[Wilashort]

I have my excellent LCD-2 for sale Here if anyone is interested

 

[DivergeUnify]

I'm finding the fazor editions a little bass light. This is from my droid maxx to the magni on hi gain. This obviously isnt ideal and i am getting my dac this week. However i figured this would give me a good look at sound signature.

Can someone comment on this. A couple songs for reference: Fascination St by the cure and dirty boots by sonic youth. I believe the bass lines are supposed to drive these songs, but dont the way i hear them through this set up. Is this a matter of my phones dac, or just the way the lcd2 voices things.

Im just surprised because lcd3f out of my phone to a woo audio 7 seemed to have much more authoritative bass. However the principal should be the same, and graph wise, lcd2f bass goes deeper than lcd3f

Also since my phone is essentially acting as a pre-amp, is its limited power having an effect, perhaps more so than the dac? Ive never run such a bottleneck setup so theres a lot of what-ifs for me right now. Ive never considered myself a basshead.

 

[hodgjy]

I'm finding the fazor editions a little bass light. This is from my droid maxx to the magni on hi gain. This obviously isnt ideal and i am getting my dac this week. However i figured this would give me a good look at sound signature.

Can someone comment on this. A couple songs for reference: Fascination St by the cure and dirty boots by sonic youth. I believe the bass lines are supposed to drive these songs, but dont the way i hear them through this set up. Is this a matter of my phones dac, or just the way the lcd2 voices things.

Im just surprised because lcd3f out of my phone to a woo audio 7 seemed to have much more authoritative bass. However the principal should be the same, and graph wise, lcd2f bass goes deeper than lcd3f

Also since my phone is essentially acting as a pre-amp, is its limited power having an effect, perhaps more so than the dac? Ive never run such a bottleneck setup so theres a lot of what-ifs for me right now. Ive never considered myself a basshead.

I'll take a stab at this. I've only had my 2.2f for a little over a week, so I'm still getting to know them. I don't find them bass light. I find them bass honest. They have no bloat, excess resonance, or midbass creep into the midtones. This combination makes them seem light when coming from other cans that emphasize bass.

 

[scizzro]

I'll take a stab at this. I've only had my 2.2f for a little over a week, so I'm still getting to know them. I don't find them bass light. I find them bass honest. They have no bloat, excess resonance, or midbass creep into the midtones. This combination makes them seem light when coming from other cans that emphasize bass.

Interesting. What would you say the 2.2f's strengths are?

 

[hodgjy]

Interesting. What would you say the 2.2f's strengths are?

They are forgiving a poor recordings. Bass has excellent texture. Treble is sweet. They sound much larger than my Sennheiser HD650s. They have a taller soundstage and better imaging.

 

[HPiper]

They are forgiving a poor recordings. Bass has excellent texture. Treble is sweet. They sound much larger than my Sennheiser HD650s. They have a taller soundstage and better imaging.

That is good as those are my two main complaints about the HD650, not a particularly big sound stage and not so precise imaging.

 

[diamondears]

That is good as those are my two main complaints about the HD650, not a particularly big sound stage and not so precise imaging.

I had the LCD-2Fazor for a month and I don't find the bass honest at all. And it's bloated, there's bloom in it. And it's lacking/light. I'm comparing to the LCD-2 pre-Fazor and speakers though. I'm assuming the LCD-X don't have this problem (haven't heard it).

 

[klfl]

I had the LCD-2Fazor for a month and I don't find the bass honest at all. And it's bloated, there's bloom in it. And it's lacking/light. I'm comparing to the LCD-2 pre-Fazor and speakers though. I'm assuming the LCD-X don't have this problem (haven't heard it).

Interesting, however that's not my experience at all. May I ask what is your source/amp?
 
I've had 2 pairs of LCD-2 pre Fazor since 2012 (leather/vegan). They have more bloated bass and recessed mids compared to Fazor model. Neither can be considered reference sounding, but Fazor LCD-2 is one step closer neutral. (Comparing to a variety of headphones in similar price range)
 
Neither version is my favorite headphone, but IMO the Fazor LCD-2 has less issues than the pre-Fazor one and is a better model.
 
Personal preference:
Fazor > pre-Fazor vegan > pre-Fazor leather

 

[diamondears]

Interesting, however that's not my experience at all. May I ask what is your source/amp?

I've had 2 pairs of LCD-2 pre Fazor since 2012 (leather/vegan). They have more bloated bass and recessed mids compared to Fazor model. Neither can be considered reference sounding, but Fazor LCD-2 is one step closer neutral. (Comparing to a variety of headphones in similar price range)

Neither version is my favorite headphone, but IMO the Fazor LCD-2 has less issues than the pre-Fazor one and is a better model.

Personal preference:
Fazor > pre-Fazor vegan > pre-Fazor leather

See my sig.

Did you have/listen to them at same time? I did. And I used exactly the same recordings, player, DAC and amp. I even used the same Audeze HP cable as I suspect there's a slight variance in their sound even if they physically look the same. Their FR graphs support what I heard too.

Btw, what player, DAC and amp did you compare them with?

 

[klfl]

See my sig.

Did you have/listen to them at same time? I did. And I used exactky the same recordings, player, DAC and amp. I even used the same Audeze HP cable as I suspect there's a slight variance in their sound even if they physically look the same. Their FR graphs support what I heard too.

Yes I have the chance to compare both models side by side extensively and decided to get rid of the pre-Fazor. However some careful volume matching must be done since they have different sensitivity.
 
I also swapped the pads/cables to test out the difference. The FR charts from audeze are pretty accurate imo and supports what I hear pretty well.
 
