical pieces like quartets, bringing great realism and texture to the music.
 

+1. I mentioned this earlier and in my review. If soundstage doesn't matter to you much, the distinction may be less important, but if soundstage is part of the illusion that gets to you, that I think jax was referring to, then it could matter a great deal. BTW, I noticed the same thing on some tracks of Neil Young and the Allman Brothers in studio as opposed to some of the Weld and Fillmore cuts.
 
 

 

[Frankie K]

I'm looking into a pr of the LCD2's in a few mo's, I hear there really good with rock music and classical well some classical. Some say the sound stage is good, other's no, These will be a major step up from My 225i's and the soundstage is okay, so for Myself will it make that much of a difference when the time come's or will it be a matter of My own opinion. Oh confusion, My head be a spinning

.

 

[kwkarth]

What "IS" soundstage?  How is it captured?  What is captured?  What is reproduced? How is "IT" reproduced?

 

[gopack87]

Quote:

What "IS" soundstage?  How is it captured?  What is captured?  What is reproduced? How is "IT" reproduced?

+1 I hear the word thrown around constantly, yet still don't understand what it means even after people try to explain it

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

+1 I hear the word thrown around constantly, yet still don't understand what it means even after people try to explain it

I've explained it at least a few times, but I don't see evidence that many were listening.
 
 

 

[gopack87]

Quote:

I've explained it at least a few times, but I don't see evidence that many were listening.
 
 

Was that along the lines that sound stage is more in the actual music recording than in a headphone or speaker?

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Was that along the lines that sound stage is more in the actual music recording than in a headphone or speaker?

Yup, real, true soundstage is actually recorded on the original recording IF the venue is mic'd properly, otherwise, it's purely artificial, and who's to say which artifice is better than another?

 

[kwkarth]

I think the reason that Frankie K's head is spinning is because BS makes people dizzy.  Don't feel bad Frankie, it's not your fault!

 

[Pale Rider]

I tend to agree with kwkarth. Soundstage in audio is, at least to me, in part a reflection of the artifice of recorded and reproduced audio. In much the same way that a photograph is an artifice. A photographer can play with artificial and natural light, depth of field, bokah, angle, perspective, etc., without touching one slider in Photoshop and completely alter the presentation, so as to literally change the subsequent viewer's perception of the "reality of a scene." Microphone placement and post-recording editing have similar aural effects. For an exaggerated demo, listen to something binaurally recorded. I love binaural recordings when done well. Some headphones seem to portray soundstage differently from others. I know that my Senns, my IEMs, and my LCD-2s portray soundstage differently on the exact same recordings, and I assume it is for a variety of reasons, ranging from drivers [type, surface area, mass, etc.] to enclosures [open, sealed, foam, leather, etc.]. There are also significant psychoacoustic influences at work as well. How well one hears, as well as what sounds one "hears for," have an impact on how we hear live and recorded music. I was a percussionist growing up, and my brother a cellist. When I attend classical concerts, I hear those instruments more clearly and distinctly. I am aware of where they are on stage, if the hall acoustics and other instruments permit it.
 
There are many ways to describe listening to the LCD-2s. I love mine, that's for sure. But if I really want to "hear the cathedral" in a massed choral work, I am still more likely to reach for my Senns.

 

[TheWuss]

Quote:

Yup, real, true soundstage is actually recorded on the original recording IF the venue is mic'd properly, otherwise, it's purely artificial, and who's to say which artifice is better than another?

+ a million.
any headphone worth its salt, even portapros, can convey the spacial cues inherent in a recording.
 
some headphones, however, pull the trick of throwing sound wide and far. 
but i'm not sure it's fair to call that a "soundstage", or to judge other headphones by whether they pull off this same trick.
 
that's just my $.02
 

 

[K3cT]

 
 
 
Actually, I find the imaging to be one of the cons in LCD-2.  It has very good detail, frequency balance(or response), good transients but lacks the proper soundstage like most of the other headphones.  Imaging wise, it is no different than most headphones.  HD800, not that I heard it myself, seems to solve this issue and has a good, proper soundstage..?

The LCD2 doesn't choke when there are 5 or 6 instruments playing at the same time as I can still tell where each and every individual sound is coming from. I thought this ease of identifying them is where it does better than most headphones.

No doubt the HD800 has a better soundstage than the LCD2 for me but as others have addressed here, it can appear to be unnaturally wide and this wideness is like a built-in EQ that appears all the time.

 

[h4nc0]

Ok.  I think I did the wrong here.  I got the LCD-2 for my portable production rig and wanted to say that the headphone still sounded like all the other headphones in aspect to imaging/soundstage.  And probably confused others in the process due to my bad English as it's not my native language.  Apology!
 
Quote:

Quote:

 
Actually, I find the imaging to be one of the cons in LCD-2.  It has very good detail, frequency balance(or response), good transients but lacks the proper soundstage like most of the other headphones.  Imaging wise, it is no different than most headphones.  HD800, not that I heard it myself, seems to solve this issue and has a good, proper soundstage..?

The LCD2 doesn't choke when there are 5 or 6 instruments playing at the same time as I can still tell where each and every individual sound is coming from. I thought this ease of identifying them is where it does better than most headphones.

No doubt the HD800 has a better soundstage than the LCD2 for me but as others have addressed here, it can appear to be unnaturally wide and this wideness is like a built-in EQ that appears all the time.