The O2 is one of my amp of choice at office however I do not find them a good paring with the LCD-2. The HD800 sounds well with the O2 but LCD-2 sounds too flat. I've had better results with the LCD-2 on several Schiit amps.

 

[klfl]

See my sig.

Did you have/listen to them at same time? I did. And I used exactly the same recordings, player, DAC and amp. I even used the same Audeze HP cable as I suspect there's a slight variance in their sound even if they physically look the same. Their FR graphs support what I heard too.

Btw, what player, DAC and amp did you compare them with?

Mjolnir/gungnir, vali/modi, o2/odac combo, microstreamer, pan am.
 
I do find the LCD-2 pairs well with akm based dac.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

It's a hard choice for me, because I just found some tubes that I think sound really good in the Lyr. They have a tubey, lush sound to them, and it makes female vocals sound stellar. I didn't care for the Lyr with stock tubes. This is on my HD600, btw. I'm just worried the Oppo + LCD2 will be too analytical? If that's the right word. I'm worried a solid state amp won't give me the lush female vocals that I'm really enjoying atm

Can I ask which tubes we are talking about?

 

[diamondears]

Yes I have the chance to compare both models side by side extensively and decided to get rid of the pre-Fazor. However some careful volume matching must be done since they have different sensitivity.

I also swapped the pads/cables to test out the difference. The FR charts from audeze are pretty accurate imo and supports what I hear pretty well.

The O2 is one of my amp of choice at office however I do not find them a good paring with the LCD-2. The HD800 sounds well with the O2 but LCD-2 sounds too flat. I've had better results with the LCD-2 on several Schiit amps.

Mjolnir/gungnir, vali/modi, o2/odac combo, microstreamer, pan am.

I do find the LCD-2 pairs well with akm based dac.

My DACs are the Audiolab 8200CD and Cambridge Audio DacMagic +, which have the Sabre 9018 DAC chip system and dual Wolfson WM8740, respectively. Both are true balanced implementation. My amp, the O2, is a totally transparent amp, without any coloration at all. So I don't think its the amp nor the DAC.

What do you mean you also hear what's in the FR graph of your LCD-2s? The FR graph of my LCD-2Fazor drops down substantially at around 40hz. That's where the full-bodied-ness of the bass comes from. Bass is usually not just one note/frequency, it's a reverberation of not just one frequency. A perfect comparison is a 2-way speaker vs a 3-way speaker. The 3-way speaker would sound different, and much better due to the ability to put out sub-bass frequencies.

I understand Audeze retained the sub-bass and overall bass articulation and body of the pre-fazor LCD-2 into the LCD-X.

Have you heard the X? How do you find it vs the LCD-2Fazor and pre-fazor?

 

[klfl]

 My amp, the O2, is a totally transparent amp, without any coloration at all. So I don't think its the amp nor the DAC.

 
O2 is indeed a transparent and neutral amp. However I do not find it to have the best dynamics. It is not the best paring for the LCD-2 from my experience. 
 

What do you mean you also hear what's in the FR graph of your LCD-2s? The FR graph of my LCD-2Fazor drops down substantially at around 40hz. 

 
My last LCD-2 fazor does has slightly more drop than the 1st pair on the FR, but not significantly.
What is interesting, my second LCD-2 which has vegan pads has FR more similar to that of the 3rd pair.
FR itself is not sufficient to determine bass quality. If you check the CSD plot of the pre Fazor on golden ears, there is too much reverberation going in the low end while highs settle very quickly. That's why the 2.2 has too much perceived bass to be considered neutral.
 
 

A perfect comparison is a 2-way speaker vs a 3-way speaker. The 3-way speaker would sound different, and much better due to the ability to put out sub-bass frequencies.
 

 
True that with extra speaker dedicated to the lower frequencies will provide more bass. However I've had experience with poorly designed 3-way speakers with muddy and bloated bass which bleeds into the mids. There is no way to say for sure that 3 way will always be much better than 2 way speakers. Finally it all comes down to overall design of the system.
 
Anyways its little bit off topic.
 

I understand Audeze retained the sub-bass and overall bass articulation and body of the pre-fazor LCD-2 into the LCD-X.

Have you heard the X? How do you find it vs the LCD-2Fazor and pre-fazor?

 
I have not heard of the LCD-X. Have you? What's your impressions?

 

[diamondears]

Originally Posted by diamondears /img/forum/go_quote.gif

What do you mean you also hear what's in the FR graph of your LCD-2s? The FR graph of my LCD-2Fazor drops down substantially at around 40hz. 

Originally Posted by diamondears /img/forum/go_quote.gif

A perfect comparison is a 2-way speaker vs a 3-way speaker. The 3-way speaker would sound different, and much better due to the ability to put out sub-bass frequencies.

 

True that with extra speaker dedicated to the lower frequencies will provide more bass. However I've had experience with poorly designed 3-way speakers with muddy and bloated bass which bleeds into the mids. There is no way to say for sure that 3 way will always be much better than 2 way speakers. Finally it all comes down to overall design of the system.

Anyways its little bit off topic.

Originally Posted by diamondears /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I understand Audeze retained the sub-bass and overall bass articulation and body of the pre-fazor LCD-2 into the LCD-X.


Have you heard the X? How do you find it vs the LCD-2Fazor and pre-fazor?

I have not heard of the LCD-X. Have you? What's your impressions?

O2, lacks dynamics? What do you understand by "dynamics"?

No, haven't heard the LCD-X. It's on the list though. My research tells me it has the LCD-2 pre-Fazor's bass quality and articulation. It's FR graph looks very linear too. I think, and this is only my opinion, Audeze transferred that bass articulation and body from the 2 to the X; otherwise, you wouldn't differentiate the 2 from the X and justify the price increase.